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“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#21 Dec 18, 2013
pde wrote:
Who is "we" in the above sentence?
Well... you know.. We... Us... The American liberals.... The way America SHOULD be. Anyone against us are just racists homophobes who hate women. Right?
pde wrote:
Are you actually claiming you're Catholic? I'm not sure even the Catholic Church would be happy about that.
The Catholic Church would agree. You're right, I'm just some mumble-mumble protestant. And a bad one at that. Hell, I don't even think the protestant church wants me...
:(
pde

Palatine, IL

#22 Dec 18, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Well... you know.. We... Us... The American liberals.... The way America SHOULD be. Anyone against us are just racists homophobes who hate women. Right?
I know plenty of American liberals who are also Catholics ...

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#23 Dec 18, 2013
pde wrote:
I know plenty of American liberals who are also Catholics ...
Then they must think the Church should evolve around changing societal practices and not be held to steadfast religious teachings?
pde

Gilberts, IL

#24 Dec 18, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Then they must think the Church should evolve around changing societal practices and not be held to steadfast religious teachings?
Anyone who studies history is well aware that while the Catholic Church lags, it eventually does evolve. The Catholic Church has undergone massive changes even in the past century, see Vatican II.

Also, the Catholic Church has a very strong, historical underpinning of seeking social justice and advocating for the poor, a position that fits a lot better with current liberal than conservative policy. Catholics have never been a reliable conservative group in the US. You are aware that the Chicago machine is also very strongly associated with the Irish Catholics, right?

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#25 Dec 18, 2013
anignoranttwat wrote:
<quoted text>
Moon doesn't like any of you either.
Do not presume to speak for me you foul, ignorant pile of waste. You know nothing.
I like most people.
You, however, don't even qualify as human in my book.
You're a waste of space and oxygen, the sooner that stops, the better for the world.
pde

Gilberts, IL

#26 Dec 18, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>
Do not presume to speak for me you foul, ignorant pile of waste. You know nothing.
I like most people.
You, however, don't even qualify as human in my book.
You're a waste of space and oxygen, the sooner that stops, the better for the world.
I didn't see the post you replied to, but go NWmoon!

I like your posts. I kind of fall on the side of simply accepting how people wish to identify since it's no skin off my nose, but I know there's a whole gender studies world out there that I have little familiarity with.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#27 Dec 19, 2013
pde wrote:
Also, the Catholic Church has a very strong, historical underpinning of seeking social justice and advocating for the poor, a position that fits a lot better with current liberal than conservative policy. Catholics have never been a reliable conservative group in the US. You are aware that the Chicago machine is also very strongly associated with the Irish Catholics, right?
Right, when I think of a liberal organization, the Catholic Church is the first thing that pops into my head.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#29 Dec 19, 2013
Ha ha!
Thats funny!
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Guess that means I'm right
pde

Gilberts, IL

#30 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, when I think of a liberal organization, the Catholic Church is the first thing that pops into my head.
If we're talking about liberal and conservative as currently defined within the American political spectrum, nor is the Catholic Church a (politically) conservative organization.

The Catholic Church's teachings disagree with positions of both current American liberals and current American conservatives. The difference is that the liberal side of things tends to advocate for the legalization of behavior which is about personal sin (sin that affects yourself or those intimate with you) while the conservative side of things currently advocates for the government to make law requiring/engage in what is sinful behavior.

Abortion, birth control, IVF, etc are sins. They are personal sins. If I don't want those sins on my soul (if I was still Catholic and believed those were sins) I can avoid those sins by choosing not to engage in that behavior.

Advocating capitalism in its most socially harmful forms, advocating for corporations to be allowed to or even encouraged to engage in behavior which harms individuals, and choosing to elect those who institutionalize those positions into law makes them sins I cannot avoid having on my soul. Choosing to elect politicians who want to institutionalize those sins isn't like choosing to elect politicians who want abortion to be legal ... it would more like choosing to elect politicians who want to put into law requirements to have abortions under certain circumstances.

Given that the Church's teachings do not align with either side in current US politics, US Catholics are encouraged to pray, reflect, and decide which side they choose to involve themselves in. And in general, more US Catholics do identify as Democratic than Republican (stats I just found say it tends to cover around 60% D and 40% R). Liberal organizations which focus purely on social justice issue tend to both have a good number of Catholic members, and often be supported by the Catholic Church.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Philadelphia, PA

#31 Dec 19, 2013
Hmmm, capitalism should be a sin. I'll have to reflect on that.
pde

Palatine, IL

#32 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
Hmmm, capitalism should be a sin. I'll have to reflect on that.
No, advocating capitalism in its most socially harmful forms should be considered a sin. Advocating capitalism without controls, without the most basic of regulation to protect people.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#33 Dec 19, 2013
RACE wrote:
Ha ha!
Thats funny!
<quoted text>
It is. Several of the people on this thread are my friends. I interact with them nearly every day. He's just jealous.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#34 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Then they must think the Church should evolve around changing societal practices and not be held to steadfast religious teachings?
Yeah the ones who believe in Vatican II and all that stuff.

Oh is that the group that used to ell indulgences and all that?

I am not Catholic and even I know that their belief system has evolved in the last 1980 years.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#35 Dec 19, 2013
PEllen wrote:
I am not Catholic and even I know that their belief system has evolved in the last 1980 years.
That's not quite what I meant. My fault for not explaining it more specifically. I meant they shouldn't just change their religious teachings based on what is popular TODAY, whatever the flavor of the week happens to be.

Some people think they should change their views on gays because gay marriage has gained popularity in the last five years or so.

They should change their views on abortion because more and more people think there should be nothing wrong with being a wh0 re and killing the innocent consequence of your bad decisions anymore.

That's not how religion works. People should follow the teachings of the church, not the other way around.
pde

Palatine, IL

#36 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not how religion works. People should follow the teachings of the church, not the other way around.
And many teachings of the Catholic Church are in opposition to specific policies being pushed by the conservative movement/Republican party in the US, which is why US Catholics tend more toward being politically liberal.(If you associate being a Democrat with being politically liberal.)

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#37 Dec 19, 2013
pde wrote:
which is why US Catholics tend more toward being politically liberal.(If you associate being a Democrat with being politically liberal.)
I don't, actually -( I admit I USED to, but facts changed my opinion)-. Democrats tend to be moderates. Liberals are an extreme minority that have "hijacked" the democrat party, and shall be their undoing. I guess you haven't heard about the BLACK leaders of the Catholic churches in Chicago who have voiced their opposition to gay marriage? No surprise given our state-run liberal media.
pde

Gilberts, IL

#38 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't, actually -( I admit I USED to, but facts changed my opinion)-. Democrats tend to be moderates. Liberals are an extreme minority that have "hijacked" the democrat party, and shall be their undoing. I guess you haven't heard about the BLACK leaders of the Catholic churches in Chicago who have voiced their opposition to gay marriage? No surprise given our state-run liberal media.
Wow. You do live in a mirror universe.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#39 Dec 19, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not quite what I meant. My fault for not explaining it more specifically. I meant they shouldn't just change their religious teachings based on what is popular TODAY, whatever the flavor of the week happens to be.
Some people think they should change their views on gays because gay marriage has gained popularity in the last five years or so.
They should change their views on abortion because more and more people think there should be nothing wrong with being a wh0 re and killing the innocent consequence of your bad decisions anymore.
That's not how religion works. People should follow the teachings of the church, not the other way around.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Vatican /Pope had not ruled abortion wa a sin until some time in the mid 1800's roughly the time when medical skills developed for a surgical pregnancy termination.

There is a long history of herbal abortifacients which the Church just ignored.
pde

Palatine, IL

#40 Dec 20, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Vatican /Pope had not ruled abortion wa a sin until some time in the mid 1800's roughly the time when medical skills developed for a surgical pregnancy termination.
There is a long history of herbal abortifacients which the Church just ignored.
I thought it was even more recent than that, but yes, at least during some points of history, the Catholic Church taught that abortion was only a sin after the quickening (the first time the woman felt movement).

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