BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

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“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184365
Jan 18, 2014
 
fictitious.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184366
Jan 18, 2014
 
This fiction of exterritoriality could not be erected and supported against the will of the sovereign of the territory. He is supposed to assent to it.

Does Dufus understand what fiction means?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184367
Jan 18, 2014
 
"or by a political fiction suppose him to be extraterritorial, and therefore in point of law not within the jurisdiction of the sovereign at whose court he resides,"
THE EXCHANGE V. MCFADDON, 11 U. S. 116 (1812).

extraterritorial therefore not within the jurisdiction.

USSC (1812). But Dufus knows otherwise.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

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#184368
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Now how was he under the complete jurisdiction of the Constitution, since he was a citizen of his father's country. That just don't happen, not even in "The Wizard of Oz".
Here, let's change Obama to a dual-citizen, he is still facing the same thing, his citizenship is no better than that of a naturalized citizen, he is still saddled with being subject to a foreign power.
To even change Obama to a statutory citizen he still isn't a NBC.
PROST!!!!
You cannot read into the US Constitution something that it does not say. And it does not say that two US citizen parents are required to be president. Nor does it say that a dual citizen at the time of birth cannot be president (and in fact both Woodrow Wilson and Dwight D. Eisenhower were dual citizens at their births). There is not a word in the US Constitution that says either that the US-born children of foreigners or that US-born dual citizens are not eligible to become president. Not a word.

Under strict construction (remember that?) you cannot interpret the Constitution as saying something unless it actually does says it-----and it does NOT say that two citizen parents are required or that a dual citizen is barred from becoming president. It does not say either of those things.

Under libertarian principles neither a law nor the Constitution can take away a right or a privilege unless the Constitution specifically allows that thing to be taken away. And, the Constitution does not specifically take away the right or privilege of the US-born children of foreigners to become president, and it does not take away the right or privilege of the US-born dual citizens either. It does not take away either of those things. It does not SAY any such thing.

And yet slimy Dale wants gullible people to ignore good conservative legal principles such as strict construction and good conservative moral principles such as libertarianism. Why?

The Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." And there is nothing in either the Constitution or in ANY of the writings of the men who were in the Constitutional Convention, or such other American leaders at the time as John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. There NOTHING in any of their writings that says that the US-born children of foreigners are not as eligible as the US-born children of US citizens. Nothing. But slimy Dale would like to throw out that principle too.

There is NOTHING in the US Constitution or in the writings of any of the framers that says that the US-born children of US citizens are any better than the US-born children of foreigners. NOTHING.

And yet slimy Dale thinks that he can convince a few gullible people that the writers of the US Constitution (who never said any such thing) really believed that the US-born children of foreigners (such as perhaps your father or grandfather) are really not as good citizens as the US-born children of US-citizens.

IF the writers of the Constitution had been afraid of the US-born children of foreigners, they would have said so, but they never said so, so why assume that they were afraid? Why does slimy Dale want to throw out strict construction judicial interpretation AND libertarian principles, and ALSO throw out "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"? Who says that the US-born children of foreigners are not created equal with the US born children of US citizens in terms of being eligible to be president? Only slimy Dale.
Learn to Read

Indianapolis, IN

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#184369
Jan 19, 2014
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>Enjoy? He is enthralled by his delusions.
I'm sure he wets himself often

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

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#184370
Jan 19, 2014
 
Jacques,
That Chris Christie bridge scandal has the media and many political junkies barking like a hungry pack of rabid dogs.
I see it as a local issue and haven't read anything more than an occasional headline. So I'm really not at liberty to comment on the authenticity of the crime or its perpetrators.

I'm trying to read as much as I can about Syria.
The MIT science and engineering department has published a very interesting study/report on the recent chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus, which has recently been called to my attention and is now under peer review.
wojar

Bristol, CT

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#184371
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
To base "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof" on territory would mean that the citizenship standards could be changed at anytime, would this mean if Mexico took over Texas all US citizens in Texas would lose their citizenship to the US.
Nonsense. No one would lose their citizenship. BTW, the standard of US citizenship per the 14th amendment would not be "changed". What is Dale smoking?

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

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#184372
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! An ambassador takes his country with him.
PROST!!!
He does? Well, tell that to the American Embassy hostages in Iran in 1979 . Did the personnel not have the same diplomatic immunity as the absent Ambassador ? Did they take their country to incarceration with them? How did the U.S. and the Vienna convention protect them?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184373
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Very relevant!
"all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.
LMAO!!! How long did it take to read the Bancroft Treaties, did you know we have only one country left on the list, as of 1958 all persons born in the US of alien fathers are dual-citizens
and being a dual-citizen is no better that being a naturalized citizen, both are carrying the same baggage, subject to foreign influence.
PROST!!!
Dufus Dale proclaims Play Law again: "being a dual-citizen is no better that being a naturalized citizen"

Again, Dufus Dale, how does foreign citizenship law which has no force or effect in the United States operate on the US citizenship of a person born in the US? Got a clue what no force or effect means? According to Dufus Dale, the US is not a sovereign nation. Dufus Dale cannot comprehend the fundamental flaws in his self contradictory play law reasoning.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullshit. Totally irrelevant.
Bancroft treaties concerned naturalization. Brothers Boisseliers were natural born citizens.
Sorry. Try again.
<quoted text>

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184374
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! and Obama wasn't under the complete jurisdiction of thd Constitution.
PROST!!!
He sure was. British citizenship law had no force or effect in Hawaii then or now. Does Dufus Dale think the US is a colony of the Brits?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184375
Jan 19, 2014
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Elk is very relevant, it explained all of the "W"'s, just like the framers of the 14th Citizenship Clause did.
PROST!!!
Sorry loser:

The only adjudication that has been made by
this court upon the meaning of the clause ‘and subject
to the jurisdiction thereof,’ in the leading provision
of the fourteenth amendment, is Elk v.
Wilkins, 112 U. S. 94, 5 Sup. Ct. 41, in which it
was decided that an Indian born a member of one of
the Indian tribes within the United States, which
still existed and was recognized as an Indian tribe
by the United States, who had voluntarily separated
himself from his tribe, and taken up his residence
among the white citizens of a state, but who did not
appear to have been naturalized or taxed or in any
way recognized or treated as a citizen, either by the
United States or by the state, was not a citizen of
the United States, as a person born in the United
States,‘and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’
within the meaning of the clause in question.

US v Ark (which doesn't count according to Play Law)
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, loser, quoting Elk again is not getting you anywhere. Hawaii was not an Indian reservation so Elk is irrelevant. Bancroft treaties had nothing to do with natural born citizens born in the US. Totally irrelevant.
Grow up and get a life.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

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#184376
Jan 19, 2014
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>Nonsense. No one would lose their citizenship. BTW, the standard of US citizenship per the 14th amendment would not be "changed". What is Dale smoking?
Not so much smoking as having 6 to 8 beers, to which he admitted he was allergic (gets him drunk, he said LMAO LRS-Dale tm reg'd).

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#184377
Jan 19, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Very relevant!
LMAO!!! How long did it take to read the Bancroft Treaties, did you know we have only one country left on the list, as of 1958 all persons born in the US of alien fathers are dual-citizens
and being a dual-citizen is no better that being a naturalized citizen, both are carrying the same baggage, subject to foreign influence.
PROST!!!
Sorry Dufus, a person born in the US is not a naturalized citizen and owes complete allegiance to the US per US law. There is no provision in any US treaty whereby the US cedes its jurisdiction within its borders. Foreign citizenship law has no force or effect on the US citizenship of a person born in the US, treaties notwithstanding. A law with no force or effect in the US cannot operate to create "foreign influence."

And, Dufus, there is no "foreign influence" clause in the Constitution. If there were, people would not be natural born citizens if their family had (Italian) pizza on the day they were born.

Grow up! Play Law doesn't count in the real world.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

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#184378
Jan 19, 2014
 
loose cannon wrote:
Jacques,
That Chris Christie bridge scandal has the media and many political junkies barking like a hungry pack of rabid dogs.
I see it as a local issue and haven't read anything more than an occasional headline. So I'm really not at liberty to comment on the authenticity of the crime or its perpetrators.
I'm trying to read as much as I can about Syria.
The MIT science and engineering department has published a very interesting study/report on the recent chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus, which has recently been called to my attention and is now under peer review.
Christie is only confirming that he is no better, no worse than all other politicians. If he's damaged at all, he will have no one but himself to blame.

As to Syria, Assad is horrible whilst the rebels are ...horrible. Take your pick.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

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#184379
Jan 19, 2014
 
wojar wrote:
"or by a political fiction suppose him to be extraterritorial, and therefore in point of law not within the jurisdiction of the sovereign at whose court he resides,"
THE EXCHANGE V. MCFADDON, 11 U. S. 116 (1812).
extraterritorial therefore not within the jurisdiction.
USSC (1812). But Dufus knows otherwise.
Correct.

"`no sovereignty can extend its process beyond its own territorial limits, to subject other persons or property to its judicial decisions. Every exertion of authority beyond these limits is a mere nullity, and incapable of binding such persons or property in other tribunals;'" Grover & Baker Sewing Machine Co. v. Radcliffe,137 U.S. 287, 296 (1890)

“Kenyan-born Obama=Antichrist”

Since: Sep 09

Casper, WY

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#184380
Jan 19, 2014
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
I read quite a bit thank you. Your response reveals your deep intellect and understanding of historical facts. You're obviously a liberal. My guess is you think you're always the smartest person in any room you occupy. LOL!
I almost always think that of myself and I am not a liberal, but a God-fearing, Bible-believing Truther and Birther. I act as pompous as that idoit Kenyan-born gay Moslem Obama the Antichrist thinking I am a walking encyclopedia. I even call myself "walkipedia". Fact is our history books are full of half-truths, fairytales and pabulum. The first U.S. casualty of Leyte Gulf was the light cruiser USS Honolulu which was torpedoed by a Jap plane as was an Australian vessel I believe on 19 Oct 1944A.D.
The Japs dropped bombs we sold them on Pearl Harbor which was another false-flag event like 9/11, Waco, the OKC bombing, Lusitania sinking, and The Alamo, etc.

“zero nuclear weapons”

Since: Sep 08

Perryville

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#184381
Jan 19, 2014
 
WelbyMD wrote:
<quoted text>I almost always think that of myself and I am not a liberal, but a God-fearing, Bible-believing Truther and Birther. I act as pompous as that idoit Kenyan-born gay Moslem Obama the Antichrist thinking I am a walking encyclopedia. I even call myself "walkipedia". Fact is our history books are full of half-truths, fairytales and pabulum. The first U.S. casualty of Leyte Gulf was the light cruiser USS Honolulu which was torpedoed by a Jap plane as was an Australian vessel I believe on 19 Oct 1944A.D.
The Japs dropped bombs we sold them on Pearl Harbor which was another false-flag event like 9/11, Waco, the OKC bombing, Lusitania sinking, and The Alamo, etc.
You are a hacked out nutcase. How puts these whacked out ideas into that empty space between your ears????
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#184382
Jan 19, 2014
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
So when Frank became a citizen he was a naturalized citizen? Or did Frank not become a citizen?
Frank, please take your Aricept.
Frank does not believe that someone could have became a natural born citizen when they became a born person. Frank is not working with a full deck.
I was born a Natural Born Citizen of the United States because my parents were citizens of the United States. Barack Obama's father was a Kenyan British Subject and was never a citizen of the United States. Barack Obama was born a Kenyan British Subject. In order for a Kenyan British Subject to become a United States citizen he must become a naturalized citizen.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

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#184383
Jan 19, 2014
 
VET'S BACKLASH AGAINST OBAMA, URGENT!
A movement has been started by our armed forces, to get out the vote in 2014..
They are organizing themselves, but this can be done by all of us. The
President, the Commander in Chief, has made the Rules of Engagement (ROE) so
difficult, that our troops are often killed before they can even get permission
to fight. Nothing has been done to stop our troops from being murdered by
Afghanis they are training, either. Now, the President wants the US to sign on
to the UNs International Criminal Court (ICC), which would allow the UNs ICC to
arrest and try US troops for War Crimes, without the legal protections
guaranteed under US Law, and from which there is no appeal. The President, with
his Democratic control of the Senate, has nearly all the power.

If the Non-Establishment can take back the Senate in 2014, our troops can once again
be protected from unnecessary danger. Please consider this, and send it on to
your mailing lists. Thank You and Semper Fi. Interestingly enough, when GWB was
president you heard about the the military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan
almost daily. With Obama in the White House, the mainstream media has been
strangely quiet.---More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their
lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined
total of the nine years before. Thirty died in last August. During the last
month, over 50 additional NATO and US servicemen have been murdered, inside
jobs by those who are hired to be a force for good in Afghanistan.

The commander in chief is AWOL. Nota peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half-staff for the Sikhs that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks
of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president.
It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed,
campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform.

But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive
get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special
interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact
on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at
the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between
now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking
lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the
indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.

Since: May 10

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#184384
Jan 19, 2014
 
Yep, ObamaCare is on life support and we need to pull the plug!

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