BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...
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“Facts trump speculation”

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RationalState

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#173949
Oct 4, 2013
 

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Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, in 1868 the law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens/foreign powers.
Every court case since 1898 dealing with citizenship has been in violation of the Constitution.
Looks like the congress has a monumental task in their future and of course we know how that will turnout, just as it has in the past 115 years. "Kick the can down the road!"
The law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens? And nobody knew it? Not the framers, not the Congress. Not the President. Not the people at large? All the children of alien German immigrants in Pennsylvania retained their US citizenship. There is not one case of a single person born of an alien parent in the US who lost US citizenship on account having an alien parent (other than Indians born on a reservation). The only persons who the government attempted to excluded were Chinese (Look Tin Sing and Wong Kim Ark in particular) and they were found to be natural born citizens.

Looks like Dufus Dale is still living in his dream world.

Nobody but nobody before or after the 14th Amendment has ever believed in Dale's fanciful disjointed and contradictory application of the word, jurisdiction. Yet he believes his fantasy should be applied as the Congressional intent of the Amendment. Positively psychotic.

So if the framers of the 14th and the Congress were so enlightened as the brilliant-in-his-own-mind Dale they would have understood what jurisdiction really meant so that's what we should apply now?

That's so pathetic it's not funny. It's sad. So delusional.

“Facts trump speculation”

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RationalState

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#173950
Oct 4, 2013
 

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Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! It is very evident you haven't any idea what controls these United States, without this control you are left with 50 separate nations.
Too bad Rep. Bingham and Senators Trumbull and Howard are not alive today. If they were Dale could tell them what they really meant when they fashioned the 14th Amendment and he could give them a lesson on the true meaning of "jurisdiction" which apparently no one else in the world has ever understood.

What a friggin' lunatic.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.

“Facts trump speculation”

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RationalState

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#173951
Oct 4, 2013
 

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Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! It is very evident you haven't any idea what controls these United States, without this control you are left with 50 separate nations.
Well it's not controlling Dale. he has his foil hat on!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173952
Oct 4, 2013
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! Formal definition of jurisdiction, everyone know that the jurisdiction over the US is the Constitution. We are a Constitutional Republic, this means the Constitution has jurisdiction over the US and all branches of government.
Fact it you got schooled.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173953
Oct 4, 2013
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens? And nobody knew it? Not the framers, not the Congress. Not the President. Not the people at large? All the children of alien German immigrants in Pennsylvania retained their US citizenship. There is not one case of a single person born of an alien parent in the US who lost US citizenship on account having an alien parent (other than Indians born on a reservation). The only persons who the government attempted to excluded were Chinese (Look Tin Sing and Wong Kim Ark in particular) and they were found to be natural born citizens.
Looks like Dufus Dale is still living in his dream world.
Nobody but nobody before or after the 14th Amendment has ever believed in Dale's fanciful disjointed and contradictory application of the word, jurisdiction. Yet he believes his fantasy should be applied as the Congressional intent of the Amendment. Positively psychotic.
So if the framers of the 14th and the Congress were so enlightened as the brilliant-in-his-own-mind Dale they would have understood what jurisdiction really meant so that's what we should apply now?
That's so pathetic it's not funny. It's sad. So delusional.
You got schooled and now you are trying to save face!
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173954
Oct 4, 2013
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it's not controlling Dale. he has his foil hat on!
<quoted text>
You got schooled and don't know how to handle it.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173955
Oct 4, 2013
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad Rep. Bingham and Senators Trumbull and Howard are not alive today. If they were Dale could tell them what they really meant when they fashioned the 14th Amendment and he could give them a lesson on the true meaning of "jurisdiction" which apparently no one else in the world has ever understood.
What a friggin' lunatic.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! You really must find out what the Constitution is for, without it you haven't a United States of America, so be very careful how you treat it, you might be on the shitty end of the stick.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#173956
Oct 4, 2013
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>The only people I have known without a country was the black man in the US and to this day, they still don't know. They call themselves African/American, there isn't any such country called Africa or America.
There are many stateless people in the world. The fact that Dufus is ignorant doesn't change that fact.

It is not the alien's relationship with a foreign country that makes him an alien but his lack of tie to the country he resides in that makes him an alien. For this reason it wouldn't matter if 100 countries considered Obama as a citizen when he was born. All that matters is according to US law he was born a US citizen. He was born with the tie of natural allegiance (allegiance by birth) by birth on US soil.

Natural allegiance “In American law, That allegiance due from citizens of the United States to their native or adopted country, and which, it seems, cannot be renounced without the permission of government, to be declared by law. 2 Kent’s Com. 43-49.” Alexander Mansfield Burrill, 2 A Law Dictionary and Glossary, at 220 (2nd ed. 1870).
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173957
Oct 4, 2013
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many stateless people in the world. The fact that Dufus is ignorant doesn't change that fact.
It is not the alien's relationship with a foreign country that makes him an alien but his lack of tie to the country he resides in that makes him an alien. For this reason it wouldn't matter if 100 countries considered Obama as a citizen when he was born. All that matters is according to US law he was born a US citizen. He was born with the tie of natural allegiance (allegiance by birth) by birth on US soil.
Natural allegiance “In American law, That allegiance due from citizens of the United States to their native or adopted country, and which, it seems, cannot be renounced without the permission of government, to be declared by law. 2 Kent’s Com. 43-49.” Alexander Mansfield Burrill, 2 A Law Dictionary and Glossary, at 220 (2nd ed. 1870).
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! I couldn't careless how many stateless people are in the word, the only people that are subject to the jurisdiction, thereof are US Citizens.
Obama was born a citizen of his father's country, with citizenship comes the natural allegiance, whether born in Kenya or the US.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#173958
Oct 4, 2013
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Formal definition of jurisdiction, everyone know that the jurisdiction over the US is the Constitution. We are a Constitutional Republic, this means the Constitution has jurisdiction over the US and all branches of government.
Fact it you got schooled.
Crash and burn. Pathetic.

A country has a certain jurisdiction whether it is a constitutional republic, monarchy, or other form of government. A definition of jurisdiction of a government is not dependent on any particular form of government. See for example the definition in Black's Law Dictionary.

jurisdiction, n.(14c) 1. A government's general power to exercise authority over all persons and things within its territory;

The Constitution makes reference to the jurisdiction of the United States.(Does Dufus believe this is a self-reference to the constitution?) Dale seems incapable of defining the jurisdiction of the United States; rather he conflates the terms constitution and jurisdiction. While authority to exercise power flows from the constitution, jurisdiction i.e., the actual power to exercise within the dominion is not a document. The limits of a jurisdiction are not the four corners of a document but a territory over which dominion is exercised.

He seems to believe that the jurisdiction of the United States, the power to exercise authority within its borders is limited to its own citizens. This turns the notion of sovereignty on its head. A country needs no permission from a foreign power to govern within its own borders.

Dale needs to get educated and to grow up.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#173959
Oct 4, 2013
 
John Kenney wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =WHbLi5E-QBQ
i can get you a Legit United States Passport and Australia Passport.
When I was in Kuala Lumpur there was someone selling passports for any where,there was also a guy laying on the sidewalk with fake blood on his leg waiting for visitors to give him money. The locals just stepped over him,visitors looked to see that it was fake blood then pretended like they didn't notice he was blocking the sidewalk.
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#173960
Oct 4, 2013
 
Therealnews com wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really believe Congress represents people like yourself then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you for a very reasonable price.
Representatives in the House are elected as the representatives of the people and Senators are elected to represent each state. Our countries political system is broken,but bureaucrats are even worse than Democrats.
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#173961
Oct 4, 2013
 
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which has absolutely no effect whatever. Every child born on US soil is a Natural Born US Citizen except for the children of foreign diplomats. Every child, every child regardless of the citizenship of the parents at the time of birth.
"Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.”---Senator Lindsay Graham (December 11, 2008 letter to constituents)

Answer: All human institutions and people make mistakes. The ultimate decision-maker on the US Constitution is a constitutional amendment, which requires a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress and a three-quarters vote of the state legislatures. Until that comes along, the decision of the US Supreme Court is the final legal interpretation.
A reversal of the US Supreme Court ruling by a Constitutional Amendment or by the court reversing itself is far from likely in the immediate future (or even in the distant future), since so many legal scholars and appeals courts support what the Wong Kim Ark ruling said, and since the Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal (and if the writers of the US Constitution had intended to make an exception to that, they surely would have told us).
Rep. Bingham was considered the expert on this subject and contrary to your repeated comments,he completely disagreed with your statement. Rep. Bingham would not consider Obama as being eligible to serve that office. You should read up on his position before you cherry pick his statement. If Rexall has a Buy one bottle of Listerine,get a bottle of Listerine free does not mean that you can simply cut ( get a bottle of Listerine free ) and paste and not pay anything for a bottle of Listerine.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173962
Oct 4, 2013
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many stateless people in the world. The fact that Dufus is ignorant doesn't change that fact.
It is not the alien's relationship with a foreign country that makes him an alien but his lack of tie to the country he resides in that makes him an alien. For this reason it wouldn't matter if 100 countries considered Obama as a citizen when he was born. All that matters is according to US law he was born a US citizen. He was born with the tie of natural allegiance (allegiance by birth) by birth on US soil.
Natural allegiance “In American law, That allegiance due from citizens of the United States to their native or adopted country, and which, it seems, cannot be renounced without the permission of government, to be declared by law. 2 Kent’s Com. 43-49.” Alexander Mansfield Burrill, 2 A Law Dictionary and Glossary, at 220 (2nd ed. 1870).
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! What does WKA v. US say about citizenship of other countries, just thought I would let you know!

(Para. 34) Nor can it be doubted that it is the inherent right of every independent nation to determine for itself, and according to its own constitution and laws, what classes of persons shall be entitled to its citizenship.

Yep, Ark was born a citizen of China in the US and of course that would mean he wasn't eligible for citizenship in the US.

In 1866 we made the decision to not give citizenship to those that were subject to foreign powers and it was carried over into the 14th amendment with the clause "and subject to the jurisdiction, thereof" and everyone knows that an alien has never been subject to the jurisdiction of the US Constitution, only citizens enjoy that right.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#173963
Oct 4, 2013
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Formal definition of jurisdiction, everyone know that the jurisdiction over the US is the Constitution. We are a Constitutional Republic, this means the Constitution has jurisdiction over the US and all branches of government.
Fact it you got schooled.
The constitution has no power to exercise authority and is therefore not a jurisdiction. Authority flows from the constitution but it is the government that exercises authority. Thus the "jurisdiction of the United States" refers to the general power of the government to exercise authority over all persons and things within its territory.

The United States HAS jurisdiction which is a certain defined power within its territory. A document and a government's actual power are two very different subjects which the borfoon conflates.

Poor Dufus has not even addressed the essential elements of jurisdiction. Power, authority, and territory.

Pathetically psychotic.
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#173964
Oct 4, 2013
 

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wojar wrote:
And the ACA also upheld by USSC. Sorry if your grandkids didn't get ice cream every day.
ObamaKare was illegally passed with out a single vote from any Republican. Nearly eighty percent of the people in this country do not want an part of Obama's signature bill.
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173965
Oct 4, 2013
 
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Crash and burn. Pathetic.
A country has a certain jurisdiction whether it is a constitutional republic, monarchy, or other form of government. A definition of jurisdiction of a government is not dependent on any particular form of government. See for example the definition in Black's Law Dictionary.
jurisdiction, n.(14c) 1. A government's general power to exercise authority over all persons and things within its territory;
The Constitution makes reference to the jurisdiction of the United States.(Does Dufus believe this is a self-reference to the constitution?) Dale seems incapable of defining the jurisdiction of the United States; rather he conflates the terms constitution and jurisdiction. While authority to exercise power flows from the constitution, jurisdiction i.e., the actual power to exercise within the dominion is not a document. The limits of a jurisdiction are not the four corners of a document but a territory over which dominion is exercised.
He seems to believe that the jurisdiction of the United States, the power to exercise authority within its borders is limited to its own citizens. This turns the notion of sovereignty on its head. A country needs no permission from a foreign power to govern within its own borders.
Dale needs to get educated and to grow up.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! The Constitution is the law that binds us into a nation, keep on violating it, soon there won't be a USA, just 50 different nations.
Frank

Spokane, WA

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#173966
Oct 4, 2013
 

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Dale wrote:
<quoted text>The only people I have known without a country was the black man in the US and to this day, they still don't know. They call themselves African/American, there isn't any such country called Africa or America.
Barack Obama is Kenyan/American and is not a descendent of any (African/American) that lived in the United States before The Civil War.

“Facts trump speculation”

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RationalState

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#173967
Oct 4, 2013
 
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! I couldn't careless how many stateless people are in the word, the only people that are subject to the jurisdiction, thereof are US Citizens.
Obama was born a citizen of his father's country, with citizenship comes the natural allegiance, whether born in Kenya or the US.
So Dufus doesn't care how many stateless people there are? Pretty odd since he was so hot and bothered about getting an answer about which country was an alien's country though seemingly unaware that there need be no country.

Duh!

Simply saying so doesn't make it so. Neither the founders nor the framers of the 14th Amendment believed in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the intent of Congress according to their words as construed by the US courts that determines the meaning of the 14th Amendment and not some silly disjointed meaningless rambling babble from an uneducated grandiose psycho.

And Dufus has it arse backwards. Natural born citizenship derives from the tie of natural allegiance according to the law as understood in this country since its founding. Dufus cannot change that by simply saying otherwise.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many stateless people in the world. The fact that Dufus is ignorant doesn't change that fact.
It is not the alien's relationship with a foreign country that makes him an alien but his lack of tie to the country he resides in that makes him an alien. For this reason it wouldn't matter if 100 countries considered Obama as a citizen when he was born. All that matters is according to US law he was born a US citizen. He was born with the tie of natural allegiance (allegiance by birth) by birth on US soil.
Natural allegiance “In American law, That allegiance due from citizens of the United States to their native or adopted country, and which, it seems, cannot be renounced without the permission of government, to be declared by law. 2 Kent’s Com. 43-49.” Alexander Mansfield Burrill, 2 A Law Dictionary and Glossary, at 220 (2nd ed. 1870).
<quoted text>
Dale

Hutchinson, KS

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#173968
Oct 4, 2013
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The constitution has no power to exercise authority and is therefore not a jurisdiction. Authority flows from the constitution but it is the government that exercises authority. Thus the "jurisdiction of the United States" refers to the general power of the government to exercise authority over all persons and things within its territory.
The United States HAS jurisdiction which is a certain defined power within its territory. A document and a government's actual power are two very different subjects which the borfoon conflates.
Poor Dufus has not even addressed the essential elements of jurisdiction. Power, authority, and territory.
Pathetically psychotic.
LMAO!!! If that were so, the states can start making the citizens, again!
LMAOI!!! The Constitution is the government, we are a Constitutional Republic, therefore we are governed by the Constitution (under its jurisdiction), like it or not.

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