BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#174734 Oct 12, 2013
WelbyMD wrote:
<quoted text>lHey right back at ya'. Per Vattel's treatise "The Law ofNations" of 1758AD, which was repeatedly referred to by our Founding Fathers when drafting our Constitution, a 'natural-born citizen' is "born in the country of parents who are citizens of that country". Also see definition cited by Supreme Court Justice Peter V. Daniel in the Dred Scot case which is verbatim the exact same definition. Kenyan-born Obama IS the Antichrist. So get saved now while there is still time!
Re Vattel. It is true, they did read Vattel. HOWEVER, they read a lot of other books too. Vattel was an expert on International Law, elections and the eligibility of candidates are DOMESTIC Law. Vattel recommended several things that we did not follow, such as every country having its own state religion and forcing people to join it or force them to leave the country. So, duh, just the fact that they READ Vattel does not mean that they used Vattel in the definition of Natural Born Citizen.

IF the writers of the Constitution had used Vattel, they would have SAID that they used Vattel, but they never did---not one of them. And, in fact, Vattel is not even mentioned once in the Federalist Papers, while the common law is mentioned about twenty times. John Jay, who first mentioned Natural Born Citizen in his letter to George Washington, was a specialist in THE COMMON LAW. So, duh, he also would have said that he was using Vattel, IF he had used Vattel. And, finally, we have the quotations from the AMERICAN legal scholars of the time that the Constitution was written, and they used the term Natural Born Citizen just the way that Natural Born Subject was used in the common law.

"Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might be divided into two classes: natural born citizens, or those born within the state, and aliens, or such as were born out of it. The first, by their birth-right, became entitled to all the privileges of citizens; the second, were entitled to none, but such as were held out and given by the laws of the respective states prior to their emigration....St. George Tucker, BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.(1803)

(As you can see, that refers ONLY to the place of birth, not to the parents.)

"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."---William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed.(1829)

(As you can see, Rawle, who was friends with both Washington and Franklin and knew many of the writers of the US Constitution, says that EVERY child born in the USA is a Natural Born Citizen. That is exactly what the Wong Kim Ark Supreme Court case ruled, six to two [one justice did not vote].)

Re "born in Kenya."

That is a totally loony myth. Did you know that only 21 people came to the USA from Kenya in 1961, and that all but one of them came by SHIP (and the one that came by air was not a US citizen). And did you know that there were no regular ships from Kenya to Hawaii in 1961?

The “born in Kenya” story is the height of the loony side of the birther movement. It is based on forgeries like that of Lucas D. Smith, and falsifications–such as the claim that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya—when she actually said right on the same tape that he was born IN HAWAII, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter FROM HAWAII.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#174735 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see you accepting the fact Obobblehead is a liar. Progress!
That is not what I said. Not being transparent means not releasing information. It does not mean lying. People might give some small amount of respect to birthers if the birthers would at least quote people accurately.

And, since you have brought up the subject of lying. Birthers have done a great deal of it, an enormous amount of lying.

For example, birther sites did not tell their readers that there isn't even evidence that Obama's mother had a passport in 1961---a lie by omission. They did not tell their readers that the Kenyan government said that there is no evidence that Obama was born there---another lie by omission.

They did not tell their readers that millions of people have errors in their SS numbers, another lie by omission since they hope that their readers will assume that Obama's CT SS number was caused by fraud and not a mistake. And, obviously, the motive of birther sites in hoping that their readers do not know that millions of people have errors in their SS numbers is exactly the same as their motive for LYING about what Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said (she NEVER said that he was born in Kenya, birther sites simply said that she had said it), and their motive for repeatedly LYING in their claim that Obama’s BC is forged, and the motive for the Cold Case Posse LYING about the meaning of the penciled numeral “9,” and the motive for birther sites lying when they said that the current governor of Hawaii said that he could not find the BC in the files (he never said any such thing), and their motive for lying when they said that Obama’s lawyer “admitted” that Obama’s BC was forged (she never said any such thing), and the motive for claiming that Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, and the motive for Tim Adams LYING when he said that officials had told him that Obama’s BC was not in the files, and the motive for the three forged “Kenyan birth certificates,” and the motive for the forged videos that claim that Obama said “I was born in Kenya.”

Talk about LIARS.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#174736 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174737 Oct 12, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not what I said. Not being transparent means not releasing information. It does not mean lying. People might give some small amount of respect to birthers if the birthers would at least quote people accurately.
And, since you have brought up the subject of lying. Birthers have done a great deal of it, an enormous amount of lying.
For example, birther sites did not tell their readers that there isn't even evidence that Obama's mother had a passport in 1961---a lie by omission. They did not tell their readers that the Kenyan government said that there is no evidence that Obama was born there---another lie by omission.
They did not tell their readers that millions of people have errors in their SS numbers, another lie by omission since they hope that their readers will assume that Obama's CT SS number was caused by fraud and not a mistake. And, obviously, the motive of birther sites in hoping that their readers do not know that millions of people have errors in their SS numbers is exactly the same as their motive for LYING about what Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said (she NEVER said that he was born in Kenya, birther sites simply said that she had said it), and their motive for repeatedly LYING in their claim that Obama’s BC is forged, and the motive for the Cold Case Posse LYING about the meaning of the penciled numeral “9,” and the motive for birther sites lying when they said that the current governor of Hawaii said that he could not find the BC in the files (he never said any such thing), and their motive for lying when they said that Obama’s lawyer “admitted” that Obama’s BC was forged (she never said any such thing), and the motive for claiming that Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, and the motive for Tim Adams LYING when he said that officials had told him that Obama’s BC was not in the files, and the motive for the three forged “Kenyan birth certificates,” and the motive for the forged videos that claim that Obama said “I was born in Kenya.”
Talk about LIARS.
Give it up, dodo bird! He is a fraud and liar. Get used to it because he isn't going to change. You know, after hearing excuse after excuse, one reaches a point and is able to say BS! Guess you haven't made it there yet. It's commonly know as, COMMON SENSE! sock

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#174739 Oct 12, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Re Vattel. It is true, they did read Vattel. HOWEVER, they read a lot of other books too. Vattel was an expert on International Law, elections and the eligibility of candidates are DOMESTIC Law. Vattel recommended several things that we did not follow, such as every country having its own state religion and forcing people to join it or force them to leave the country. So, duh, just the fact that they READ Vattel does not mean that they used Vattel in the definition of Natural Born Citizen.
I agree.

Of course the founding fathers were familiar with Vattel who was a scholar on INTERNATIONAL LAW; however as to MUNICIPAL LAW or DOMESTIC LAW he was not the source of our statutes regarding citizenship which is in the providence of a nation's municipal law.“Citizenship depends, however, entirely on municipal law and is not regulated by international law.“ Tomasicchio v. Acheson, 98 F. Supp. 166, 169 (DC 1951).

Moreover, the United States Supreme Court has held that our citizenship laws were inherited from English common law. "Our concept of citizenship was inherited from England and, accordingly, was based on the principle that rights conferred by naturalization were subject to the conditions reserved in the grant. See Calvin's Case, 7 Co. Rep. 1 a, 77 Eng. Rep. 377 (1608). Schneider v. Rusk, 377 US 163, 170 (1964).

“We thus have an acknowledgment that our law in this area follows English concepts with an acceptance of the jus soli, that is, that the place of birth governs citizenship status except as modified by statute.” Rogers v. Bellei, 401 US 815,828(1971)

Nowhere in over 200 years of court opinions have had any court suggested that our citizenship law was based on Vattel's concept of citizenship. In fact, there are many court cases that held that children born in the United States to parents other than citizen parents are natural born citizens. "Petitioners Marian and Lenuta Mustata are citizens of Romania. At the time of their petition, they resided in Michigan with their two minor children, who are natural born citizens of the United States. Mustata v. US Dept. of Justice, 179 F. 3d 1017, 1019 (6th Cir. 1999).

As for the drafting of the Constitution, Blackstone's influence is noted throughout the document, such as, Law of Nations clause in which it was noted: ""In the fourth volume of his Commentaries, Blackstone has a chapter on “Offences against the Law of Nations.” Guided by Blackstone, the Founding Generation viewed the law of nations as a system of rules deducible by natural reason, and established by universal consent among the civilized inhabitants of the world. Justice Story would later put it,“every doctrine that may be fairly deduced by correct reasoning from the rights and duties of nations, and the nature of moral obligation, may be said to exist in the law of nations.” 3 Dartmouth C. Undergraduate J.L. 51 (2005)

Another example of Blackstone' influence "The universal maxim of the common law of England, as Sir William Blackstone expresses it,`that no man is to be brought into jeopardy of his life more than once for the same offence,' is embraced in article V of amendments to the Constitution of the United States, and in the constitutions of several States, in the following language:`Nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;' and in many other States the same principle is incorporated in the organic law, Kepner v. United States, 195 US 100, 132 (1904)

As for Vattel's contribution to the Constitution, there has not been one decision in which a court has cited Vattel's influence on drafting of the CONSTITUTION. This is not to say that courts have not cited Vattel on the INTERNATIONAL LAW in which his book "Law of Nations" have been cited by the courts but as to the CONSTITUTION AND MUNICIPAL LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES, Vattel's influence was nonexistent.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#174740 Oct 12, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Re Vattel. It is true, they did read Vattel. HOWEVER, they read a lot of other books too. Vattel was an expert on International Law, elections and the eligibility of candidates are DOMESTIC Law. Vattel recommended several things that we did not follow, such as every country having its own state religion and forcing people to join it or force them to leave the country. So, duh, just the fact that they READ Vattel does not mean that they used Vattel in the definition of Natural Born Citizen.
I agree.
Of course the founding fathers were familiar with Vattel who was a scholar on INTERNATIONAL LAW; however as to MUNICIPAL LAW or DOMESTIC LAW he was not the source of our statutes regarding citizenship which is in the providence of a nation's municipal law.“Citizenship depends, however, entirely on municipal law and is not regulated by international law.“ Tomasicchio v. Acheson, 98 F. Supp. 166, 169 (DC 1951).

Moreover, the United States Supreme Court has held that our citizenship laws were inherited from English common law. "Our concept of citizenship was inherited from England and, accordingly, was based on the principle that rights conferred by naturalization were subject to the conditions reserved in the grant. See Calvin's Case, 7 Co. Rep. 1 a, 77 Eng. Rep. 377 (1608). Schneider v. Rusk, 377 US 163, 170 (1964).

“We thus have an acknowledgment that our law in this area follows English concepts with an acceptance of the jus soli, that is, that the place of birth governs citizenship status except as modified by statute.” Rogers v. Bellei, 401 US 815,828(1971)

Nowhere in over 200 years of court opinions have had any court suggested that our citizenship law was based on Vattel's concept of citizenship. In fact, there are many court cases that held that children born in the United States to parents other than citizen parents are natural born citizens. "Petitioners Marian and Lenuta Mustata are citizens of Romania. At the time of their petition, they resided in Michigan with their two minor children, who are natural born citizens of the United States. Mustata v. US Dept. of Justice, 179 F. 3d 1017, 1019 (6th Cir. 1999).

As for the drafting of the Constitution, Blackstone's influence is noted throughout the document, such as, Law of Nations clause in which it was noted: ""In the fourth volume of his Commentaries, Blackstone has a chapter on “Offences against the Law of Nations.” Guided by Blackstone, the Founding Generation viewed the law of nations as a system of rules deducible by natural reason, and established by universal consent among the civilized inhabitants of the world. Justice Story would later put it,“every doctrine that may be fairly deduced by correct reasoning from the rights and duties of nations, and the nature of moral obligation, may be said to exist in the law of nations.” 3 Dartmouth C. Undergraduate J.L. 51 (2005)

Another example of Blackstone' influence "The universal maxim of the common law of England, as Sir William Blackstone expresses it,`that no man is to be brought into jeopardy of his life more than once for the same offence,' is embraced in article V of amendments to the Constitution of the United States, and in the constitutions of several States, in the following language:`Nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;' and in many other States the same principle is incorporated in the organic law, Kepner v. United States, 195 US 100, 132 (1904)

As for Vattel's contribution to the Constitution, there has not been one decision in which a court has cited Vattel's influence on drafting of the CONSTITUTION. This is not to say that courts have not cited Vattel on the INTERNATIONAL LAW in which his book "Law of Nations" have been cited by the courts but as to the CONSTITUTION AND MUNICIPAL LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES, Vattel's influence was nonexistent
Learn to Read

Columbus, IN

#174741 Oct 12, 2013
Scrutiny wrote:
<quoted text>I don't get what they don't comprehend about this.

Why in the hell would you look to entertain negotiations with people who broke their word with you over the same subject?

"Why won't he compromise?"

He did. In July.
These fools can't grasp "Born in Hawaii". Asking them to comprehend "yes that WAS the deal but then we decided to take a stand instead" is way beyond their capacity.
Learn to Read

Columbus, IN

#174742 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>You mean the truth doesn't fit into your BS folder? LMAO!
You mean Mario's fable doesn't fit into US law? That truth?

Poor Romper. You really new a new hero
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174744 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174745 Oct 12, 2013
Learn to Read wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean Mario's fable doesn't fit into US law? That truth?
Poor Romper. You really new a new hero
new a new?:)
Learn to Read

Columbus, IN

#174746 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>new a new?:)
Romper found a new link to the same tired fable rejected by every court in the land. Romper is easily fooled
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174747 Oct 12, 2013
Learn to Read wrote:
<quoted text>
Romper found a new link to the same tired fable rejected by every court in the land. Romper is easily fooled
Resorting to shooting the messenger, huh? How big of you. Maybe you should buy a larger BS folder? LMAO!
Learn to Read

Columbus, IN

#174748 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>Resorting to shooting the messenger, huh? How big of you. Maybe you should buy a larger BS folder? LMAO!
The message was dead years ago. But at least your links actually work. I'm sure Jercque will send you a gold star
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174749 Oct 12, 2013
Learn to Read wrote:
<quoted text>
The message was dead years ago. But at least your links actually work. I'm sure Jercque will send you a gold star
:)
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174750 Oct 12, 2013
Please refer to the smiley face symbol ":)" for the below.

Are the dots supposed to be eyes or nostrils?:)
Learn to Read

Columbus, IN

#174751 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
Please refer to the smiley face symbol ":)" for the below.

Are the dots supposed to be eyes or nostrils?:)
Deep questions from Romper
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174752 Oct 12, 2013
Learn to Read wrote:
<quoted text>
Deep questions from Romper
Yea, thought I'd probe the deeper side of this forum. Thanks for the input. Oh wait, you didn't give any! So, what are they? I say nostrils.:)
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#174753 Oct 12, 2013
I'll leave you to ponder that for awhile.

“Arm the homeless!”

Since: Jul 12

The internet

#174754 Oct 12, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
Hey Scruff, why don't you quit spreading lies?
The thing about being brilliant is that you don't have to lie.

Here is a publicly issued challenge for you Mr. Justice.

Prove anything I have said is a lie. Show people you don't just open your mouth and allow anything at all to roll out.

In all of my time here, I have yet to see you prove anything at all. So, I will define it for you.

Prove: demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence.

Unverified assertions are the biggest guns you possess. And I am willing to bet you can't up your arsenal for even one measly post.

And you have a clear advantage here, as I have zero clue what you think I am lying about.

So, here is your challenge Justice. If you can manage to PROVE I have lied about anything I will not only apologize... I will bestow my 2016 presidential election ballot to you. You will dictate who I vote for. It is supposedly our most precious freedom and I am willing to part with it... if you can manage to back up your words just once.

Challenge issued, advantage is yours...

OR... you can back down as you do every time you are outsmarted, outclassed and outdone.

You know, pretend it is all a ruse I fell for... another one of your esoteric traps.

So, I am excited to hear from you. I expect a healthy debate with a worthy opponent. Don't disappoint us.

Unless...
You were being dishonest when you accused me of lying...right?

I don't expect you will take my challenge even though you have the advantage, nothing at all to lose and an opportunity to put me in my place.

That is the other thing about being brilliant. You can pretty much see what is coming next.

Good luck.

And remember....EVIDENCE!
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#174755 Oct 12, 2013
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical that Rogue would rush to the defence of Tobacco barons, they who KNEW that nicotine, tar, and other cancerous junk in their product were lethal, yet they even had phoney doctors advertise the goodness and purity of smoking their "coffin nails". So much of their own evidence destroyed, it's on record, how they misled the public, specially our youth. They have now developed the "smokeless" cigarette, death to all still, smokers and contact smokers alike, no change, but they are stealthy, like Rogue's favourite and unseen airplane killers. Two provinces are suing the tobacco killers here now, billions of $. Hope they win. Rogue is a serf, he serves his palatial masters, lives under their walls, gives them ransom crops and defends them against all "enemies".
You have it exactly right as usual.

Rogue and the rightwingers are trained to believe someday they Too will also become Millionaires and Billionaires like Limbaugh, Fox News Anchors and the Koch Brothers.

There is no such thing as healthy tar and healthy nicotine.

Same as Clean Coal, No Such Thing.

Yet the Coal industry spends millions trying to sell that concept.

And the oil companies spend much more trying to deny climate change.

As you already know.

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