BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173874 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Only citizens are subject to the jurisdiction, thereof, Obama at the moment of birth was a citizen of his father's country.
Now you say that he is a dual-citizen, if that be true then he would be on the same level as naturalized citizen, too much foreign influence, not eligible to be POTUS.
That is what you, and you alone, claim. But you are not qualified to make that claim. It is stupid and wrong. It is simply a nutty idea. It is not what the meaning of subject to the jurisdiction really is. As Johnathan Bingham, one of the key writers of the 14th Amendment said:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

That is why with the exception of a few birther lawyers and other nuts, all the legal scholars and appeals courts agree with Bingham that every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born US Citizen.

Some examples:

"Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.”---Senator Lindsay Graham (December 11, 2008 letter to constituents)

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.”(Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)--Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).

“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President ..."---- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005)[Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

"Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other.“Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning."---The Wall Street Journal ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297 ...)

More reading on the subject:

http://www.fredthompsonsamerica.com/2012/07/3 ...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyiname ...

http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obama ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-cit ...

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_eviden ...

Also, as noted above, the Declaration of Independence said: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal....."

That means that unless the Constitution specifically says that the US-born children of foreigners are NOT entitled to become president, they are created equal with the US-born children of US citizens. And the Constitution does not specifically, or in any way, say that the US-born children of foreigners are not entitled to become president.

You cannot read into the Constitution something that is not there. And there isn't a single word IN the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173875 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! What is a Natural Born Citizen, as Jay indicated, one who is without foreign attachments.
Answer: John Jay, an expert in the common law, was using the term exactly the way that it was in the common law, and if he were NOT using the definition of Natural Born that he was familiar with in the common law, he would have said so.

And the meaning of Natural Born Citizen in the common law includes every child born in the country except for the children of foreign diplomats.

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173876 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!!
The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.
Now would you please tell me how foreigners and aliens are born in this country, we all know that ambassador's family members are not granted citizenship to the US, but just how are aliens born here.
Answer: That is what Johnathan Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said three years later:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173877 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! What is a Natural Born Citizen, as Jay indicated, one who is without foreign attachments.
Sorry but you cannot change what Jay said. "[A] strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the Administration" does not pertain to natural born citizen children born of an alien parent because the child is not a foreigner (except according to Play Law).
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173878 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
One way for a foreigner or alien to be born in this country is to be born the child of a foreign ambassador (as plainly stated in the quote Dufus Dale does not comprehend).
LMAO!!! You keep forgetting that comma, don't you.
Oh, where is that answer to my question I ask you the other day?
"What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173879 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! No, wrong again, the Constitution has the final say as to any USSC ruling and this must be brought by the other two branches of the government, no branch of the government has anymore control than the others. This seem to be our problem as a nation, we have placed too much false authority into the USSC.
In this case, the three branches are in complete harmony. Obama's election was conducted by the US ELECTORAL COLLEGE, not one of whose members changed her or his vote from Obama to McCain or Obama to Mitt Romney out of the nutty idea that Obama was born in a foreign country or the crazy legal theory that two US citizen parents are required in order to be a Natural Born Citizen. Obama's election was confirmed by the US Congress twice, without a single member raising an objection. The former president of the USA, George Bush, was asked about Obama's eligibility, and said that he had no problem with it. Obama was sworn in repeatedly by the Chief Justice of the USA, and NINE appeals courts all ruled that Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen and the US Supreme Court turned down an appeal of one of those nine cases, which had ruled that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen includes every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats.

As Bingham put it:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

And the key point remains that there is not a single word in the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president. Not a word.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173880 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! The 14th amendment has plainly stated who are citizens of the US, either born or naturalized and Obama does not conform to either category.
There are requirements to be a citizen, so with those requirements the Constitution has created a citizen.
The 14th amendment was not created from the English common law as can be found in the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the debates of the 14th amendment.
You're babbling Dufus. The 14th Amendment formalized the "National Law" described by Judge Lewis Sandford in Lynch v. Clarke and cited in numerous state and federal citizenship cases thereafter. Citizenship by birth in the country has been the law since day 1 of the republic. The underlying principle of citizenship by birth in the country is and always has been rooted in English Common Law.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution creates neither natural born nor naturalized citizens.
Currently it it the US Attorney General who is vested with authority to naturalize persons per statute.
Natural born citizens are "created" by Nature, and the Founders recognized this principle derived from Natural Law as embodied in English Common Law.
The Constitution recognizes both citizens and persons but creates neither.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173881 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer: John Jay, an expert in the common law, was using the term exactly the way that it was in the common law, and if he were NOT using the definition of Natural Born that he was familiar with in the common law, he would have said so.
And the meaning of Natural Born Citizen in the common law includes every child born in the country except for the children of foreign diplomats.
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
LMAO!!!

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

(* supreme power or authority)

"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" Civil Rights act of 1866

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#173882 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And everyone born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is subject to its jurisdiction. As one of the key writers of the 14th Amendment, Bingham, said:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
That is why with the exception of a few birther lawyers and other nuts, all the legal scholars and appeals courts agree with Bingham that every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born US Citizen.
Some examples:
"Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.”---Senator Lindsay Graham (December 11, 2008 letter to constituents)
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.”(Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)--Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President ..."---- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005)[Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
"Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other.“Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning."---The Wall Street Journal ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297 ...)
More reading on the subject:
http://www.fredthompsonsamerica.com/2012/07/3 ...
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyiname ...
http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obama ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-cit ...
http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_eviden ...
Also, as noted above, the Declaration of Independence said: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal....."
That means that unless the Constitution specifically says that the US-born children of foreigners are NOT entitled to become president, they are created equal with the US-born children of US citizens. And the Constitution does not specifically, or in any way, say that the US-born children of foreigners are not entitled to become president.
You cannot read into the Constitution something that is not there. And there isn't a single word IN the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president.
I wonder, are children born in the United States by C section eligible to run for President. After all its not a "Natural-Born" Birth?

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#173883 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
In this case, the three branches are in complete harmony. Obama's election was conducted by the US ELECTORAL COLLEGE, not one of whose members changed her or his vote from Obama to McCain or Obama to Mitt Romney out of the nutty idea that Obama was born in a foreign country or the crazy legal theory that two US citizen parents are required in order to be a Natural Born Citizen. Obama's election was confirmed by the US Congress twice, without a single member raising an objection. The former president of the USA, George Bush, was asked about Obama's eligibility, and said that he had no problem with it. Obama was sworn in repeatedly by the Chief Justice of the USA, and NINE appeals courts all ruled that Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen and the US Supreme Court turned down an appeal of one of those nine cases, which had ruled that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen includes every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats.
As Bingham put it:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
And the key point remains that there is not a single word in the Constitution that bars the US-born children of foreigners or dual citizens from becoming president. Not a word.
I have noticed now that the darling of the tea party, Ted Cruz is showing Presidential aspirations, the whole birther issue seems to have gone off the radar
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173885 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4. The authority to establish legislation governing naturalization is vested in Congress which in turn delegated the authority to the Attorney General per 8 USC § 1421 (a).
The 14th Amendment requires aliens to be under the jurisdiction of the United States in order to be naturalized in the United States. While under the jurisdiction of the United States aliens are subject to US law, including naturalization law per Art 1 Sec 8 Cl 4. The amendment and the clause are in perfect harmony.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173886 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!!
Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]
(* supreme power or authority)
"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" Civil Rights act of 1866
That is what Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said in 1869:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173887 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You keep forgetting that comma, don't you.
Oh, where is that answer to my question I ask you the other day?
"What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"
It is Dufus Dale who cannot comprehend the use of the comma.

"He prefers apples, oranges, fruits of the land to others." Only an idiot would think the comma before fruits distinguishes "fruits of the land" from apples and oranges. Similarly only an idiotic birfoon would think the comma preceding children of ambassadors distinguishes them from foreigners and aliens.

As Dufus Dale has not learned simple English grammar and syntax through his entire life it is evident he will never comprehend the mysteries [hee hee] of the comma.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
One way for a foreigner or alien to be born in this country is to be born the child of a foreign ambassador (as plainly stated in the quote Dufus Dale does not comprehend).

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173889 Oct 4, 2013
[QUOTE who="Dale"
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You keep forgetting that comma, don't you.
Oh, where is that answer to my question I ask you the other day?
"What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"[/QUOTE]

The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.

From Black's Law Dictionary:

alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;

Got any more simpleton questions?
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173890 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
That is your view, but it is wrong. Everyone in the USA except for foreign diplomats is subject to the jurisdiction of US law. Your repeating and repeating of the nutty claim does not make it correct.

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173891 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
You're babbling Dufus. The 14th Amendment formalized the "National Law" described by Judge Lewis Sandford in Lynch v. Clarke and cited in numerous state and federal citizenship cases thereafter. Citizenship by birth in the country has been the law since day 1 of the republic. The underlying principle of citizenship by birth in the country is and always has been rooted in English Common Law.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! You forgot one thing, the States don't make the citizens, do they.

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

(*) supreme power or authority

"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens".(Civil Rights Act of 1866)

Now where is your English common law?

Where is the answer to the question I ask you?
Dale

Wichita, KS

#173892 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
It is Dufus Dale who cannot comprehend the use of the comma.
"He prefers apples, oranges, fruits of the land to others." Only an idiot would think the comma before fruits distinguishes "fruits of the land" from apples and oranges. Similarly only an idiotic birfoon would think the comma preceding children of ambassadors distinguishes them from foreigners and aliens.
As Dufus Dale has not learned simple English grammar and syntax through his entire life it is evident he will never comprehend the mysteries [hee hee] of the comma.
<quoted text>
What citizenship does an alien have prior to his naturalization?"

“Kenyan-born Obama=Antichrist”

Since: Sep 09

Casper, WY

#173893 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The alien does not necessarily have any citizenship in any country. An alien is one who is in a country but not a citizen of the country.
From Black's Law Dictionary:
alien (ay-lee-<<schwa>>n or ayl-y<<schwa>>n), n.(14c) A person who resides within the borders of a country but is not a citizen or subject of that country;
Got any more simpleton questions?
So is Kenyan-born Obama a man without a country?
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#173894 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! You forgot one thing, the States don't make the citizens, do they.
Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]
(*) supreme power or authority
"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens".(Civil Rights Act of 1866)
Now where is your English common law?
Where is the answer to the question I ask you?
Answer: That is what Bingham said in 1866. Here is what he said in 1869:

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#173895 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Aliens have never been, "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)".(see 14th amendment)
Anyone with eight grade reading level should be able to understand that "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States is a condition precedent to citizenship per the 14th Amendment, as also per naturalization laws, which require persons to be under the jurisdiction of the United States for a prescribed period prior to naturalization.

Somehow Dufus Dale believes that appending "(US Constitution)" to the jurisdiction clause reverses the obvious logic. That is a sign of seriously disordered thinking.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4. The authority to establish legislation governing naturalization is vested in Congress which in turn delegated the authority to the Attorney General per 8 USC § 1421 (a).
The 14th Amendment requires aliens to be under the jurisdiction of the United States in order to be naturalized in the United States. While under the jurisdiction of the United States aliens are subject to US law, including naturalization law per Art 1 Sec 8 Cl 4. The amendment and the clause are in perfect harmony.
<quoted text>

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Chicago Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 2 min EasyEed 1,110,293
Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil U... (Dec '10) 5 min Jonah1 49,838
Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds ... (Dec '08) 7 min mdbuilder 46,657
A short math question. I will reply with answer... 20 min MalignantNarcissi... 5
Antarctic Ice Sheet Largest by Far in 25 Years 27 min ThisWhatAlGorpMeant 4
FLOOD of illegal alien kids explained. 31 min YaGottaWatchAndReply 2
Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel (Jun '08) 31 min Eric 69,380
Amy 9-16 1 hr ralph 58
Amy 9-18 1 hr Stina2 21
Topix Chitown Regulars (Aug '09) 1 hr billyh 98,228
•••
•••

Chicago Jobs

•••
•••
•••

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••