BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

There are 20 comments on the Jan 8, 2009, Chicago Tribune story titled BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

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“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#130830 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Foreign citizenship automatically denies birth right citizenship in the US.
Foreign citizenship law has never had any force or effect in the United States, which incidentally, is a SOVEREIGN nation not bound by foreign law.

Play Law doesn't work outside of your play pen.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, Play Law only works in your play pen. Birthright citizenship concerns who is born a US citizen, not who is a foreign citizen. A stateless person is not a foreign citizen but is not a US citizen either. Such a person would have to be naturalized. The Naturalization Act does not depend upon recognition of foreign citizenship, but rather alienage of the person to be naturalized.
Now go put your play robe and gavel back in your toy box. Your momma wants to put you to bed for your nap.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130831 Nov 30, 2012
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
If aliens are not subject to the Constitution then that means that aliens are not protected by the civil rights contained in the Constitution. In other words, aliens have no right to trial by jury, no freedom of speech, not protected from unreasonable search and seizures, no protection against double jeopardy and no right to a speedy and public trial.
Moreover, these aliens do not come under the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause.
However, your faulty premise has no legal foundation since courts have established that citizens and aliens have the same constitution rights. "The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws" Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886)
Furthermore, "Alien inhabitants of a State, as well as all other persons within its jurisdiction, may invoke the protection of these clauses [14th Amendment]." Terrace v. Thompson, 263 U.S. 197, 216 (1923)
Justice Stevens wrote "There are literally millions of aliens within the jurisdiction of the United States. The Fifth Amendment, as well as the Fourteenth Amendment, protects every one of these persons from deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Wong Yang Sung v. McGrath, 339 U. S. 33, 48-51; Wong Wing v. United States, 163 U. S. 228, 238; see Russian Fleet v. United States, 282 U. S. 481, 489. Even one whose presence in this country is unlawful, involuntary, or transitory is entitled to that constitutional protection. Wong Yang Sung, supra; Wong Wing, supra.
The fact that all persons, aliens and citizens alike, are protected by the Due Process Clause does not lead to the further conclusion that all aliens are entitled to enjoy all the advantages of citizenship or, indeed, to the conclusion that all aliens must be placed in a single homogeneous legal classification. For a host of constitutional and statutory provisions rest on the premise that a legitimate distinction between citizens and aliens may justify attributes and benefits for one class not accorded to the other; and the class of aliens is itself a heterogeneous multitude of persons with a wide-ranging variety of ties to this country. Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U.S. 67, 77-79 (1976)
As such, your folderol claim that aliens are not subject to the constitution doesn't hold water in lights of Supreme Court decisions that hold the contrary position.
aliens are under the jurisdiction of local, state and Fed statutes, per treaty, but never bound to the US Constitution, as in "Subject to the jurisdiction, thereof", this is only a right enjoyed by a citizen.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130832 Nov 30, 2012
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
A dull toothless steak knive would be more than adequate.
Ever try cutting down a tree with a steak knife?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#130833 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>what part of the "Civil Rights Act of 1866" do you not understand, it is still the law today.
What part?

The part written in invisible ink that says ordinary aliens in the US are subject to a foreign power.

They are subject to the sovereign rule, under the Constitution and other laws of the United States of America, i.e., subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and under the protection thereof and owing local allegiance thereto, while in this country.

Half-baked Play Law belongs in the children's play room. Frivolous.
Now go put your play robe and gavel back in your toy box.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of the following does BirfoonBoy fail to comprehend?“Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as WERE BORN IN THE COUNTRY or were made by naturalization.”
Obviously the only way the two can be reconciled is by recognition that ordinary aliens in the US are not subject to any foreign power but are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
BTW, that happens to be the law -- real law, not Play Law.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130834 Nov 30, 2012
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Took you two days to come up with that rapier-like reply? LMAO (LRS tm reg'd).
BTW, please point out my potty-mouth language.
No, just got bored, thought I would drop you a line.
No need to point anything out, you know what you posted. We all do.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#130835 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>aliens are under the jurisdiction of local, state and Fed statutes, per treaty, but never bound to the US Constitution, as in "Subject to the jurisdiction, thereof", this is only a right enjoyed by a citizen.
Treaties, a frivolous and infantile red herring.

Those persons who are subject to federal, local, and state statutes in this country are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, with or without treaties.

Grow up.

[QUOTE who="Atticus Tiberius Finch"
<quoted text>
If aliens are not subject to the Constitution then that means that aliens are not protected by the civil rights contained in the Constitution. In other words, aliens have no right to trial by jury, no freedom of speech, not protected from unreasonable search and seizures, no protection against double jeopardy and no right to a speedy and public trial.
Moreover, these aliens do not come under the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause.
However, your faulty premise has no legal foundation since courts have established that citizens and aliens have the same constitution rights. "The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws" Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886)
Furthermore, "Alien inhabitants of a State, as well as all other persons within its jurisdiction, may invoke the protection of these clauses [14th Amendment]." Terrace v. Thompson, 263 U.S. 197, 216 (1923)
Justice Stevens wrote "There are literally millions of aliens within the jurisdiction of the United States. The Fifth Amendment, as well as the Fourteenth Amendment, protects every one of these persons from deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Wong Yang Sung v. McGrath, 339 U. S. 33, 48-51; Wong Wing v. United States, 163 U. S. 228, 238; see Russian Fleet v. United States, 282 U. S. 481, 489. Even one whose presence in this country is unlawful, involuntary, or transitory is entitled to that constitutional protection. Wong Yang Sung, supra; Wong Wing, supra.
The fact that all persons, aliens and citizens alike, are protected by the Due Process Clause does not lead to the further conclusion that all aliens are entitled to enjoy all the advantages of citizenship or, indeed, to the conclusion that all aliens must be placed in a single homogeneous legal classification. For a host of constitutional and statutory provisions rest on the premise that a legitimate distinction between citizens and aliens may justify attributes and benefits for one class not accorded to the other; and the class of aliens is itself a heterogeneous multitude of persons with a wide-ranging variety of ties to this country. Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U.S. 67, 77-79 (1976)
As such, your folderol claim that aliens are not subject to the constitution doesn't hold water in lights of Supreme Court decisions that hold the contrary position.[/QUOTE]
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#130836 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Ever try cutting down a tree with a steak knife?
A sapling, yes.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#130837 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>aliens are under the jurisdiction of local, state and Fed statutes, per treaty, but never bound to the US Constitution, as in "Subject to the jurisdiction, thereof", this is only a right enjoyed by a citizen.
However, the 14th Amendment does not say "subject to the US Constitution." It simply says "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." And the "thereof" refers to the United States, the country. And the meaning of "jurisdiction" has been defined by the US Supreme Court as subject to the laws.

All people who are in the USA are subject to the laws of the USA except for foreign diplomats and their families.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130838 Nov 30, 2012
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because aliens have no political rights (i.e. vote, hold public office) doesn't mean that they don't have constitutional rights to protection their life, liberty and property.
Sorry, aliens do not have Constitutional Right, they are not citizens. You can't get around that, without violating the Constitution.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#130839 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Foreign citizenship automatically denies birth right citizenship in the US.
Not according to supreme court decisions for the past 200 years.

"The concept of dual citizenship recognizes that a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both" Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717, 727 (1951)

"As municipal law determines how citizenship may be acquired, it follows that persons may have a dual nationality. And the mere fact that the plaintiff may have acquired Swedish citizenship by virtue of the operation of Swedish law, on the resumption of that citizenship by her parents, does not compel the conclusion that she has lost her own citizenship acquired under our law."
Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 329 (1939)
Liberal Crap

Houston, TX

#130840 Nov 30, 2012
Someone should shut down this Topix site.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130842 Nov 30, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Repeating Play Law over and over doesn't turn fantasy into reality.
Everyone knows all laws of the US must be in accord with the Constitution, and that the United States, as a SOVEREIGN NATION, is entitled to govern the conduct of aliens within its jurisdiction. US law since the First Congress required aliens to be subject to the jurisdiction (under the jurisdiction) of the United States prior to being naturalized in the United States.
Naturalization Act of 1790:
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the JURISDICTION of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least ...."
Grow up.
<quoted text>
under the jurisdiction is not the same as being "subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution", this is a right that only a citizen enjoys.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#130843 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, aliens do not have Constitutional Right, they are not citizens. You can't get around that, without violating the Constitution.
The Constitution is applicable to everyone who is within the jurisdiction of the United States. Citizens and aliens are within the jurisdiction of the United States. If it is your contention that aliens HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHTS under the Constitution then it means that there are millions of people in the United States that have no rights that are protected by the Constitution.

That is inane.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#130844 Nov 30, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
What part?
The part written in invisible ink that says ordinary aliens in the US are subject to a foreign power.
They are subject to the sovereign rule, under the Constitution and other laws of the United States of America, i.e., subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and under the protection thereof and owing local allegiance thereto, while in this country.
Half-baked Play Law belongs in the children's play room. Frivolous.
Now go put your play robe and gavel back in your toy box.
<quoted text>
Any part Mobarf as you've made it perfectly clear that you do not understand any of it. So, really just take your pick! LMAO!

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#130845 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, aliens do not have Constitutional Right, they are not citizens. You can't get around that, without violating the Constitution.
Bullcrap.

You can't get around that without violating Play Law.

"nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"

Needless to say, "any person" obviously includes aliens.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#130846 Nov 30, 2012
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
However, the 14th Amendment does not say "subject to the US Constitution." It simply says "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." And the "thereof" refers to the United States, the country. And the meaning of "jurisdiction" has been defined by the US Supreme Court as subject to the laws.
All people who are in the USA are subject to the laws of the USA except for foreign diplomats and their families.
Don't be stupid!
Learn to Read

Indianapolis, IN

#130847 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>You have run completely out of an argument.
This from the Dufus that has repasted the same lameass lie at least 500 times? The only things you haven't run out of are BS and hate
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130848 Nov 30, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Repeating Play Law over and over doesn't turn fantasy into reality.
Everyone knows all laws of the US must be in accord with the Constitution, and that the United States, as a SOVEREIGN NATION, is entitled to govern the conduct of aliens within its jurisdiction. US law since the First Congress required aliens to be subject to the jurisdiction (under the jurisdiction) of the United States prior to being naturalized in the United States.
Naturalization Act of 1790:
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the JURISDICTION of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least ...."
Grow up.
<quoted text>
"may be admitted to become a citizen thereof", if this is accomplished then he will be "Subject to the jurisdiction" of the US Constitution.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#130849 Nov 30, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>under the jurisdiction is not the same as being "subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution", this is a right that only a citizen enjoys.
Under the jurisdiction
subject to the jurisdiction

There is no legal distinction between the two phrases.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#130850 Nov 30, 2012
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution is applicable to everyone who is within the jurisdiction of the United States. Citizens and aliens are within the jurisdiction of the United States. If it is your contention that aliens HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHTS under the Constitution then it means that there are millions of people in the United States that have no rights that are protected by the Constitution.
That is inane.
no it is not, you stated it yourself, aliens haven't any political rights.
Aliens are here under treaties and are under local, state and Fed statutes, but never bound to the Constitution, as in "subject to the jurisdiction, thereof".

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