BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163632 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hummm 776.013 does not apply because it is about HOME DEFENSE.
And 776.O31 does not apply because it deals with the defense of others.
Again Chief Lee did not arrest George Zimmerman because the law would not allow him, and nothing more. And he was fired for upholding the law.
Ex-Police Chief claims he was pressured, then fired for not arresting Zimmerman:'They just wanted an arrest'
Jul. 10, 2013 9:07pm Jason Howerton
Former Sanford, Fla., police chief Bill Lee on CNN Wednesday claimed he was fired last year because he refused to arrest George Zimmerman just to appease an outraged public. Hey says there wasn’t enough evidence to warrant an arrest in the killing of Trayvon Martin, a fact that didn’t matter to some city officials.
When he refused to make the arrest, Lee claims he was fired from his position after just 10 months on the job. Officials argued they let Lee go because the public and elected officials had lost trust in him.
“I had one of the city commissioners come to me on two different occasions and say,‘All we want is an arrest.’ And I explained to them,‘Well, you just can’t do that, you have to have probable cause to arrest somebody.’ And it was related to me that they just wanted an arrest, they didn’t care if it got dismissed later. And you don’t do that,” Lee told CNN’s George Howell.
When asked how Zimmerman was able to remain free for 40 days after shooting Martin, Lee said the evidence just wasn’t there.
http://www.cafemom.com/group/115890/forums/re ...
So Rouge, if 776.012, 776.013, and 776.031 (as specified under 776.032) do not apply, what SYG law do fantasize applies?

Use of force by aggressor is covered under 776.041 which refers to preceding section (which are the same three sections as enumerated in 776.032).

So under what provision is immunity determined according to preponderance of evidence other than the three enumerated above? Eh?

You da lawya!

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163633 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again Chief Lee did not arrest George Zimmerman because the law would not allow him, and nothing more. And he was fired for upholding the law.
Ex-Police Chief claims he was pressured, then fired for not arresting Zimmerman:'They just wanted an arrest'
Jul. 10, 2013 9:07pm Jason Howerton
Former Sanford, Fla., police chief Bill Lee on CNN Wednesday claimed he was fired last year because he refused to arrest George Zimmerman just to appease an outraged public. Hey says there wasn’t enough evidence to warrant an arrest in the killing of Trayvon Martin, a fact that didn’t matter to some city officials.
When he refused to make the arrest, Lee claims he was fired from his position after just 10 months on the job. Officials argued they let Lee go because the public and elected officials had lost trust in him.
“I had one of the city commissioners come to me on two different occasions and say,‘All we want is an arrest.’ And I explained to them,‘Well, you just can’t do that, you have to have probable cause to arrest somebody.’ And it was related to me that they just wanted an arrest, they didn’t care if it got dismissed later. And you don’t do that,” Lee told CNN’s George Howell.
When asked how Zimmerman was able to remain free for 40 days after shooting Martin, Lee said the evidence just wasn’t there.
http://www.cafemom.com/group/115890/forums/re ...
"[T]hey didn't care if it got dismissed later"?

Duh! Rougie, it didn't get dismissed. It went to trial and the jury is deliberating.

So Chief Lee was WRONG, and yet you quote him as if the case had been dismissed according to a granted pre-trial motion to dismiss.

Rouge, you're in WAY WAY WAY over your head.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163634 Jul 13, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
How hopelessly muddled and confused is Rouge. I agree 776.031 does not apply in this case.
776.032 also refers to use of force in 776.012, 776.013.
776.013 contains a provision concerning "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in ***any other place*** where he or she has a right to be". Any other place doesn't mean in the home. Duh.
But Rouge never gets past the title or first line of a statute. How sad.
So if Rouge is referring to SYG other than 776.012, 776.013, or 776.031, pray tell what imaginary provision is Rouge referring to?
Rouge, you're in way over your head.
OMG, the day is not over and we already have Ground Hog Day. AGAIN I bring to your attention 776.032(2) in which they must have a probable cause to make the arrest. SOOOO, what was the probable cause? Following Trayvon? Nope, not a crime. Talking to a police dispatcher? Not a crime either. Making an ugly face at Trayvon? No evidence that he did but still no crime. Flipping the middle finger to Trayvon. Ditto! Call him the n-word? Ditto again! Come one Wotard, what is the probable cause to arrest him?

776.032&#8195;Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1)&#8195;
(2)&#8195;A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3)&#8195;

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163635 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
And Angela Corey filed a false affidavit with the judge to get the arrest warrant which makes the arrest warrant invalid. Both Angela Corey and the judge that signed it should be charged, impeached and disbarred!
I don't recall the trial judge granting a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the arrest was improper or that probable cause was lacking. Rouge will have to add the trial judge to the list of impeachables who dare disagree the truck drivin' counselor.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? That was exactly my point.
I wonder if Rougie understands that probable cause means PROBABLE CAUSE.
The standard is PROBABLE CAUSE, for the fourth time.
Again:
Nothing in the "SYG law" alters the probable cause standard, except that the defendant MAY raise the affirmative SYG defense in a preliminary hearing thereby seeking immunity from prosecution.
Did Rougie Scatterbrain read the Affidavit of Probable Cause? Of course he didn't.
Rouge is BIG TIME IGNORANT.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163636 Jul 13, 2013
Evoking God's name if a man is killed? Oh, it figures. Black Panthers are .... Muslims!!!

Black Panther:‘Praise Be To God’ If George Zimmerman Is Killed In Prison July 13, 2013

Read more: http://conservativevideos.com/2013/07/new-bla...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163637 Jul 13, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall the trial judge granting a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the arrest was improper or that probable cause was lacking. Rouge will have to add the trial judge to the list of impeachables who dare disagree the truck drivin' counselor.
<quoted text>
That's right because the Defense did not ask for it to be dismissed for that reason. They asked because the Prosecutor failed to prove his case!
Now, what was the probable cause for the arrest?!? You not dodging the issue, are you?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163638 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
And you have a read comprehension problem. They can not arrest him without probable cause that he was not acting in self defense.
Not quite Rougie. They cannot arrest if they do not have probable cause that the force used was unlawful. They have a creep playing policeman who was following an innocent 17-year old, referring to him with profanity to the police, who shot the boy dead, and who changed his story every time the wind blew in a different direction. That's probable cause right there.

Duh!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163639 Jul 13, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
"[T]hey didn't care if it got dismissed later"?
Duh! Rougie, it didn't get dismissed. It went to trial and the jury is deliberating.
So Chief Lee was WRONG, and yet you quote him as if the case had been dismissed according to a granted pre-trial motion to dismiss.
Rouge, you're in WAY WAY WAY over your head.
And State Attorney Norm Wolfinger declined to file for an arrest warrant as he saw no probable cause. Case closed!!! Until they arm twisted Wolfinger from withdrawing from the case and Gov. Rick Scott appointed Angela Corey.
So Chief Lee was wrong and so was State Attorney Wolfinger too?!?
This case morphed into a contrived racial event where it is okay to assault a creepy cracker simply because you want to and GZ should just shut up and take his licking like a dog!
GZ is not a racist. Trayvon was a racist!!!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163640 Jul 13, 2013
Black Panther:‘Praise Be To God’ If George Zimmerman Is Killed In Prison July 13, 2013

At least one member of the New Black Panther party hopes George Zimmerman is found guilty and murdered in prison.

“Anything less than death for George Zimmerman is not justice,” Kojo Kayrallah told The Daily Caller Friday afternoon. Kayrallah, who identified himself as the Chief of Staff for the state of Florida said he and his group were here in Sanford seeking “justice for Trayvon.” When asked if death in prison was satisfactory, Kayrallah said “praise be to God.”

Watch the video:
Read more: http://conservativevideos.com/2013/07/new-bla...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163641 Jul 13, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite Rougie. They cannot arrest if they do not have probable cause that the force used was unlawful. They have a creep playing policeman who was following an innocent 17-year old, referring to him with profanity to the police, who shot the boy dead, and who changed his story every time the wind blew in a different direction. That's probable cause right there.
Duh!
Okay, What exactly made the force used unlawful??? It is not a crime to be a neighborhood watch person and to follow anyone. And trayvon was innocent .... until he assaulted GZ and then he became a criminal!!!
TWO detectives said that between SIX interviews there was no SIGNIFICANT inconsistencies which means GZ did not lie!!! And you can not show us any inconsistency that amounts to a lie! Again, either put up or shut the f-up!!!
F-ing Wotard who has the CQ of a snail.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163642 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's right because the Defense did not ask for it to be dismissed for that reason. They asked because the Prosecutor failed to prove his case!
Now, what was the probable cause for the arrest?!? You not dodging the issue, are you?
RU on magic mushrooms? A motion to dismiss on grounds that probable cause was lacking would have been made pre-trial. If the prosecution lacked probable cause and O'Mara failed to file a motion to dismiss, that would be a major negligent error.

Rouge, you're in way way way over your head.

BTW, the probable cause was stated in the probable cause affidavit.

Why do you keep asking the same dumb question?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall the trial judge granting a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the arrest was improper or that probable cause was lacking. Rouge will have to add the trial judge to the list of impeachables who dare disagree the truck drivin' counselor.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163643 Jul 13, 2013
You all lie about GZ. You claim he stalked Trayvon but how do you stalk someone while walking on a sidewalk? You accuse of him lying but you can not give an example. Oh, he call a small tree a bush? Come on now, get a little CQ!!!
Oh, an altercation in front of the court house.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163644 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
And State Attorney Norm Wolfinger declined to file for an arrest warrant as he saw no probable cause. Case closed!!! Until they arm twisted Wolfinger from withdrawing from the case and Gov. Rick Scott appointed Angela Corey.
So Chief Lee was wrong and so was State Attorney Wolfinger too?!?
This case morphed into a contrived racial event where it is okay to assault a creepy cracker simply because you want to and GZ should just shut up and take his licking like a dog!
GZ is not a racist. Trayvon was a racist!!!
Wolfinger was proven wrong for the same reason Lee was proven wrong. The case was not dismissed due to lack of probable cause. This means the probable cause reasoning stood. The argument that there was insufficient probable cause to stand after it has already stood is absurd. RU on LSD?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
"[T]hey didn't care if it got dismissed later"?
Duh! Rougie, it didn't get dismissed. It went to trial and the jury is deliberating.
So Chief Lee was WRONG, and yet you quote him as if the case had been dismissed according to a granted pre-trial motion to dismiss.
Rouge, you're in WAY WAY WAY over your head.
Sunlight Foundation com

West Sayville, NY

#163645 Jul 13, 2013
Jury is asking for a definition of manslaughter.
Sunlight Foundation com

West Sayville, NY

#163646 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well dah, You Democrats had a super majority in the Senate and all it took was two Independents to get to a filibuster proof 60 vote to pass. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN voted for it in either the Senate or the House.
And get over it, Obama is NOT black. He is a half-black! You do know his mother was 100% white, don't you?!? well, I guess you are to stupid to know that.
Isn't it funny that you denounce Obama as being too conservative and then praise him for Obamacare.
I have never ever praised Obamacare.

NEVER EVER.
Sunlight Foundation com

West Sayville, NY

#163647 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
And you can't even explain that one. Do you even know what "Nazi" stands for? Translated into English it means " National Socialist German Workers' Party" (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei)
Now, do you know what "Fascism" is and how it differs from Soviet-style Communism? Under Fascism the state runs all businesses but does not own them whereas under Communism the state owns and runs everything.
And you probably believe that Lincoln was a Democrat too!
READ MY LIPS:

Hitler and the Nazis were fascist rightwingers......

...... PERIOD.

The title National Socialist MEANS NOTHING.

==========

14 Points of Fascism
http://tinyurl.com/2dfewwu
1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - 2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - 3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4.) Supremacy of the Military - 5.) Rampant Sexism - 6.) Controlled Mass Media
7.) Obsession with National Security - 8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined - 9.) Corporate Power is Protected:- 10.) Labor Power is Suppressed:- 11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - 12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment - 13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - 14. Fraudulent Elections:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/antifascism...

==========

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
Sunlight Foundation com

West Sayville, NY

#163648 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is how Libtards justify their misconduct. They claim the Republicans did it, so it is okay for them to do it. Like RomneyCare they claim was a Conservative issue but not one Republican in the Massachusetts legislature voted for it. And Romney could not veto it as the vote was a super majority vote.
Ya know, the Libtards would never have called it RomneyCare if it was something they did not like ..... but they did not want to take credit for!
And when you bring their lies forward, it is http://www.youtube.com/watch ...
<quoted text>
What are you smokin'? Really, what are you smokin'? Have you ever heard of Hillary Care?
<quoted text>
You Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress in 1993 and the Republicans proposed their vertion as a blocking move knowing full well it never would have passed.
Tell us Tootzie, did the Clinton health care plan passed either House? Remember both Houses where controlled by you Democrats and you could not get enough Democrat votes to pass either House.
What a ditz you are. You are such an idiot you have zero knowledge of how Congress works and seem to think Obama is some sort of conservative?!?
You need to update your links.

Your youtube does not work.

BTW: You do not even realize what is going on right under your nose.

Wake Up.

==========

Everyone is corrupt, I’ve come to learn
Imprisoned CIA whistle-blower John Kiriakou has advice for Snowden -- and a warning for the rest of us / Jul 11, 2013 / http://tinyurl.com/p5xjyl9
John Kiriakou, the former CIA officer who blew the whistle on Bush’s torture program and is now in prison, sent an open letter to Edward Snowden last week warning him not to trust the FBI.
“DO NOT,” Kiriakou wrote,“under any circumstances, cooperate with the FBI. FBI agents will lie, trick, and deceive you. They will twist your words and play on your patriotism to entrap you. They will pretend to be people they are not – supporters, well-wishers, and friends – all the while wearing wires to record your out-of-context statements to use against you. The FBI is the enemy; it’s part of the problem, not the solution.”
These are the words of a registered Republican who voted for Gary Johnson, whom the Rosenberg Fund for Children denied a grant, informing him that he wasn’t “liberal enough,” Kiriakou says, for the award — and who last year received a birthday card from Jerry Falwell Jr.
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/%E2%80%9Cever...

Since: Oct 09

Moreno Valley, CA

#163649 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hummmm, several BIG points here. Martin was shot 45 MINUTES after he let the convenience store and it was only a five minute walk back to his house. SOOOOO, what was Martin doing in those 40 extra minutes? Probably nothing more than hanging out BUT even a policeman would stop him and ask him what he was up to.
SURE, a volunteer neighborhood watch person can not stop and question someone but he can follow a suspect while waiting for a police officer and that was why GZ was on the phone with the police dispatcher.
Now you also said "running .... kid down" down and Zimmerman at no time RAN. The wind noise was just that, WIND. The local Sanford airport that the wind was 6-8 mph at the time and that was just enough to create WIND NOISE over the cell phone.
Now, how did, and why, did Trayvon RUN around the building and cut off GZ?!? Trayvon was running in the direction of his father's girl friend's house so why did he double back??? I have asked this question over and over again and you ignore it while at the same time claim that 1) GZ was racial profiling Trayvon, 2) that GZ was stalking Taryvon, 3) that he had the intention of shooting a black man all along (when he did not know what Trayvon's skin color was until several minutes into the phone call) and 4) you siad GZ PROVOKED Trayvon but will not explain how he provoked him.
What a bigoted COWARD you are!
Just answer the FRIGGIN' questions if you are not a coward.
You can ask the question a thousand times but there will never be any evidence to support your double back theory save Z’s word. Nor is there any forensic evidence to support the notion that TM ever punched Z save Z’s word.

You certainly can’t prove it from the autopsy report and Z can’t show he ever had a broken nose from any report. And I suppose only you Rogue would run straight to your father’s girlfriends house with some crazy guy chasing you.

Yes I said running him down because Z said Martin had took off running and that he was following. Apparently because “these assholes always get away” and I suppose Z wasn’t about to let it happen this time even if he had to shoot a kid to prevent it.

Damn right TM was trying to get away, but never mind that he was trying to get away from an unknown stalker who he assumed was at the very minimum nuts or at the very worse a serial killer.

I suppose the bigger question would be at what point during a chase by an unknown assailant does Martin get to stop and stand his ground?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/09/1214...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#163650 Jul 13, 2013
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
RU on magic mushrooms? A motion to dismiss on grounds that probable cause was lacking would have been made pre-trial. If the prosecution lacked probable cause and O'Mara failed to file a motion to dismiss, that would be a major negligent error.
Rouge, you're in way way way over your head.
BTW, the probable cause was stated in the probable cause affidavit.
Why do you keep asking the same dumb question?
<quoted text>
Again, what exactly is the probable cause. Either spell it out or shut the f-up.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#163651 Jul 13, 2013
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, What exactly made the force used unlawful??? It is not a crime to be a neighborhood watch person and to follow anyone. And trayvon was innocent .... until he assaulted GZ and then he became a criminal!!!
TWO detectives said that between SIX interviews there was no SIGNIFICANT inconsistencies which means GZ did not lie!!! And you can not show us any inconsistency that amounts to a lie! Again, either put up or shut the f-up!!!
F-ing Wotard who has the CQ of a snail.
It was not established that Martin attacked Zimmerman or that Zimmerman did not physically provoke Martin. If the facts clearly supported Zimmerman the case would never have gotten to trial. It was also not sufficiently established that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life. That means there was probable cause. Probable cause does not mean a showing that the force used was unlawful but only that there was reasonable ground to suspect that unlawful use of force had occurred.

Had Zimmerman sustained severe injuries his grounds for self defense would have been much stronger. He had only minor injuries. Minor injuries are not sufficient to establish grave danger. Sorry.

Either Z was justified in using force or unjustified. It was clear that he shot a person he had pursued and called an asshole among other things. If it is not clear that he acted in self defense then there is probable cause TO SUSPECT that he did not:
"A reasonable ground to suspect that a person has committed or is committing a crime."



minor injuries:
"The morning after he killed Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman went to a clinic with what appeared to be a broken nose, two black eyes and two cuts on the back of his head. But the physician’s assistant who treated him determined he neither needed X-rays nor had he suffered head trauma, newly released medical records show."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246...
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite Rougie. They cannot arrest if they do not have probable cause that the force used was unlawful. They have a creep playing policeman who was following an innocent 17-year old, referring to him with profanity to the police, who shot the boy dead, and who changed his story every time the wind blew in a different direction. That's probable cause right there.
Duh!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Chicago Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 6 min hillaryfordramaqueen 1,127,262
Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil U... (Dec '10) 38 min well 50,657
Amy 10-24 3 hr your poor wife 15
Last word + 2 (Mar '12) 4 hr Wolverine33 654
Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas decl... (Jan '09) 5 hr Ratloder 68,672
Rattlesnake Logic 6 hr i need a bump to 22
food for thought 7 hr reality is a crutch 2
Chicago Dating
Find my Match

Chicago Jobs

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]