BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit ...

BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

There are 219613 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jan 8, 2009, titled BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

Dale

United States

#173936 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Aliens inside the USA ARE subject to the jurisdiction, and so are their US-born children. The only people in the USA who are not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA are the families of foreign diplomats.
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
LMAO!!! Aliens in the US are subject to treaties, but are never subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution)!!! If aliens were "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof", they would have all the rights as a citizen, thereof!

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173937 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! As you should know, the 14th amendment is the Civil Rights Act of 1866, just put in a place where it can't be overturned without an amendment
According to Senator Lyman Trumbull, who drafted the Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1866 contains words "declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens."

But illiterate drop-out Dale knows better what Senator Trumbull wrote than the Senator himself?

“It was because of the idea which obtained before the adoption of the thirteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, that slaves were property and not persons, that it was thought proper to embody in the civil rights bill the declaration that all persons born in the United States were citizens. I did not think at that time it was necessary. I recollect that I had a discussion on that very point with the then Senator from Maryland, Mr. Reverdy Johnson, as to the propriety of inserting in the civil rights act those words declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens. We both agreed that after the abolition of slavery everybody born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States was a citizen of the United States; but we both thought that in consequence of the declaration which had been annunciated in the Dred Scott case, and also in order that there might be no cavil about it, it was better to declare it by law.” ASenator Lyman Trumbull, Cong. Globe 42nd, 1st Sess, 575-576 (April 11, 1871).
Dale

United States

#173938 Oct 4, 2013
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingham also said:
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen.” Rep. Bingham, The congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
LMAO!!!

congressional globe, Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869)”
LMAO!!!

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

(* supreme power or authority)

"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" (Civil Rights act of 1866)

Now what is a foreign power? It is a nation/country other than the US.

Obama was born a citizen of a foreign power, yes/no. After all, he has stated this, so this precludes him from being a US citizen, unless you want to call a divorce a naturalization process.

You can bitch, piss and moan, but
Dale

United States

#173939 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
And later in 1871 Senator Trumbull explained the meaning of the citizenship clause of the fourteenth Amendment: "every person born in the United States was a citizen of the United States." Senator Lyman Trumbull, cong. Globe 42nd, 1st Sess, 575-576 (April 11, 1871).
He had moments earlier read the ambassador's children exception from Paschal’s Annotated Constitution, p. 274:
"The children of ambassadors are, in theory, born in the allegiance of the powers the ambassadors represent...."
Trumbull, Howard, and Bingham were all in agreement that the Fourteenth Amendment made persons born in the US natural born citizens without regard to parentage except for the long held rare exceptions.
LMAO!!! Stop spinning your wheels, you're just like the other socialist on this thread, losers.
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#173940 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
His immediate next sentence will not be looked upon favorably by birfoons:“Who does not know, therefore, that all the natural born persons in the United States, men, women, and children, are citizens of the United States.”
Recall that birfoons refer to "citizen of the United States" as a third class of citizen. Not so according to Bingham (or any scholar or authority).
And here is the correct citation: Cong. Globe 40th Cong. 2nd Sess. 2212 (1868). The incorrect citation seems to have a life of its own on the web.
Volume 61, Part 2. pg. 2212 (1869) is incorrect.
Now, see if your little brain can figure out who he was speaking about in 1869. Doofus

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173941 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Children born in the US of aliens receive the citizenship of their fathers, making them ineligible to be citizens of the US.
Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty* is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]
(* supreme power or authority)
"All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens" Civil Rights act of 1866
John Bingham did not consider children born in the US of alien parents to owe allegiance to any foreign sovereignty. He believed as did James Madison that place of birth is the surest criterion of allegiance. A child born on US soil owes complete and immediate allegiance to the United States by the tie of natural allegiance, which pertains to the natural born citizen, consistent with natural law as elaborated according to Sir William Blackstone in his Commentaries.

Bingham stated that birth in the US is what makes one a natural born citizen. He said it before and after 1866.

Bingham's statements are inconsistent with Dufus Dales hare-brained redefinition of jurisdiction which turns sovereignty on its head.

“The constitution leaves no room for doubt upon this subject. The words “natural-born citizen of the United States” occur in it, and the other provisions also occur in it that “Congress shall have power to pass a uniform system of naturalization.” Who are natural-born citizens but those born within the republic? Those born within the Republic, whether black or white, are citizens by birth—natural-born citizens. John Bingham, Cong. Globe 37th Cong., 2nd Sess. 1639 (1862).

“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen. Who does not know, therefore, that all the natural born persons in the United States, men, women, and children, are citizens of the United States.” Rep. Bingham Cong. Globe 40th Cong. 2nd Sess. 2212 (1868).
Dale

United States

#173942 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Senator Lyman Trumbull, who drafted the Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1866 contains words "declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens."
But illiterate drop-out Dale knows better what Senator Trumbull wrote than the Senator himself?
“It was because of the idea which obtained before the adoption of the thirteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, that slaves were property and not persons, that it was thought proper to embody in the civil rights bill the declaration that all persons born in the United States were citizens. I did not think at that time it was necessary. I recollect that I had a discussion on that very point with the then Senator from Maryland, Mr. Reverdy Johnson, as to the propriety of inserting in the civil rights act those words declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens. We both agreed that after the abolition of slavery everybody born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States was a citizen of the United States; but we both thought that in consequence of the declaration which had been annunciated in the Dred Scott case, and also in order that there might be no cavil about it, it was better to declare it by law.” ASenator Lyman Trumbull, Cong. Globe 42nd, 1st Sess, 575-576 (April 11, 1871).
LMAO!!! Looks like when it went to press that wasn't the intent!!!
Yes, all persons were citizen, if they weren't subjects of a foreign power and to be a subject of a foreign power meant you couldn't be subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution), unless you were naturalized. Only citizens are subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173943 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
His immediate next sentence will not be looked upon favorably by birfoons:“Who does not know, therefore, that all the natural born persons in the United States, men, women, and children, are citizens of the United States.”
Recall that birfoons refer to "citizen of the United States" as a third class of citizen. Not so according to Bingham (or any scholar or authority).
And here is the correct citation: Cong. Globe 40th Cong. 2nd Sess. 2212 (1868). The incorrect citation seems to have a life of its own on the web.
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, see if your little brain can figure out who he was speaking about in 1869. Doofus
When he referred to "all natural born citizens" as "citizens of the United States" he was referring to "every person born within the limits of the Republic" (with the exception of children of foreign ambassadors and foreign ministers) as he plainly stated in the preceding sentence.

Duh!

Dale

United States

#173944 Oct 4, 2013
Justice LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, see if your little brain can figure out who he was speaking about in 1869. Doofus
Yes, in 1868 the law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens/foreign powers.
Every court case since 1898 dealing with citizenship has been in violation of the Constitution.
Looks like the congress has a monumental task in their future and of course we know how that will turnout, just as it has in the past 115 years. "Kick the can down the road!"

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173945 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Looks like when it went to press that wasn't the intent!!!
Yes, all persons were citizen, if they weren't subjects of a foreign power and to be a subject of a foreign power meant you couldn't be subject to the jurisdiction, thereof (US Constitution), unless you were naturalized. Only citizens are subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution.
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.

Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)

BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.

Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Senator Lyman Trumbull, who drafted the Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1866 contains words "declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens."
But illiterate drop-out Dale knows better what Senator Trumbull wrote than the Senator himself?
“It was because of the idea which obtained before the adoption of the thirteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, that slaves were property and not persons, that it was thought proper to embody in the civil rights bill the declaration that all persons born in the United States were citizens. I did not think at that time it was necessary. I recollect that I had a discussion on that very point with the then Senator from Maryland, Mr. Reverdy Johnson, as to the propriety of inserting in the civil rights act those words declaring that all persons born in the United States were citizens. We both agreed that after the abolition of slavery everybody born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States was a citizen of the United States; but we both thought that in consequence of the declaration which had been annunciated in the Dred Scott case, and also in order that there might be no cavil about it, it was better to declare it by law.” Senator Lyman Trumbull, Cong. Globe 42nd, 1st Sess, 575-576 (April 11, 1871).
Dale

United States

#173946 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>John Bingham did not consider children born in the US of alien parents to owe allegiance to any foreign sovereignty. He believed as did James Madison that place of birth is the surest criterion of allegiance. A child born on US soil owes complete and immediate allegiance to the United States by the tie of natural allegiance, which pertains to the natural born citizen, consistent with natural law as elaborated according to Sir William Blackstone in his Commentaries.
Bingham stated that birth in the US is what makes one a natural born citizen. He said it before and after 1866.
Bingham's statements are inconsistent with Dufus Dales hare-brained redefinition of jurisdiction which turns sovereignty on its head.
“The constitution leaves no room for doubt upon this subject. The words “natural-born citizen of the United States” occur in it, and the other provisions also occur in it that “Congress shall have power to pass a uniform system of naturalization.” Who are natural-born citizens but those born within the republic? Those born within the Republic, whether black or white, are citizens by birth—natural-born citizens. John Bingham, Cong. Globe 37th Cong., 2nd Sess. 1639 (1862).
“Who does not know that every person born within the limits of the Republic is, in the language of the Constitution, a natural-born citizen. Who does not know, therefore, that all the natural born persons in the United States, men, women, and children, are citizens of the United States.” Rep. Bingham Cong. Globe 40th Cong. 2nd Sess. 2212 (1868).
LMAO!!! It doesn't matter. When a child is born in the US of an alien father, it automatically receives its citizenship from its father, we practice the same when a child is born outside the limits of the US, makes no difference the condition of the mother.
Dale

United States

#173947 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! It is very evident you haven't any idea what controls these United States, without this control you are left with 50 separate nations.
Dale

United States

#173948 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
<quoted text>
The only people I have known without a country was the black man in the US and to this day, they still don't know. They call themselves African/American, there isn't any such country called Africa or America.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173949 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, in 1868 the law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens/foreign powers.
Every court case since 1898 dealing with citizenship has been in violation of the Constitution.
Looks like the congress has a monumental task in their future and of course we know how that will turnout, just as it has in the past 115 years. "Kick the can down the road!"
The law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens? And nobody knew it? Not the framers, not the Congress. Not the President. Not the people at large? All the children of alien German immigrants in Pennsylvania retained their US citizenship. There is not one case of a single person born of an alien parent in the US who lost US citizenship on account having an alien parent (other than Indians born on a reservation). The only persons who the government attempted to excluded were Chinese (Look Tin Sing and Wong Kim Ark in particular) and they were found to be natural born citizens.

Looks like Dufus Dale is still living in his dream world.

Nobody but nobody before or after the 14th Amendment has ever believed in Dale's fanciful disjointed and contradictory application of the word, jurisdiction. Yet he believes his fantasy should be applied as the Congressional intent of the Amendment. Positively psychotic.

So if the framers of the 14th and the Congress were so enlightened as the brilliant-in-his-own-mind Dale they would have understood what jurisdiction really meant so that's what we should apply now?

That's so pathetic it's not funny. It's sad. So delusional.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173950 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! It is very evident you haven't any idea what controls these United States, without this control you are left with 50 separate nations.
Too bad Rep. Bingham and Senators Trumbull and Howard are not alive today. If they were Dale could tell them what they really meant when they fashioned the 14th Amendment and he could give them a lesson on the true meaning of "jurisdiction" which apparently no one else in the world has ever understood.

What a friggin' lunatic.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#173951 Oct 4, 2013
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! It is very evident you haven't any idea what controls these United States, without this control you are left with 50 separate nations.
Well it's not controlling Dale. he has his foil hat on!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
Dale

United States

#173952 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Trumbull drafted the Act and explained in detail exactly the intent. The intent of the Act was similarly understood, and plainly stated as such by Rep. John Bingham and Sen. Jacob Howard. Their intent was conveyed to the US courts via the rules of statutory construction and consistent with their stated intent, the courts interpreted the language in precisely the same manner.
Sorry Dufus Dale, the meaning of the Act was according to the intent of Congress and they did not believe in the Play Law definition of jurisdiction. It is the height of lunacy to construe Congressional intent according to a fantasy definition of jurisdiction at odds with the prevailing accepted definition (which was the same then as it is now.)
BTW, has Dale ever written a formal definition of jurisdiction according to his disjointed fantasies? Of course not. it would crash and burn.
Regarding Dale's burning question:
Has Dale ever figured out that an alien is not necessarily a citizen of any country? The state of alienage is applied to anyone who is not a citizen of a country while residing in that country.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! Formal definition of jurisdiction, everyone know that the jurisdiction over the US is the Constitution. We are a Constitutional Republic, this means the Constitution has jurisdiction over the US and all branches of government.
Fact it you got schooled.
Dale

United States

#173953 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
The law was in place to deny citizenship to children born here of aliens? And nobody knew it? Not the framers, not the Congress. Not the President. Not the people at large? All the children of alien German immigrants in Pennsylvania retained their US citizenship. There is not one case of a single person born of an alien parent in the US who lost US citizenship on account having an alien parent (other than Indians born on a reservation). The only persons who the government attempted to excluded were Chinese (Look Tin Sing and Wong Kim Ark in particular) and they were found to be natural born citizens.
Looks like Dufus Dale is still living in his dream world.
Nobody but nobody before or after the 14th Amendment has ever believed in Dale's fanciful disjointed and contradictory application of the word, jurisdiction. Yet he believes his fantasy should be applied as the Congressional intent of the Amendment. Positively psychotic.
So if the framers of the 14th and the Congress were so enlightened as the brilliant-in-his-own-mind Dale they would have understood what jurisdiction really meant so that's what we should apply now?
That's so pathetic it's not funny. It's sad. So delusional.
You got schooled and now you are trying to save face!
Dale

United States

#173954 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it's not controlling Dale. he has his foil hat on!
<quoted text>
You got schooled and don't know how to handle it.
Dale

United States

#173955 Oct 4, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad Rep. Bingham and Senators Trumbull and Howard are not alive today. If they were Dale could tell them what they really meant when they fashioned the 14th Amendment and he could give them a lesson on the true meaning of "jurisdiction" which apparently no one else in the world has ever understood.
What a friggin' lunatic.
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! You really must find out what the Constitution is for, without it you haven't a United States of America, so be very careful how you treat it, you might be on the shitty end of the stick.

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