BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173880 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! The 14th amendment has plainly stated who are citizens of the US, either born or naturalized and Obama does not conform to either category.
There are requirements to be a citizen, so with those requirements the Constitution has created a citizen.
The 14th amendment was not created from the English common law as can be found in the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the debates of the 14th amendment.
You're babbling Dufus. The 14th Amendment formalized the "National Law" described by Judge Lewis Sandford in Lynch v. Clarke and cited in numerous state and federal citizenship cases thereafter. Citizenship by birth in the country has been the law since day 1 of the republic. The underlying principle of citizenship by birth in the country is and always has been rooted in English Common Law.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution creates neither natural born nor naturalized citizens.
Currently it it the US Attorney General who is vested with authority to naturalize persons per statute.
Natural born citizens are "created" by Nature, and the Founders recognized this principle derived from Natural Law as embodied in English Common Law.
The Constitution recognizes both citizens and persons but creates neither.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173881 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer: John Jay, an expert in the common law, was using the term exactly the way that it was in the common law, and if he were NOT using the definition of Natural Born that he was familiar with in the common law, he would have said so.
And the meaning of Natural Born Citizen in the common law includes every child born in the country except for the children of foreign diplomats.
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
LMAO!!!

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

(* supreme power or authority)

"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" Civil Rights act of 1866

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#173882 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And everyone born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is subject to its jurisdiction. As one of the key writers of the 14th Amendment, Bingham, said:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
That is why with the exception of a few birther lawyers and other nuts, all the legal scholars and appeals courts agree with Bingham that every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born US Citizen.
Some examples:
"Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.”---Senator Lindsay Graham (December 11, 2008 letter to constituents)
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.”(Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)--Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President ..."---- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005)[Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
"Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other.“Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning."---The Wall Street Journal ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297 ...)
More reading on the subject:
http://www.fredthompsonsamerica.com/2012/07/3 ...
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyiname ...
http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obama ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-cit ...
http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_eviden ...
Also, as noted above, the Declaration of Independence said: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal....."
That means that unless the Constitution specifically says that the US-born children of foreigners are NOT entitled to become president, they are created equal with the US-born children of US citizens. And the Constitution does not specifically, or in any way, say that the US-born children of foreigners are not entitled to become president.
You cannot read into the Constitution something that is not there. And there isn't a single word IN the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president.
I wonder, are children born in the United States by C section eligible to run for President. After all its not a "Natural-Born" Birth?

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#173883 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
In this case, the three branches are in complete harmony. Obama's election was conducted by the US ELECTORAL COLLEGE, not one of whose members changed her or his vote from Obama to McCain or Obama to Mitt Romney out of the nutty idea that Obama was born in a foreign country or the crazy legal theory that two US citizen parents are required in order to be a Natural Born Citizen. Obama's election was confirmed by the US Congress twice, without a single member raising an objection. The former president of the USA, George Bush, was asked about Obama's eligibility, and said that he had no problem with it. Obama was sworn in repeatedly by the Chief Justice of the USA, and NINE appeals courts all ruled that Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen and the US Supreme Court turned down an appeal of one of those nine cases, which had ruled that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen includes every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats.
As Bingham put it:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
And the key point remains that there is not a single word in the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president. Not a word.
I have noticed now that the darling of the tea party, Ted Cruz is showing Presidential aspirations, the whole birther issue seems to have gone off the radar
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173885 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4. The authority to establish legislation governing naturalization is vested in Congress which in turn delegated the authority to the Attorney General per 8 USC § 1421 (a).
The 14th Amendment requires aliens to be under the jurisdiction of the United States in order to be naturalized in the United States. While under the jurisdiction of the United States aliens are subject to US law, including naturalization law per Art 1 Sec 8 Cl 4. The amendment and the clause are in perfect harmony.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173886 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!!
Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]
(* supreme power or authority)
"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" Civil Rights act of 1866
That is what Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said in 1869:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173887 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You keep forgetting that comma, don't you.
Oh, where is that answer to my question I ask you the other day?
"What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"
It is Dufus Dale who cannot comprehend the use of the comma.

"He prefers apples, oranges, fruits of the land to others." Only an idiot would think the comma before fruits distinguishes "fruits of the land" from apples and oranges. Similarly only an idiotic birfoon would think the comma preceding children of ambassadors distinguishes them from foreigners and aliens.

As Dufus Dale has not learned simple English grammar and syntax through his entire life it is evident he will never comprehend the mysteries [hee hee] of the comma.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
One way for a foreigner or alien to be born in this country is to be born the child of a foreign ambassador (as plainly stated in the quote Dufus Dale does not comprehend).

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173889 Oct 4, 2013
[QUOTE who="Dale"
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You keep forgetting that comma, don't you.
Oh, where is that answer to my question I ask you the other day?
"What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"[/QUOTE]

The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.

From Black's Law Dictionary:

alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;

Got any more simpleton questions?
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173890 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
That is your view, but it is wrong. Everyone in the USA except for foreign diplomats is subject to the jurisdiction of US law. Your repeating and repeating of the nutty claim does not make it correct.

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173891 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
You're babbling Dufus. The 14th Amendment formalized the "National Law" described by Judge Lewis Sandford in Lynch v. Clarke and cited in numerous state and federal citizenship cases thereafter. Citizenship by birth in the country has been the law since day 1 of the republic. The underlying principle of citizenship by birth in the country is and always has been rooted in English Common Law.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! You forgot one thing, the States don't make the citizens, do they.

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

(*) supreme power or authority

"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens".(Civil Rights Act of 1866)

Now where is your English common law?

Where is the answer to the question I ask you?
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173892 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
It is Dufus Dale who cannot comprehend the use of the comma.
"He prefers apples, oranges, fruits of the land to others." Only an idiot would think the comma before fruits distinguishes "fruits of the land" from apples and oranges. Similarly only an idiotic birfoon would think the comma preceding children of ambassadors distinguishes them from foreigners and aliens.
As Dufus Dale has not learned simple English grammar and syntax through his entire life it is evident he will never comprehend the mysteries [hee hee] of the comma.
<quoted text>
What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"

“Kenyan-born Obama=Antichrist”

Since: Sep 09

Casper, WY

#173893 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.
From Black's Law Dictionary:
alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;
Got any more simpleton questions?
So is Kenyan-born Obama a man without a country?
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173894 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You forgot one thing, the States don't make the citizens, do they.
Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]
(*) supreme power or authority
"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens".(Civil Rights Act of 1866)
Now where is your English common law?
Where is the answer to the question I ask you?
Answer: That is what Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said in 1869:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173895 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
Anyone with eight grade reading level should be able to understand that "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States is a condition precedent to citizenship per the 14th Amendment, as also per naturalization laws, which require persons to be under the jurisdiction of the United States for a prescribed period prior to naturalization.

Somehow Dufus Dale believes that appending "(US Constitution)" to the jurisdiction clause reverses the obvious logic. That is a sign of seriously disordered thinking.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4. The authority to establish legislation governing naturalization is vested in Congress which in turn delegated the authority to the Attorney General per 8 USC § 1421 (a).
The 14th Amendment requires aliens to be under the jurisdiction of the United States in order to be naturalized in the United States. While under the jurisdiction of the United States aliens are subject to US law, including naturalization law per Art 1 Sec 8 Cl 4. The amendment and the clause are in perfect harmony.
<quoted text>
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173896 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
Answer: That is your nutty opinion. But your repeating it over and over does not make it correct. EVERYONE in the USA except for foreign diplomats and their families are subject to the jurisdiction of the USA.

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173897 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"
How many times need I answer this?

The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.

From Black's Law Dictionary:

alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;

Got any more simpleton questions?

“Kenyan-born Obama=Antichrist”

Since: Sep 09

Casper, WY

#173898 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer: That is what Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said in 1869:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
That means nothing. The ONLY thing that matters is what our nation's founders intended.
Jesus saves.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173899 Oct 4, 2013
WelbyMD wrote:
<quoted text>So is Kenyan-born Obama a man without a country?
The “born in Kenya” story is the height of the loony side of the birther movement. It is based on forgeries like that of Lucas D. Smith, and falsifications–such as the claim that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya—when she actually said right on the same tape that he was born IN HAWAII, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter FROM HAWAII.

Lucas D. Smith, a convicted felon, claimed that he went to Kenya and got Obama’s birth certificate at a hospital in Mombasa. But Lucas D. Smith has constantly refused to show proof that he, Smith, had ever gone to Kenya. All that he would have to do would be to show a Kenya stamp on a page of a passport, but Lucas D. Smith has refused to do that, constantly, and he has also constantly refused to say why he will not show that proof.(Moreover, his “birth certificate” uses US date formats [month/day/year] and not the day/month/year format used in Kenya.)

Laying aside for a moment the overwhelming proof that Obama was born in Hawaii, the evidence that Obama was NOT born in Kenya is also very strong. There were a grand total of 21 people who came to the USA from Kenya in 1961. Of these only seven were US citizens. And the birther myth has always been that Obama’s parents went there and returned by plane, but only one person came to the USA from Kenya in 1961 by plane and that person was, wait for it, NOT a US citizen. And Obama’s father did not go to Kenya in 1961 either (making it unlikely that his mother did, since travel late in pregnancy was rare, and even more rare without the husband going along). WND has proved with a FOI Act request that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii throughout 1961.

And the Kenyan government investigated the “born in Kenya” story, and found that it was not true.

“Jon Chessoni, a first secretary at the Kenyan Embassy in Washington, can’t understand why his office gets so many baseless questions about whether Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

“It’s madness,” said Chessoni on Monday.“His father, in 1961, would not even have been in Kenya. When this matter first came up, the Kenyan government did its research and confirmed that these are all baseless claims.””

http://washingtonindependent.com/53654/forged

Obama has a Hawaii birth certificate that says that he was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, and the officials of both parties in Hawaii have confirmed that fact. It is also confirmed by the birth announcement in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961, which were sent to the papers only by the DOH of Hawaii.

Obama’s birth announcement appeared in a section of the newspapers called Health Bureau Statistics. As the name indicates, and as the papers and the DOH also say, ONLY the DOH of Hawaii could send birth notices to the Health Bureau Statistics section of the paper. And the DOH only sent out those notices for children that it had issued birth certificates for, and in 1961 the DOH was not allowed to register the births of children who were not born in Hawaii.

Oh, and there is this:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/kapiol

And, btw, birthers have never been able to show that Obama's mother even had a passport in 1961---and very very few 18-year-olds did in those days. Still they'd like gullible people to assume that she was one of the few 18-year-olds to have a passport, and one of the extremely few women who traveled abroad during the last three months of pregnancy because of the risk of stillbirth (she could not have gone earlier because she was attending college) and that she traveled ALONE (WND has proven that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii throughout 1961) by ship (ALL 63 persons who went from the USA to Kenya in 1961 went by ship according to the INS) and gave birth in Hawaii---despite the fact that the government of Kenya said that it never happened.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173900 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what you, and you alone, claim. But you are not qualified to make that claim. It is stupid and wrong. It is simply a nutty idea. It is not what the meaning of subject to the jurisdiction really is. As Johnathan Bingham, one of the key writers of the 14th Amendment said:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
There is laso the obvious consequence of Dale's assertion that only citizens are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. It turns the notion of national sovereignty on its head. The nutty idea is absurd on its face. That will not dissuade the psychotically grandiose mind.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173901 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.
From Black's Law Dictionary:
alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;
Got any more simpleton questions?
About time!!! Now as you can see and alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution), this only a condition that a citizen can hold.(see 14th amendment)

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