BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...
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LRS

Shreveport, LA

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#117068
Oct 13, 2012
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Non sequitur.
According to Dale's play law, the 14th abolished US jurisdiction over aliens because "the Constitution makes citizens now".
Nonsense.
<quoted text>
1822 doesn't count.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117069
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>If Howard's words are not controlling, why do you post them so much?
Howard was correct! Aliens born here are not subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution.
His words were never controlling, and he understood that.

Why is Dale so upset that I quote his hero's statements that are clearly at odds with birfoon play law?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Despite the fact that Senator Howard's opinion is not controlling, he didn't believe children born in the US of alien parents were subject to a foreign power. Indeed, he believed that such children were born citizens of the United States.
“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
“A citizen of the United States is held by the courts to be a person who was born within the limits of the United States and subject to their laws.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117070
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>They are not subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution until they are citizen.
According to Dale's birfoon play law.

So what?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Play law doesn't count.
"temporary allegiance. The impermanent allegiance owed to a state by a resident alien during the period of residence."
Black's Law Dictionary, 9th Edition.
“...of the compact also redound to aliens residing within the territory of the United States, who are deemed to owe TEMPORARY ALLEGIANCE to the United States and thereby are entitled to the reciprocal protections of the Constitution. See United States v. Barona....”(emphasis added)
Ashkir v. U.S., 46 Fed.Cl. 438, 2000 WL 348805, Fed.Cl., April 04, 2000 (NO. 96-351L).

Since: Dec 08

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#117071
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Johannes wrote:
<quoted text>
So what did the man from Canada say to your husband?
He said "Why is your president trying to get our healthcare system put into your country? Is he bonkers?"
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

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#117072
Oct 13, 2012
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
His statements are not controlling, and they don't agree with birfoon fantasy. Sorry.
<quoted text>
Controlling enough to get the Citizenship Clause ratified in 1868.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

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#117073
Oct 13, 2012
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Non sequitur.
According to Dale's play law, the 14th abolished US jurisdiction over aliens because "the Constitution makes citizens now".
Nonsense.
<quoted text>
nothing to abolish, aliens have never been under the jurisdiction of the Constitution.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117074
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>No, I don't have to use Vattel!
This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already (Civil Rights Act), that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction(US Constitution), is by virtue of natural law and national law (Civil Rights Act) a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States.
Was Howard using Vattel in he above (natural law)?
He was using neither Vattel nor birfoon play law.

“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

“A citizen of the United States is held by the courts to be a person who was born within the limits of the United States and subject to their laws.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

Sorry.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
of course Dale doesn't have to use Vattel when he has play law.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117076
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Controlling enough to get the Citizenship Clause ratified in 1868.
All concerned were aware that his words would never be controlling in a court of law.

Sorry. Play law doesn't count.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
His statements are not controlling, and they don't agree with birfoon fantasy. Sorry.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117077
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>nothing to abolish, aliens have never been under the jurisdiction of the Constitution.
UR going in circles.

Birfoon: "sorry, the Constitution makes citizens now."
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Non sequitur.
According to Dale's play law, the 14th abolished US jurisdiction over aliens because "the Constitution makes citizens now".
Nonsense.
<quoted text>
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

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#117078
Oct 13, 2012
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
He was using neither Vattel nor birfoon play law.
“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
“A citizen of the United States is held by the courts to be a person who was born within the limits of the United States and subject to their laws.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
Sorry.
<quoted text>
How do you know he wasn't using Vattel, looks like it from what you posted.

“SAVING BIRTHERS FROM IGNORANCE”

Since: Jul 09

The Farm North of Hinsdale

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#117081
Oct 13, 2012
 

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President Starky wrote:
Ryan lost no votes for his pro-life stance.
No one who is in Opus Dei can vote for Ryan after the debate and a non-Christian.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

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#117082
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
<quoted text>How do you know he wasn't using Vattel, looks like it from what you posted.
“Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).

U think he was "using" Vattel?

UR going in circles.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
He was using neither Vattel nor birfoon play law.
“They became such in virtue of national law, or rather natural law which recognizes persons born within the jurisdiction of every country as being subjects or citizens of that country. Such persons were, therefore, citizens of the United States as were born in the country or were made by naturalization.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
“A citizen of the United States is held by the courts to be a person who was born within the limits of the United States and subject to their laws.” Senator Jacob Howard, Cong. Globe 39th Cong., 1st Sess, 2765 (1866).
Sorry.
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

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#117083
Oct 13, 2012
 

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wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
UR going in circles.
Birfoon: "sorry, the Constitution makes citizens now."
<quoted text>
In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, the court was specifically asked to address “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” and held it meant:


The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them (U.S.) direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.

Obama was born a citizen of his father's nation a fact you can't change.

“SAVING BIRTHERS FROM IGNORANCE”

Since: Jul 09

The Farm North of Hinsdale

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#117084
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Terri Tanna wrote:
"PAUL RYAN IS EXCOMMUNICATED LATAE SENTENTIAE BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WHILE LOSING THE ENTIRE CATHOLIC VOTE – BOTH CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL"
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President Starky wrote:
Link?
LINK? There is no "link." How stupid.
I posted extensively earlier today from the exact words of the infallible doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church on the subject of killing children while they are still in the womb of their mothers. Please consult the widely-circulated documents of the Roman Catholic Church that are everywhere.
Do you need a link to know that Joe DiMaggio was a baseball player who was married to Marilyn Monroe?

“SAVING BIRTHERS FROM IGNORANCE”

Since: Jul 09

The Farm North of Hinsdale

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#117085
Oct 13, 2012
 

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President Starky wrote:
Link?
Not everything is a "link." How uneducated. Most of the important stuff is in that new media: PRINTED BOOKS!
Justice Dale

Wichita, KS

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#117087
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Grand Birther wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, still going on about this, huh?
It's sad that you've not yet learned how wrong you are. It's worse that you do not understand our nation's laws.
You do realize that people more learned than yourself have more eloquently made similar arguments and have lost miserably, and for more than 125 years now too.
It must suck to be a birfer, Justice Derp.
In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, the court was specifically asked to address “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” and held it meant:


The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them (U.S.) direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.

Obama was born a citizen of his father's nation, fact.

“SAVING BIRTHERS FROM IGNORANCE”

Since: Jul 09

The Farm North of Hinsdale

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#117088
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
The USSC did neither. The 14th is as it was in 1868, with all of the backup material.
BACK UP MATERIAL??
There is no such thing in legislation. The plain words of the statute speak for themselves without any annotation.
Did you miss the first 800-years of our grand tradition of Anglo-American jurisprudence, "justice?"

“SAVING BIRTHERS FROM IGNORANCE”

Since: Jul 09

The Farm North of Hinsdale

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#117089
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Justice Dale wrote:
I don't have to use Vattel, do I, Howard didn't, unless he was talking about Vattel when he stated natural law.
Where is natural law written down, so that EVERYONE can read it?
Why do you keep avoiding this most basic question? Is it because there is no natural law, that it is merely a construct?
Who do you think first described natural law? Do you have any background as a natural law theorist as many people who went to real colleges are?

Since: May 10

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#117090
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Terri Tanna wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
"If Obama has been responsible for the recovery of the stock market, he is responsible for the down turn!!!"
Terri Tanna wrote:
What down turn? Please provide exact dates of any 10% or 15% decline in the U.S. equity markets. Thank you.
Easy, From October 2007 when the high in the DJIA was 14,090 until it bottomed out in March 2009 at 6,547 which is an OVER 50% drop!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DJIA_2000s_... (log).svg

And in the past three week AAPL has dropped 12% and the DJIA has dropped 2.2% and a significant number of experts expect a 10% correct before the election. And if it does, who's fault will it be? Remember, you have given Obama 100% of the credit for it's rise so will it be his fault if it corrects down 10% or more?
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

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#117091
Oct 13, 2012
 

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Siouxweety wrote:
<quoted text>
You are lying.
Face it.
You got caught lying.
I have no idea how what I wrote us a lie. I made no statements. That is your response?
Oh, in my haste, the boards. Yes there are boards. Three come to mind. Abortion, specially underarge ones and pulling the plug on comatoze patients. And of individual psyschiatric treatment with, when possible, familial input. I'm glad we have them.

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