Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#41 Jun 20, 2013
PEllen wrote:
I am not picking a fight with you. However, by cut-and-pasting the things that you are posting you have set a standard for yourself. That's where I am calling you out.
Edog bring a lot of grief onto his own head. He baits people and to that extent, he gets what he deserves. But he is entitled to his views as is Red ,Race and as are you.
If you choose to toss gratuitous comments about stupidity at someone be prepared acknowledge them as opinion or to back it up.
Oh, I think you are trying to either pick a fight or act like the mommy of this forum. Who died and left you moderator? Skip over the post if you don't like it. I gave you an answer. More than one.

As I said, Edog can take care of himself. He's entitled to his views and so am I. I agree with that.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#42 Jun 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That is patently untrue.
Well then the dots did not connect from your reply to the post you replied to. Or perhaps you decided not to connect the dots in that instance.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#43 Jun 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
Not all day, I do have other things to attend to.
Something being a wise choice is totally relative to the individual. Some here have said that I am unwise to carry outside my home, others have said I am unwise to carry Inside my home.
To me, both groups are wrong and have no clue as to the wisdom of my choices.
<quoted text>
I ran across this and I agree with it. Something to ponder:

"I would keep the gun loaded, as long as it was locked away. It only takes less than a second (with practice) to get it out of a quick access combination lock safe. Please do not leave a loaded weapon lying around unsecured, the typical burglar is not a professional thief but one of the teenagers or young adults who lives in the neighborhood. Having your gun securely stowed reduces the liklihood of such a person gaining access to your weapon. Leaving a gun lying around guarantees that anyone who gains access to your home will also be armed with a gun."

The above saved me a lot of typing b/c I agree with it 100%.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#44 Jun 20, 2013
HA! I challenge anyone to that. And have you ever tried to work a safe under duress? Your fingers and hands would more than likely be shaking, increasing the time needed.

Maybe one of the newer ones that work on palm prints.

But I do agree that if you are not home, then lock up your weapons, and if you are home, arm yourself.

Saw on the news where a guys gun safe was stolen, things weigh like 800 lbs. Supposedly he even had it bolted to the floor, but the pictures showed the bolts with the nuts on them. Thing is, those bolts go to the inside of the safe, so if it really was bolted down, then the bolts would have to been broken to remove the safe, or the safe would have to have been opened, and the bolts removed. But srsly, if you are a thief and you crack a safe are you going to steal the safe AND the contents, or just the contents? I think he did it for the insurance.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
It only takes less than a second (with practice) to get it out of a quick access combination lock safe.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Marcus Hook, PA

#45 Jun 20, 2013
Toj wrote:
It was obvious -- at lesat to me ( guess not to YOU -- that Red was talking about a father getting prosecuted for keeping a handgun where a 4 year old could have access to it.
Then Edog was either playing stupid -- not getting the fact it was b/c the gun was accessible to a 4 year old and the adult was responsible for that child and for his loaded gun, or he was doing his usual changing the subject.
You're still wrong. It's not even illegal to keep a gun "where a four year old could have access to it." I can keep a loaded gun on my table whether I have a four year old or not. And what subject am I changing?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Marcus Hook, PA

#46 Jun 20, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
C'mon edog -- you live in Illinois. You can't see someone bending this rule to fit a myriad of situations?
Let's say you have a loaded gun on you inside your house. For whatever reason. Or let's say on your kitchen table. Let's stick with the kitchen table. You forget to put the safety on if it has one.
You forget you left your gym bag on the floor as you're walking and you trip right into the table, the gun flings off from the force, fires and you window is open and, just by happenstance, the bullet lodges into the kid playing next door in the backyard.
Oh I can see them applying the law to that and anything else they can get their hands on.
Hate to break it to you, sweetheart, but even in THAT scenario, I have broken no laws.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Marcus Hook, PA

#47 Jun 20, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then the dots did not connect from your reply to the post you replied to. Or perhaps you decided not to connect the dots in that instance.
The dots didn't connect for YOU. Face it, you're wrong.

And that's not my opinion, that is fact.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#48 Jun 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
HA! I challenge anyone to that. And have you ever tried to work a safe under duress? Your fingers and hands would more than likely be shaking, increasing the time needed.
Maybe one of the newer ones that work on palm prints.
But I do agree that if you are not home, then lock up your weapons, and if you are home, arm yourself.
Saw on the news where a guys gun safe was stolen, things weigh like 800 lbs. Supposedly he even had it bolted to the floor, but the pictures showed the bolts with the nuts on them. Thing is, those bolts go to the inside of the safe, so if it really was bolted down, then the bolts would have to been broken to remove the safe, or the safe would have to have been opened, and the bolts removed. But srsly, if you are a thief and you crack a safe are you going to steal the safe AND the contents, or just the contents? I think he did it for the insurance.
<quoted text>
I wouldn't own a gun so it's a moot point for me.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#49 Jun 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still wrong. It's not even illegal to keep a gun "where a four year old could have access to it." I can keep a loaded gun on my table whether I have a four year old or not. And what subject am I changing?
I'll see what I can find in Illinois, but since we have someone on the forum here that's in Minesota, here's a starter for you:

"Another state law all parents should know, advises Jon Roesler, senior epidemiologist with the Minnesota Department of Health Injury and Violence Prevention Unit, is that loaded guns must not be accessible to anyone under age 18. "Basically that means guns have to be locked in a cabinet or have trigger locks," he says. Conservation officers say that, despite the conflict in wording, the law was not intended to keep guns out of the hands of supervised youngsters or those who have earned a DNR firearms safety certificate."

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#50 Jun 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still wrong. It's not even illegal to keep a gun "where a four year old could have access to it." I can keep a loaded gun on my table whether I have a four year old or not. And what subject am I changing?
Sigh. I'm right. Here's Illnois.

"Illinois law (720 ILCS 5/24-9) states:

"(a) Except as provided in subsection (c), it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is:
secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or
placed in a securely locked box or container; or
placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.
(b) Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor."

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#51 Jun 20, 2013
No, your are still wrong.
emutt says that he can have a loaded weapon where a 4yr old has access to it, and he is correct. From your quote....

unless the firearm is:
secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable;

You are jumping to the conclusion that he is specifically stating that the weapon will be in violation of this condition, and he is not saying that. Of course he is also not saying that it wont be either, but as long as the weapon meets that criteria he is correct.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Sigh. I'm right. Here's Illnois.
"Illinois law (720 ILCS 5/24-9) states:
"(a) Except as provided in subsection (c), it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is:
secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or
placed in a securely locked box or container; or
placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.
(b) Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor."

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#52 Jun 20, 2013
Good, more for me!
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't own a gun so it's a moot point for me.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#53 Jun 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
No, your are still wrong.
emutt says that he can have a loaded weapon where a 4yr old has access to it, and he is correct. From your quote....
unless the firearm is:
secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable;
You are jumping to the conclusion that he is specifically stating that the weapon will be in violation of this condition, and he is not saying that. Of course he is also not saying that it wont be either, but as long as the weapon meets that criteria he is correct.
<quoted text>
That's splitting hairs.

Okay. Edog can have a gun loaded on his kitchen table with a four year old.

Go for it!

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#54 Jun 20, 2013
No its not, its quantifying the statement. but whatever, my point was you were calling him stupid for the wrong reason.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
That's splitting hairs.
Okay. Edog can have a gun loaded on his kitchen table with a four year old.
Go for it!

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#55 Jun 20, 2013
I think edog is wrong that you can legally keep a loaded gun where a y oung child can have access to it.

But I agree with Race in that what protection can you get from an unloaded gun kept locked away, separate from ammunition (also locked away)?

ZEro. There's no point in even owning it, then, unless you keep it all in your bedroom for middle-of-the-night break-ins.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#56 Jun 20, 2013
Toj wrote:
Sigh. I'm right. Here's Illnois.
"Illinois law (720 ILCS 5/24-9) states:
"(a) Except as provided in subsection (c), it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is:
secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or
placed in a securely locked box or container; or
placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.
(b) Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor."
So it's illegal to keep a loaded gun in a four year old's playpen. That I'll grant you. But it's not illegal to keep it where I assume it's out of his reach.(Kitchen table? How low to the ground is your table? What's the average height of a 4 yr old?) But I still call BS on Angela's story because unless the laws in Minnesota are FAR more strict, the man shouldn't have been given anything more than a fine. And I also don't believe most four year olds have the dexterity and strength to point and fire a gun, unless it's quite small.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#57 Jun 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
No its not, its quantifying the statement. but whatever, my point was you were calling him stupid for the wrong reason.
<quoted text>
You are very much entitled to your opinion.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#58 Jun 20, 2013
Toj wrote:
That's splitting hairs.
Not that I'm above doing it myself, but you've ALL been splitting hairs with this all day. You included.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#59 Jun 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
But it's not illegal to keep it where I assume it's out of his reach.(Kitchen table? How low to the ground is your table? What's the average height of a 4 yr old?)
Dude, a 2 year old can get on the kitchen table without assistance.
edogxxx wrote:
And I also don't believe most four year olds have the dexterity and strength to point and fire a gun, unless it's quite small.
or they drop it and it discharges

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#60 Jun 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
No its not, its quantifying the statement. but whatever, my point was you were calling him stupid for the wrong reason.
Toj wrote:
You are very much entitled to your opinion.
Well why don't we just clear this up right now.

Race & Toj, would each of you please explain exactly why you think edogg is stupid. Be specific.

:)

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