BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117108 Oct 13, 2012
Terri Tanna wrote:
<quoted text>
Now the really stupid and uneducated one exposes for the entire Class to see he not only doesn't understand the legal construct of jurisdiction, but he is equally ignorant of the meaning of the term controlling in The Law.
In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, the court was specifically asked to address “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” and held it meant:


The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them (U.S.) direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.
Ellen1

Arlington, MA

#117109 Oct 13, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, the court was specifically asked to address “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” and held it meant:
The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them (U.S.) direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.
Obama was born a citizen of his father's nation, fact.
Elk v. Wilkins (1884) was before the Wong Kim Ark case (1898). Later cases overturn earlier cases.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117110 Oct 13, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
You cannot change the fact that Ark was understood by the USSC to be under the COMPLETE jurisdiction of the United States at the time of his birth. Indeed, the Court cited Elk in its Opinion. Because Elk was born on an Indian reservation as a member of an Indian tribe, he was not under the complete jurisdiction of the US, even though within the boundaries of the United States.(If not a member of an Indian nation he would have been born a citizen, even if his parents were from any foreign country beyond the territorial limits of the US.)
Last time I checked, President Obama was not born on an Indian reservation in Hawaii as a member of an Indian tribe.
UR off-point.
According to Elk, even though he was born within the limits of the US, he was not under the complete jurisdiction of the US because, the Indian nations were "alien nations" within the borders of the US.
"[T]he Indian tribes, being within the territorial limits of the United States, were not, strictly speaking, foreign states, but were alien nations, distinct political communities, the members of which owed immediate allegiance to their several tribes."
Last time I checked, Kapiolani Hospital was not part of an Indian Nation within the borders of the US.
Grow up!
<quoted text>
Elk was born a citizen of a quasi Nation, Obama was born a citizen of a Nation.
Wall Street President

Melrose Park, IL

#117111 Oct 13, 2012
Terri Tanna wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
"If Obama has been responsible for the recovery of the stock market, he is responsible for the down turn!!!"<quoted text>
Your post suggested a drop while Obama was president. The 58% drop was under G.Bush. Since that trough the administration's policies have created the largest rise in the U.S. equity markets (121%) in the first term of ANY president.
==
What does Apple have to do with anything? It is one stock.
Show the Class where the Market dropped 15% or more since March 2009.
Who cares what someone says may happen in the future? You make many foolish predictions that ALL prove to be false.
The Stock Market went up because Bernanke printed trillions of dollars and threw it into Wall Street with Obama's blessing. Don't tell us you don't know about this, because even the Mainstream Media knew about this. Except they called it "Stimulus for the Economy." Any idea what all this has done to the dollar and the middle class? You are beyond clueless.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117112 Oct 13, 2012
Ellen1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Elk v. Wilkins (1884) was before the Wong Kim Ark case (1898). Later cases overturn earlier cases.
no, Elk was not overturned.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#117113 Oct 13, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Very well could be, we have established he referred to natural law, would that be per Vattel's, Law of Nations.
Why do you ask? Can't you read?

“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

You think that could be per Vattel? RU on LSD?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
“Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
U think he was "using" Vattel?
UR going in circles.

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#117114 Oct 13, 2012
Wall Street President wrote:
<quoted text>
The Stock Market went up because Bernanke printed trillions of dollars and threw it into Wall Street with Obama's blessing. Don't tell us you don't know about this, because even the Mainstream Media knew about this. Except they called it "Stimulus for the Economy." Any idea what all this has done to the dollar and the middle class? You are beyond clueless.
It's refreshing to see someone else from Illinois mention the truth.
Gizmo

United States

#117115 Oct 13, 2012
Birthers are idiots.lol
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117117 Oct 13, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you ask? Can't you read?
“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
You think that could be per Vattel? RU on LSD?
<quoted text>
I asked you. Would you care to explain natural law to us.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#117118 Oct 13, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Elk was born a citizen of a quasi Nation, Obama was born a citizen of a Nation.
That's news? Elk was born within the territorial limits of the US of a quasi-nation within the territorial limits of the US. Neither England nor Kenya are quasi-nations within the territorial limits of the US. Kapiolani Hospital was never within the territorial limits of an Indian reservation, and the President was never a member of an Indian tribe.

UR way off-point.

Grow up!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
You cannot change the fact that Ark was understood by the USSC to be under the COMPLETE jurisdiction of the United States at the time of his birth. Indeed, the Court cited Elk in its Opinion. Because Elk was born on an Indian reservation as a member of an Indian tribe, he was not under the complete jurisdiction of the US, even though within the boundaries of the United States.(If not a member of an Indian nation he would have been born a citizen, even if his parents were from any foreign country beyond the territorial limits of the US.)
Last time I checked, President Obama was not born on an Indian reservation in Hawaii as a member of an Indian tribe.
UR off-point.
According to Elk, even though he was born within the limits of the US, he was not under the complete jurisdiction of the US because, the Indian nations were "alien nations" within the borders of the US.
"[T]he Indian tribes, being within the territorial limits of the United States, were not, strictly speaking, foreign states, but were alien nations, distinct political communities, the members of which owed immediate allegiance to their several tribes."
Last time I checked, Kapiolani Hospital was not part of an Indian Nation within the borders of the US.
Grow up!
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117119 Oct 13, 2012
Although natural law is often conflated with common law, the two are distinct in that natural law is a view that certain rights or values are inherent in or universally cognizable by virtue of human reason or human nature, while common law is the legal tradition whereby certain rights or values are legally cognizable by virtue of judicial recognition or articulation.[3] Natural law theories have, however, exercised a profound influence on the development of English common law,[4][full citation needed] and have featured greatly in the philosophies of Thomas Aquinas, Francisco Suárez, Richard Hooker, Thomas Hobbes, Hugo Grotius, Samuel von Pufendorf, John Locke, Francis Hutcheson, Jean Jacques Burlamaqui, and Emmerich de Vattel. Because of the intersection between natural law and natural rights, it has been cited as a component in the United States Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, as well as in the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen. Declarationism states that the founding of the United States is based on Natural law.

Damn, Vattel's Law of Nations is natural law, now who would have thunk that.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#117120 Oct 13, 2012
Terri Tanna wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
"If Obama has been responsible for the recovery of the stock market, he is responsible for the down turn!!!"<quoted text>
Your post suggested a drop while Obama was president. The 58% drop was under G.Bush. Since that trough the administration's policies have created the largest rise in the U.S. equity markets (121%) in the first term of ANY president.
==
What does Apple have to do with anything? It is one stock.
Show the Class where the Market dropped 15% or more since March 2009.
Who cares what someone says may happen in the future? You make many foolish predictions that ALL prove to be false.
Ah Tootsie, Obama has had FOUR years to fix what ever Bush did and he can't. Ergo Bush is smarter than Obama is!!!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#117121 Oct 13, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
====
Terri Tanna wrote:
"What down turn? Please provide exact dates of any 10% or 15% decline in the U.S. equity markets. Thank you."
====
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote: Easy, From October 2007 when the high in the DJIA was 14,090 until it bottomed out in March 2009 at 6,547 which is an OVER 50% drop!!!
==
And in the past three week AAPL has dropped 12% and the DJIA has dropped 2.2% and a significant number of experts expect a 10% correct before the election
Terri Tanna wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post suggested a drop while Obama was president. The 58% drop was under G.Bush. Since that trough the administration's policies have created the largest rise in the U.S. equity markets (121%) in the first term of ANY president.
==
What does Apple have to do with anything? It is one stock.
Show the Class where the Market dropped 15% or more since March 2009.
Who cares what someone says may happen in the future? You make many foolish predictions that ALL prove to be false.
Ah Tootsie, You did not state under Obama?!? "What down turn? Please provide exact dates of any 10% or 15% decline in the U.S. equity markets. Thank you." And I did show you!!!
Now, show us exactly what the Obama has done to spur the economy?
And it is just not one person who is saying the economy is in big trouble. I short sold my AAPL stock at 660 and it went up to $705 but it is now down to $630. APPL stock dropped 12% in just three weeks yet I'm ahead!!!
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

#117122 Oct 13, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
That's news? Elk was born within the territorial limits of the US of a quasi-nation within the territorial limits of the US. Neither England nor Kenya are quasi-nations within the territorial limits of the US. Kapiolani Hospital was never within the territorial limits of an Indian reservation, and the President was never a member of an Indian tribe.
UR way off-point.
Grow up!
<quoted text>
that is right, the UK and Kenya are real nations, Obama was born a citizen of his father's real Nation.
Sorry, the Indian Nations bordered the US and were delt with by treaties. The US Constitution had no jurisdiction over them, they weren't citizens, wheather born on their land or off it.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#117123 Oct 13, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>I asked you. Would you care to explain natural law to us.
Relevance?

You quoted Senator Howard. According to Senator Howard, natural law recognized as citizens persons "as were born in the country".

Neither my opinion of natural law nor your play law has anything to do with Senator Howard's stated opinion.

Surely, you don't intend to interpret Senator Howard according to my understanding of natural law. By the same token, you cannot interpret Senator Howard according to your opinion of natural law. Senator Howard's opinion speaks for itself.

“Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

That was HIS opinion of natural law as pertains to citizenship.

Capisce?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you ask? Can't you read?
“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
You think that could be per Vattel? RU on LSD?
Jacques Ottawa

North York, Canada

#117124 Oct 13, 2012
Siouxweety wrote:
<quoted text>
He said "Why is your president trying to get our healthcare system put into your country? Is he bonkers?"
President of what?
Jacques Ottawa

North York, Canada

#117126 Oct 13, 2012
Er, btw, Sioux, who is the 'horse's mouth"? I'll tell you mine. It's me. I've known these things for a long time, both on Universal health care and Illegal aliens. Tell us, what is this source of yours who knows more of Canada than I do? Is he the one who mentioned the President of Canada?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#117128 Oct 13, 2012
Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>that is right, the UK and Kenya are real nations, Obama was born a citizen of his father's real Nation.
Sorry, the Indian Nations bordered the US and were delt with by treaties. The US Constitution had no jurisdiction over them, they weren't citizens, wheather [sic] born on their land or off it.
Huh? Elk concerned persons not born citizens though born within the territorial limits of the United States. Specifically, Indians not taxed.

The UK and Kenya were never within the territorial limits of the US.

Kapiolani Hospital was not on an Indian reservation and the President was not born of an Indian tribe.

Get your head on straight!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
That's news? Elk was born within the territorial limits of the US of a quasi-nation within the territorial limits of the US. Neither England nor Kenya are quasi-nations within the territorial limits of the US. Kapiolani Hospital was never within the territorial limits of an Indian reservation, and the President was never a member of an Indian tribe.
UR way off-point.
Grow up!

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#117129 Oct 13, 2012
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
President of what?
A Canadian man says to my husband, an American citizen: "Why is YOUR president (meaning Barack Obama) trying to get our (referring to Canada's) healthcare system into your country? Is he bonkers.
Jock, unless you are seriously brain damaged, anyone with an ounce of sense can figure out what this meant.
With all the lefties coming on here with their drive by shooting comments of "Birthers are stupid" you would think some of them would notice how stupid people on the left really are.
But then, they are hypocrites.

Jock, please go play your games somewhere else.
Johannes

Yucaipa, CA

#117130 Oct 13, 2012
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea how what I wrote us a lie. I made no statements. That is your response?
Oh, in my haste, the boards. Yes there are boards. Three come to mind. Abortion, specially underarge ones and pulling the plug on comatoze patients. And of individual psyschiatric treatment with, when possible, familial input. I'm glad we have them.
There was no lie.

Your response just didn't agree with Anita's preconceived views.

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