BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

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“NEX UT TYRANNUS BONOBO OBAMA”

Since: Feb 12

Bowling Green KY

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#117802
Oct 16, 2012
 

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LOL wrote:
http://www.examiner.com/articl e/obama-supporters-on-twitter- threaten-to-riot-if-romney-win s-election
Oh no, we're all shaking in our boots! And rioting will do what for them? What a bunch of idiots! Freedom of speech OK, freedom to assemble OK, freedom to riot and intimidate voters, don't recall that amendment to the US constitution! Hey you brain dead socialist demorat Obozo loving drone twits from twitter, can't wait to see your butts thrown in jail live on Fox News! LOL!
I'll have to look at the list of amendments and see which one I'll use to counter violent rioters if it spills over into my area.
Let me see now.
Hmmm!

“NEX UT TYRANNUS BONOBO OBAMA”

Since: Feb 12

Bowling Green KY

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#117803
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, all we need to do is convince enough Independent voters not to vote for Obama and he will be gone in Jan. 20th.
Its getting closer everyday.
More independents are deciding to vote Romney.
I believe we'll see a regime change this time.

“NEX UT TYRANNUS BONOBO OBAMA”

Since: Feb 12

Bowling Green KY

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#117804
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's okay as I am ready to defend myself and my property and here in Florida ... all you need to do is feel threatened and ... pow!
Yep!

Since: May 10

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#117805
Oct 16, 2012
 

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People do not donate to losers and that is why over a month ago the Obama administration started to harass Gallup last month in an attempt to coerce them into bending their results in favor of Obama!!! Yep, that really wurked out fur Obama! NOT!!!

Romney raises record $170 million

Mitt Romney raised just over $170 million in September for his campaign and the Republican National Committee—his best fundraising month to date.
The total is about $11 million shy of the $181 million President Barack Obama raised for his campaign and the Democratic National Committee last month. But it still marks a key infusion of cash for the final weeks before Election Day.
Romney's cash haul includes money raised for the Romney Victory Fund, a joint committee operated by his campaign and the RNC. The announcement did not include how much each committee had raised, but it was noted that the two funds ended September with a combined $191.2 million in the bank.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-rai...
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117807
Oct 16, 2012
 

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LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have an anonymous P.O.Box? I want to send you a buttplug for x-mas. Maybe you'll shhhh then!
If ever we wanted proof...and you walk right in with it.

And no, I'm sure she, or anyone for that matter , would want anything like a used butt plug that has been so close to your brain.
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117809
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Siouxweety wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the bitch was condescending to me to begin with.
Hope that answers your question.
See, I don't provoke people when I first see them posting.
Usually I say something against Obama and then the hate comes.
When I want to throw it back, you little panty wearing pansies want to cry foul.
And about the other things you stated, I am done discussing this with you.
You go play your games with someone else, ok?
Do we or don't we have I.D. cards in Canada? Was that Canadian friend so dumb he didn't even know he has to use his driver's license as I.D. because Canada DOES NOT ISSUE I.D. CARDS. Instead of writing, in defeat, "And about the other things you stated, I am done discussing this with you.", why don't you just say you were wrong?

As to so many Canadians complaining about our health care, as you reported, what do you say about our 90% approval rating? How is your rating? Defeat again or will you answer?

Games? YOU came out with the I.D. cards and health care, remember?

Since: May 10

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#117810
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Hummmm, new Senate report! Isn't the Senate run by Dirty Hairy Reid? They why would he allow a report like this to be released?
http://ourpoliticalright.com/wp-content/uploa...
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117812
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Er, Rogue. Hugo Chavez. Remember him? Before I say more, understand that I don't like him any more than you do, perhaps even less.

BUT, and having said that, he just won an election, against an excellent and well-qualified opponent. And, according to election monitoring by outside observers, the whole process was pretty fair and square. Sure, some anomalies, but nothing that would alter the result. What is your analysis on the will of the Venezueleans to re-elect this man?

And, what is your opinion on Cuban medicine? Did you not chuckle at the sight of Chavez going to Havana to treat his cancer, a cancer, which, according to world medical opinion, was incurable? Not saying it's cured, the man's obviously living on borrowed time, but what do you think of Cuban doctors now? That doesn't mean I like Castro, I probably like him even less than you do. BUT, what do you think of Cuban medicine?

Since: May 10

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#117813
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. You're the one who posted it. Why'd you do it? It was GWB-originated, delayed to March and signed by Obama who had the gun to him, bankruptcies looming, huge layoffs. But remember, read the whole thing next time, and notice that Brokaw had a lot of "buts" in his discourse.
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Excusez-moi, when the president submits a budget request it goes to the ... Speaker of the House. If the Speaker is of the same party as the president it is usually amended very little by Speaker Pelosi is not only not in the same party as Bush, she is a radical progressive. The fact is Pelosi sat on the budget and it was not voted on at all in the House until after Bush left office. Further the deficit has grown by more than ONE TRILLION DOLLAE$. In other words, it was no longer the Bush budget. Obama owned it 100%.
FY2009 Budget Deficit
$407 billion (requested)[by Bush]
$1.413 trillion (enacted)[by Obama]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_Stat ...
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
And the reverse is true when the Speaker is a Republican and the President a Democrat like under Gingrich and Clinton. If it was not for Newt, those four budgets would not have been balanced!!!
Any president can only sign into law bills that are passed by both Houses of Congress!
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. You're the one who posted it. Why'd you do it? It was GWB-originated, delayed to March and signed by Obama who had the gun to him, bankruptcies looming, huge layoffs. But remember, read the whole thing next time, and notice that Brokaw had a lot of "buts" in his discourse.
[QUOTE who="Rogue Scholar 05"]<quoted text>
Damn, Jacques is AWOL again. Pelosi/Obama add One Trillion Dollar$ to the deficit in FY2009 and Jacques blames .... Bush!!! And then Jacques runs over the hill!
Well, Jacques is back. Let's see if he will ... comment ... now?
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117814
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, he is South Florida they were selling Commercial Driver's Licences. To qualify for a CDL you must read, write, speak and understand .... English and you are not allowed to have any assistance while taking the written exam yet the had over a thousand people in Southern Florida who knew almost no English driving commercial vehicles.
Even Canadians, who's primary language is French, must know enough English to pass a CDL to drive a commercial vehicle in the U.S. A driver of a private auto, under 26,000 lbs GVR, does not need to know one word of English but if you want to drive a taxi in New York City, you have to take the test in English and without any assistance.
That is unless you don't mind paying an extra fee?!?
Canadians' primary language is French? Want to rephrase that?

Many Québécois vacation in Florida in winter. Most if not all speak a very and often more than respectable level of English. I live here, on the Québec border, and I know that province well. You don't know what you"re talking about.

Here in Canada, you don't have to know Ehglish or French to pass a written and practical driver's exam. An interpreter will assist when necessary. And why not? Why do you need the language of the country to drive? All signs are symbols. When you drive in Germany, Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Rogue, armed with you int'l driver's licence, do you know the language of those countries? Do you drive just the same? Of course you do. So do I.

Since: May 10

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#117815
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Soooo, exactly why has the Obama Administration spent $160B to study Global Warming or to cut CO2 production?!?

Monday, 15 October 2012 10:30
Global Climate Warming Stopped 15 Years Ago, UK Met Office Admits: Written by Alex Newman

Despite playing a key role in advancing climate change hysteria, the United Kingdom’s National Weather Service, known as the Met Office, quietly released a report last week conceding that so-called “global warming” actually stopped more than 15 years ago. The startling admission shows once again that United Nations theories and climate models are wildly inaccurate at best, experts say, meaning multi-trillion dollar schemes to deal with alleged human-caused “climate change” are at the very least severely misguided.

According to the latest UK Met Office report, first reported by the Daily Mail, there has been no noticeable increase in global temperatures since early 1997. The alleged warming trend supposedly observed from 1980 to 1996 was about as long as the current “plateau” period, the paper reported. Prior to that, climate scientists admit, global temperatures had been stable or dropping for decades, a fact that prompted previous generations of climate alarmists to sound the alarm about the supposed dangers of man-made “global cooling.”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environmen...

Since: May 10

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#117816
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Jacqus Ottawa wrote:
Er, Rogue. Hugo Chavez. Remember him? Before I say more, understand that I don't like him any more than you do, perhaps even less.
BUT, and having said that, he just won an election, against an excellent and well-qualified opponent. And, according to election monitoring by outside observers, the whole process was pretty fair and square. Sure, some anomalies, but nothing that would alter the result. What is your analysis on the will of the Venezueleans to re-elect this man?
And, what is your opinion on Cuban medicine? Did you not chuckle at the sight of Chavez going to Havana to treat his cancer, a cancer, which, according to world medical opinion, was incurable? Not saying it's cured, the man's obviously living on borrowed time, but what do you think of Cuban doctors now? That doesn't mean I like Castro, I probably like him even less than you do. BUT, what do you think of Cuban medicine?
Well, several points here. If they want Chavez, so be it.But in Cuba, Chavez is using Castro's private doctors who come from .... Spain!!! Yes, Castro has his own private hospital for him and his friends.
Do you really think the average Cuban is getting the same medical care and treatment as the Politicos? Now, how many Canadians come to the U.S. for medical treatment?

Since: May 10

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#117817
Oct 16, 2012
 

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So Fidel Castro's doctor has TWO black Mercedes 500's and lives in a million dollar house in Havana!!!

Alvarez Cambra was close to Hussein in his various hiding places during the Gulf War. After the conflict ended, invading forces found the corpses of many Cuban soldiers and doctors, according to Israeli sources. Alvarez Cambra is married to a European woman, and has a son of the same name and profession. He has a nurse and confidant named Esperanza. At one time, his companion, assistant and bodyguard named Jose Antonio Fernandez (or Alvarez). Among the medical positions held by Dr. Alvarez Cambra has been the Director of the Frank Pais Hospital, in the city of Marianao, in the province of Havana.

The gratitude of Saddam Hussein can be seen in Alvarez Cambra's luxurious residence, located on 20th Street in the Miramar section of Havana, and two black Mercedes 500 cars. Visitors to the doctor's house, refer to it as an extremely luxurious residence, possibly valued in millions of dollars. Saddam Hussein also has extended his gratitude to Castro, giving the Cuban leader hundreds of carpets that were used in the meetings of the Cuban Communist party in 1995 and in October 1997. Some of these carpets were distributed among the Cuban "nomenclatura."
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117818
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. You're the one who posted it. Why'd you do it? It was GWB-originated, delayed to March and signed by Obama who had the gun to him, bankruptcies looming, huge layoffs. But remember, read the whole thing next time, and notice that Brokaw had a lot of "buts" in his discourse.
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Excusez-moi, when the president submits a budget request it goes to the ... Speaker of the House. If the Speaker is of the same party as the president it is usually amended very little by Speaker Pelosi is not only not in the same party as Bush, she is a radical progressive. The fact is Pelosi sat on the budget and it was not voted on at all in the House until after Bush left office. Further the deficit has grown by more than ONE TRILLION DOLLAE$. In other words, it was no longer the Bush budget. Obama owned it 100%.
FY2009 Budget Deficit
$407 billion (requested)[by Bush]
$1.413 trillion (enacted)[by Obama]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_Stat ...
<quoted text>
Well, Jacques is back. Let's see if he will ... comment ... now?
Here, in your own words : " The fact is Pelosi sat on the budget and it was not voted on at all in the House until after Bush left office. Further the deficit has grown by more than ONE TRILLION DOLLAE$. In other words, it was no longer the Bush budget. Obama owned it 100%.
FY2009 Budget Deficit
$407 billion (requested)[by Bush]"

Bush's budget, delayed by Pelosi, yes, but Bush's budget. Deficit :$407 billion. One of many, in the wake of so many others, following Clinton's "they-said-it-was-impossi ble" budget surpluses, thereafter followed by disastrous GWB tax cuts for the rich,$2 trillion wars in Afgh and Iraq, closing the eyes of regulators or ignoring gross financial irreguarities etc. No wonder Pelosi wanted to have many looks at that shotgun budget. In the end, her congress and Obama had little choice, money was running out, he had assumed power 6 weeks before. Problems were so huge, so overwhelming, had he known it was that bad, Obama would not have promised a balanced budget or a cut in the deficit. Repurcussions are now worldwide, and the crisis, in the US and overseas, will take more than the last 4 years to resolve. But it will be resolved, yes, if Obama is re-elected. I fear he may not and Romney will distribute what is left of the crumbs to his rich pals, count on it, and you birthers will cheer him on as the ship quickly, rather than slowly, lists and sinks.
Grand Birther

Oregon, OH

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#117819
Oct 16, 2012
 

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downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, let's assume Obama was born in Hawaii which makes him a US citizen. He is adopted by his step father and goes to school in Indonesia. Indonesia required you to be a citizen of that nation to go to school there which he did, so he technically gave up his citizenship but US law says he doesn't lose his US citizenship if he was a minor when this occurred so he is still a US citizen. So far, so good, Democrats cheer, give high fives, sneer at birthers.
Retired U.S.Postal Worker Allen Hulton recently signed a sworn affidavit for the Maricopa County, Arizona Cold Case Posse convened by Sheriff Joe Arpaio, attesting under oath, to conversations with Mary Ayers, the mother of Bill Ayers. He made his testimony public in a three hour long taped interviewed on March 19th, 2012. Mr. Hutton, by signing an affidavit has subjected himself to laws regarding perjury, not something to be taken lightly as telling the truth is now for him a requirement of law.
His testimony states Mary and Tom Ayers , parents of the former Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, were sponsoring Barack Obama as a foreign student, and financially supporting his education.. Ayers and Obama worked together in the Annenberg Challenge Project in Chicago. as well as the Woods Fund of Chicago.
If Hulton is correct, and Obama was introduced to Hulton as a Foreign Student, this means Barack Hussein Obama would have been using a Foreign Passport to get and prove his foreign student status for entrance into Occidental College, Columbia, and later Harvard Universities. Because Hulton has signed an Affidavit, this cannot be disregarded as mere hearsay; it is instead evidentiary in nature.Barack Obama
The significance of this development may not be immediately apparent until one recognizes American law regarding citizenship status. Citizenship laws as expressed in Title 8 of the United States Code states the use of a Foreign Passport constitutes adult recognition of relinquishment of American Citizenship:
8 USC 1481
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; 8 USC 1481
Using a foreign passport in order to obtain status as a foreign student is precisely that, proof of naturalization in a foreign state making him ineligible to hold the office of president of the United States.
Obama's team of lawyers squashed a subpoena to have his Occidental College records released. Obama paid the Perkins Cole law firm $683,316.42 in the first quarter of 2009 to keep those records from being released. That’s on top of the $378,375.52 he paid them in the last quarter of 2008.
In contrast, Romney released all his college records.
Birthers cheer, Democrats blame it on Bush, Obama listens to three hours of non stop Wagner music and declares war on Poland , Bill Ayers, self confessed Social Security card forger, builds a pipe bomb and explodes it at the Pentagon for old time's sake and Joe Biden sacrifices himself for his president by declaring he is a Kenyan.
WOW, ALL OF THIS IS AMAZING STUFF, DOWNHILL!!!!

I guess the simplest thing to do would be to just post the record of Presiden Barack Hussein Obama's adoption in Indonesia and his naturalization record.

You have that, right?
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117820
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Jacqus Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Canadians' primary language is French? Want to rephrase that?
Many Québécois vacation in Florida in winter. Most if not all speak a very and often more than respectable level of English. I live here, on the Québec border, and I know that province well. You don't know what you"re talking about.
Here in Canada, you don't have to know Ehglish or French to pass a written and practical driver's exam. An interpreter will assist when necessary. And why not? Why do you need the language of the country to drive? All signs are symbols. When you drive in Germany, Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Rogue, armed with you int'l driver's licence, do you know the language of those countries? Do you drive just the same? Of course you do. So do I.
DCL? Okay. Got it. If what I wrote does not apply to CDLs, then just gloss over my post. I agree that English is indeed a prerequisite for a CDL.
Grand Birther

Oregon, OH

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#117821
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Abdul the camel jockey wrote:
Keeping You Up To Date
Playboy magazine reportedly offered Sarah Palin $4,000,000 to pose nude in an upcoming issue.
Michelle Obama was offered $50 by National Geographic.
In other news... we all remember when KFC offered a "Hillary" meal, consisting of two small breasts and two large thighs.
Just keeping you up to date...
I heard the President's visit to the troops didn't go so well..
<quoted text>
Exactly what did I say that was racist and why it is racist??
IMHO Sarah Palin is to skinny for Playboy and it looks like she is not top heavy.
Nat Geo has should ethnic groups from all over the Earth and I did not say who should be shown from any part of the Earth, did I?
Is this a joke? You don't have to lie or pretend, Rogue Moron.

Own your beliefs or you're just another adult baby who's too scared to a real man.
Grand Birther

Oregon, OH

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#117822
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, all we need to do is convince enough Independent voters not to vote for Obama and he will be gone in Jan. 20th.
For years not a single birfoon has been able to explain exactly what a win for Romney in November would hae to do with birthers.

The Republican Party has long since said birther are crazy and stupid. The party believes the silly birfoon is wasting time on a non-issue.

So aside from voting for the party that sold them out, which they would have done anyway, what would a Republican win have to do with birfers?
Jacqus Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117823
Oct 16, 2012
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, several points here. If they want Chavez, so be it.But in Cuba, Chavez is using Castro's private doctors who come from .... Spain!!! Yes, Castro has his own private hospital for him and his friends.
Do you really think the average Cuban is getting the same medical care and treatment as the Politicos? Now, how many Canadians come to the U.S. for medical treatment?
1. No. Cuban doctors are Cubans. No Spanish doctors in Cuba. If so, and Castro and his gang have their own private Spanish doctors, you must prove it. Of course Castro and his highers-up have their own doctors, every country's leaders have that. But they are Spaniards? Prove it please. Same treatment as politicos for average Cubans? Probably not. Do you get the same treatment as your president, your sec of state, your governor, CEOs of big corporations? Of course not. Why should Cuba be any different? Havng said that, life expectancy in Cuba has now surpassed yours, stands at 79, meaning the ordinary joe must be sort of looked after from a medical standpoint, no?. Must be a reason they outlive you;

2. Cubans have so many doctors per capita, it is said that they are exporting them to Venezuela, Argentina, Colombia and Chile. Remember Katrina? Castro offered 1000 doctors to help out. Refused;

3. Canadians coming to the US for treatment? Yes. Like an eye-drop. Not many. And those that do are ususally rich and won't wait the 3 or 4 months it may take for non-urgent elective surgery or tests. Let them. Would be interesting to see how many Americans come to Canada for treatment, as even paying out of their own pockets for medical care often does not even surpass or 4 months' health insurance premium in the US. Also, much racket going on with our health system cards - loaned, sold, rented or stolen along the border. Now, the question is, Rogue, how many Americans go to Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Costa Rica, Mexico, Cuba, for medical treatment? Thousands. They go for good medical care and prices that are a fraction of what you guys charge both in mecidal and insurance costs.

Just an after-note here, as an example. Reason I was on Topix early today is I had an IRM appt at hospital at 3H45AM. Yes, they keep it open 18\24 in order to reduce wait time. Anyhoo, IRM was asked by my family doctor, no panel, no govt interference, and certainly no insurance clerk to approve of not approve. Procedure was NOT URGENT, as there is no life-or-death issue here, no big problem, just an annoying persistent dull back ache. I was put on IRM waiting list 2 months ago, got the call last week, all done. Cost?$6.00 for parking. Will probably see my doctor next 10 days when results are in for post-IRM consultation. Cost :$ 00. Parking : Free. 2 months for IRM I fnd reasonable as there was no urgency. Had there been, as has happened, it would have been very quick. Merci.
Johannes

Yucaipa, CA

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#117824
Oct 16, 2012
 

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downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, let's assume Obama was born in Hawaii which makes him a US citizen. He is adopted by his step father and goes to school in Indonesia. Indonesia required you to be a citizen of that nation to go to school there which he did, so he technically gave up his citizenship but US law says he doesn't lose his US citizenship if he was a minor when this occurred so he is still a US citizen. So far, so good, Democrats cheer, give high fives, sneer at birthers.
Retired U.S.Postal Worker Allen Hulton recently signed a sworn affidavit for the Maricopa County, Arizona Cold Case Posse convened by Sheriff Joe Arpaio, attesting under oath, to conversations with Mary Ayers, the mother of Bill Ayers. He made his testimony public in a three hour long taped interviewed on March 19th, 2012. Mr. Hutton, by signing an affidavit has subjected himself to laws regarding perjury, not something to be taken lightly as telling the truth is now for him a requirement of law.
His testimony states Mary and Tom Ayers , parents of the former Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, were sponsoring Barack Obama as a foreign student, and financially supporting his education.. Ayers and Obama worked together in the Annenberg Challenge Project in Chicago. as well as the Woods Fund of Chicago.
If Hulton is correct, and Obama was introduced to Hulton as a Foreign Student, this means Barack Hussein Obama would have been using a Foreign Passport to get and prove his foreign student status for entrance into Occidental College, Columbia, and later Harvard Universities. Because Hulton has signed an Affidavit, this cannot be disregarded as mere hearsay; it is instead evidentiary in nature.Barack Obama
The significance of this development may not be immediately apparent until one recognizes American law regarding citizenship status. Citizenship laws as expressed in Title 8 of the United States Code states the use of a Foreign Passport constitutes adult recognition of relinquishment of American Citizenship:
8 USC 1481
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; 8 USC 1481
Using a foreign passport in order to obtain status as a foreign student is precisely that, proof of naturalization in a foreign state making him ineligible to hold the office of president of the United States.
Obama's team of lawyers squashed a subpoena to have his Occidental College records released. Obama paid the Perkins Cole law firm $683,316.42 in the first quarter of 2009 to keep those records from being released. That’s on top of the $378,375.52 he paid them in the last quarter of 2008.
In contrast, Romney released all his college records.
Birthers cheer, Democrats blame it on Bush, Obama listens to three hours of non stop Wagner music and declares war on Poland , Bill Ayers, self confessed Social Security card forger, builds a pipe bomb and explodes it at the Pentagon for old time's sake and Joe Biden sacrifices himself for his president by declaring he is a Kenyan.
That's a rerun that has already been debunked.

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