Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#42 Mar 7, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's take her infertility out of this. Would you feel the same way if he got married under the pretense of having a family(and she was on board with the game plan) but then 2 years in, she decided she changed her mind and no longer wanted to have children? Not saying the 2 situations are equal, but would you be ok with him calling it quits under those circumstances?
To me it's about intent. She "changed her mind"? That sounds more like to me a bait and switch and I'd have trouble believing that someone changed their mind on such an issue.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#43 Mar 7, 2013
RACE wrote:
You call it having a baby, but others call it having a family, and yeah, I think that is a valid reason if that was the plan. The fact that she is not considering any alternatives strikes me as suspect on her attempts to become preggers. Maybe she is really on some contraceptive.
<quoted text>
Alternatives? She has one: Adoption. And after going through fertility treatments (which are painful, expensive, and heart breaking), she may not be up for the emotional roller coaster of adoption.

If he can't respect and understand that, she's better off without him.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#44 Mar 7, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's take her infertility out of this. Would you feel the same way if he got married under the pretense of having a family(and she was on board with the game plan) but then 2 years in, she decided she changed her mind and no longer wanted to have children? Not saying the 2 situations are equal, but would you be ok with him calling it quits under those circumstances?
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this grounds for an annulment in the Catholic Church?

Not that they are big on the til death do us part bit at the moment

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#45 Mar 7, 2013
squishymama wrote:
Scenario I: They have a child/children.
Having children plays havoc with your body. And please don't throw the example of Heidi Klum or any other famous, rich skinny mom at me; they are not the norm.
I can name a dozen people I know IRL that have had children and are still in great shape. I disagree that it's not "the norm." I'm of the opinion that gaining weight because you had a kid is a cop-out and a lame excuse.
squishymama wrote:
Having children eats up your time; time that you used to spend working out or going on long runs with your husband. There's double the laundry, double the dishes, double the mess.
If the mother works, that's even less time to devote to fitness. There's travel time between home/work/daycare that sucks up even more time.
And by the time she is done taking care of everyone else in the family, she is exhausted and falls asleep every night at 9.
So what? I haven't worked out in a gym in probably over a year. I haven't even gone jogging or running around the neighborhood since we've gotten all this cold and snow. I've still managed to not gain a pound. There are other ways to stay fit and healthy without working out. Try not eating so much, ESPECIALLY if you're not active.
squishymama wrote:
Scenario II: No kids
She has plenty of time to devote to fitness, even if she works.
She is just lazy or she has a medical problem.
See the difference?
I don't see the difference at all. If she had medical problems,(while I still think that may be a poor excuse, depending on the problem) the LW failed to mention it.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#46 Mar 7, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I can name a dozen people I know IRL that have had children and are still in great shape. I disagree that it's not "the norm." I'm of the opinion that gaining weight because you had a kid is a cop-out and a lame excuse.
And I can name 2 dozen who are having trouble losing the baby weight. I win!

If it's not the norm, then why do you see so many fat momma's?

Opine away. Until you have a mate who's had a baby, they don't mean squat.
edogxxx wrote:
So what? I haven't worked out in a gym in probably over a year. I haven't even gone jogging or running around the neighborhood since we've gotten all this cold and snow. I've still managed to not gain a pound. There are other ways to stay fit and healthy without working out. Try not eating so much, ESPECIALLY if you're not active.
And you haven't had children to tend to either. There is a big difference between caring for just you and caring for a whole family.
edogxxx wrote:
I don't see the difference at all. If she had medical problems,(while I still think that may be a poor excuse, depending on the problem) the LW failed to mention it.
He failed to mention alot. Which was my original point!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#47 Mar 7, 2013
squishymama wrote:
If it's not the norm, then why do you see so many fat momma's?
Just because a majority of Americans are fatass hefers doesn't mean it's "acceptable."
squishymama wrote:
And you haven't had children to tend to either. There is a big difference between caring for just you and caring for a whole family.
If a woman finds time to shove godam twinkies into her mouth all day, she can find time to get her massive bulk on a freakin tread-mil!

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#48 Mar 7, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because a majority of Americans are fatass hefers doesn't mean it's "acceptable."
<quoted text>
If a woman finds time to shove godam twinkies into her mouth all day, she can find time to get her massive bulk on a freakin tread-mil!
"The norm" and "acceptable" do not mean the same thing.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#49 Mar 7, 2013
Foster parent?
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Alternatives? She has one: Adoption. And after going through fertility treatments (which are painful, expensive, and heart breaking), she may not be up for the emotional roller coaster of adoption.
If he can't respect and understand that, she's better off without him.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#50 Mar 7, 2013
RACE wrote:
Foster parent?
<quoted text>
Surrogate?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#51 Mar 7, 2013
RACE wrote:
Foster parent?
<quoted text>
No.

Talk to people who can't have kids and hear how hurtful those comments/suggestions are. Taking in other people's damaged children is no substitute for having your own kid (or adopting an infant) and raising him from the beginning.

Some people are cut out for foster parenting, some aren't. Many of those who aren't are fine parents of their own kids.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#52 Mar 7, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Surrogate?
Right, for a minimum of about $10K.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#53 Mar 7, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, for a minimum of about $10K.
You presented adoption as her only option. Now you're going to balk at the cost off surrogacy? Pretty sure adoption costs more than 2 nickels.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#54 Mar 8, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>You presented adoption as her only option. Now you're going to balk at the cost off surrogacy? Pretty sure adoption costs more than 2 nickels.
I don't think I presented adoption as her only option. SHE ruled it out, why would I Push her to adopt?

Adoption is mostly free if you go through a government entity like the county or state. PRivate adoptions cost money.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#55 Mar 8, 2013
I read what I posted. I didn't present adoption as her alternative. I said she's not likely to want to go through with it after all the pain and emotions of trying to conceive unsucceessfully for three years. Surrogacy is expensive and I don't think it's even legal in every state.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#56 Mar 8, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I read what I posted. I didn't present adoption as her alternative.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Alternatives? She has one: Adoption.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I said she's not likely to want to go through with it after all the pain and emotions of trying to conceive unsucceessfully for three years.
Whether she would want to do it or not is another matter. You claimed it to be her only alternative. I've presented another. And I forgot what Race suggested, but he offered yet another.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#57 Mar 8, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think I presented adoption as her only option. SHE ruled it out, why would I Push her to adopt?
Adoption is mostly free if you go through a government entity like the county or state. Private adoptions cost money.
I've never heard of a free adoption. Every conversation on this board about adoption has touched on the great expense. Why do I always hear about how difficult it is to adopt? Are you talking about BABIES? Or are you talking about a 4 year old taken from his crack addict parents that the government wants to place in a better home?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#58 Mar 8, 2013
FYI (I was wondering so I looked it up):

"Adopting from the U.S. foster care system is generally the least expensive type of adoption, usually involving little or no cost, and states often provide subsidies to adoptive parents. Stepparent and kinship adoptions are often not very costly. Agency and private adoptions can range from $5,000 to $40,000 or more depending on a variety of factors including services provided, travel expenses, birthmother expenses, requirements in the state, and other factors. International adoptions can range from $7,000 to $30,000. "

The link: http://costs.adoption.com/

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#59 Mar 8, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> I've never heard of a free adoption. Every conversation on this board about adoption has touched on the great expense. Why do I always hear about how difficult it is to adopt? Are you talking about BABIES? Or are you talking about a 4 year old taken from his crack addict parents that the government wants to place in a better home?
ADopting babies generally is done through private adoption, although it also does happen through state agencies -- there are some fees, but it's not out of reach of most middle-income couples. ADopting privately, however, will cost thousands at a minimum.

Adopting older kids (like otu of foster care) generally is free or next to free, and many states now let the kids stay on the state's medical plan if they have illness/disabilities, because in the past, the medical issues was something that made them unadoptable, because people knew they couldn't afford the future medical expenses.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#60 Mar 8, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Adopting babies generally is done through private adoption,.
It takes a special person to want to adopt older children. I applaud them. I'm not one of them. If my wife could not conceive and we turned to adoption, I highly doubt that we would be considering older children. We would want a BABY. We would want to have as close to the typical child raising experience as possible. Am I outside the norm in my approach? I don't think so, which is why I think its apples and oranges to compare the cost of surrogacy to the cost of government adoption. Surrogacy vs private adoption is a more likely consideration.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#61 Mar 8, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> It takes a special person to want to adopt older children. I applaud them. I'm not one of them. If my wife could not conceive and we turned to adoption, I highly doubt that we would be considering older children. We would want a BABY. We would want to have as close to the typical child raising experience as possible. Am I outside the norm in my approach? I don't think so, which is why I think its apples and oranges to compare the cost of surrogacy to the cost of government adoption. Surrogacy vs private adoption is a more likely consideration.
I think MOST couples would want a baby (or at the oldest, a kid of age 2 or 3 tops). THey want the whole experience, from infancy through teenage and early adult years. I don't blame 'em one bit.

I worked with a woman who told me about friends of her who had two kids, and then adopted two troubled kids out of foster care, who were OLDER than her two kids, and it was a nightmare. I'd just read a (the) definitive book on birth order and knew that this was not the smartest move on the parents' part -- you can't mess with birth order like that. They should have waited until their own kids were older then they could adopt kids who were younger. The bio kids resented this intrusion into their lives because every thing changed so drastically overnight.

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