Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#21 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
I am not discussing my preferences. I am discussing what the LW said. Why is it different? "Just because" is not a valid answer.
<quoted text>
Sometimes if you think about things how you would feel, you get a notion of what they may mean.
Kuuipo

Marina, CA

#22 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
So your answer is the same as Lamy's.
It just is different, with no logic to support it, other than to say that men are pervs and women aren't.
You also say that you have no idea what turns a gay woman on, but you insist it cant possibly be the same triggers that a man would have, even though they both are attracted to women. So it's ok if they watch teens in the locker room.
To me, this sounds very biased.
<quoted text>
Again, I never said that men are pervs. Never said that, didn't imply that. I said that men, generally, are more visually oriented when it comes to arousal. Do you disagree with that? Again, how many p0rn sites are there targeted at men? How many targeted at women? How many men enjoy reading romance novels and watching chick flicks? How is acknowledging the differences between men and women biased?

Now as far as watching teens in the locker room, what I said was when I was in school, we had lesbian gym teachers and we were uncomfortable with it then as well. Maybe you would have been uncomfortable with a gay male gym teacher watching you when you were a teen. I also said that I don't think that public schools are going to ban gay gym teachers any time soon.

From an adult perspective, I think that I, personally, not speaking for anyone else, was uncomfortable because I was shy to begin with and not used to undressing in front of anyone, and because I had never known any other lesbians besides our gym teachers. I am not a parent, but if I had a daughter, I would tell her that the teachers are just doing their jobs and unless they do something inappropriate, it's just something that we have to get accustomed to. If the teacher does anything inappropriate, she will lose her job, so it is in her best interest to behave professionally.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#23 Jul 18, 2014
But you are implying it when you say that a gay woman can patrol the locker room but a man cant. Your saying that men cant be trusted, but a gay woman can be.

To me that is saying that men are pervs. Please explain how I am wrong.
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I never said that men are pervs. Never said that, didn't imply that. I said that men, generally, are more visually oriented when it comes to arousal. Do you disagree with that? Again, how many p0rn sites are there targeted at men? How many targeted at women? How many men enjoy reading romance novels and watching chick flicks? How is acknowledging the differences between men and women biased?
Now as far as watching teens in the locker room, what I said was when I was in school, we had lesbian gym teachers and we were uncomfortable with it then as well. Maybe you would have been uncomfortable with a gay male gym teacher watching you when you were a teen. I also said that I don't think that public schools are going to ban gay gym teachers any time soon.
From an adult perspective, I think that I, personally, not speaking for anyone else, was uncomfortable because I was shy to begin with and not used to undressing in front of anyone, and because I had never known any other lesbians besides our gym teachers. I am not a parent, but if I had a daughter, I would tell her that the teachers are just doing their jobs and unless they do something inappropriate, it's just something that we have to get accustomed to. If the teacher does anything inappropriate, she will lose her job, so it is in her best interest to behave professionally.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#24 Jul 18, 2014
Who is "they"?
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes if you think about things how you would feel, you get a notion of what they may mean.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#25 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
Who is "they"?
<quoted text>
Amy and Kuippo and others who may feel that way about having males vs. a lesbian in a locker room with teens.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#26 Jul 18, 2014
I did not ask how they felt, I asked them to explain the difference, and I still have not gotten an answer.
Do you know the answer?
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Amy and Kuippo and others who may feel that way about having males vs. a lesbian in a locker room with teens.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#27 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
I did not ask how they felt, I asked them to explain the difference, and I still have not gotten an answer.
Do you know the answer?
<quoted text>
I have my answer. A lesbian woman does not make females feel as threatened while they are dressing (and therefore may feel vunerable at that time) as a male teacher. In my view it is about feelings and not about the actual person.
Kuuipo

Marina, CA

#28 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
But you are implying it when you say that a gay woman can patrol the locker room but a man cant. Your saying that men cant be trusted, but a gay woman can be.
To me that is saying that men are pervs. Please explain how I am wrong.
<quoted text>
I never said that men cannot be trusted or that they are pervs. Nor did I imply that. Nor did I say that I was comfortable with a gay woman in the locker room; in fact, I clearly stated that when I was a teen, I was NOT comfortable with it.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#29 Jul 18, 2014
So if your going on feelings, why should a lesbian woman be allowed to do it either?
why are the kids feelings ignored then? Your cherry picking.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I have my answer. A lesbian woman does not make females feel as threatened while they are dressing (and therefore may feel vunerable at that time) as a male teacher. In my view it is about feelings and not about the actual person.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#30 Jul 18, 2014
Round and round we go!
The WHY cant a man do it? It they are not pervs, wont diddle themselves or hit on these kids, why is it ok for a lesbian to do it even though the kids are not comfortable with them?
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said that men cannot be trusted or that they are pervs. Nor did I imply that. Nor did I say that I was comfortable with a gay woman in the locker room; in fact, I clearly stated that when I was a teen, I was NOT comfortable with it.
Kuuipo

Marina, CA

#31 Jul 18, 2014
RACE wrote:
Round and round we go!
The WHY cant a man do it? It they are not pervs, wont diddle themselves or hit on these kids, why is it ok for a lesbian to do it even though the kids are not comfortable with them?
<quoted text>
Please tell me that you are not arguing in favor of adult male teachers supervising locker rooms full of teen girls. Because I am not even going to argue that point with you.

The reason that is it acceptable for lesbians to supervise is because they are female and the gym teacher position is gender based, not sexual orientation based. I predict that this will not change, particularly as more laws are enacted that protect people from discrimination based on sexual orientation. What the schools *should* do is design the locker rooms with private showers.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#32 Jul 18, 2014
So you are ok with a lesbian teacher watching girls undress, just because you want to protect her right not to be discriminated against because of the fact that she likes watching girls undress.

Got it.

Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell me that you are not arguing in favor of adult male teachers supervising locker rooms full of teen girls. Because I am not even going to argue that point with you.
The reason that is it acceptable for lesbians to supervise is because they are female and the gym teacher position is gender based, not sexual orientation based. I predict that this will not change, particularly as more laws are enacted that protect people from discrimination based on sexual orientation. What the schools *should* do is design the locker rooms with private showers.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#33 Jul 18, 2014
But! It is ok to discriminate against a male, for that very same reason....

Yeah, Got it.
boundary painter

San Antonio, TX

#34 Jul 19, 2014
RACE wrote:
But! It is ok to discriminate against a male, for that very same reason....
Yeah, Got it.
Well, now, I wouldn't say that.
:)
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

#35 Jul 19, 2014
RACE wrote:
So you are ok with a lesbian teacher watching girls undress, just because you want to protect her right not to be discriminated against because of the fact that she likes watching girls undress.
Got it.
<quoted text>
*I* am not entirely OK with that, no. I have stated at least twice that *I* was uncomfortable with the same situation when I was in school. I *totally* understand LW's daughter's feelings about the situation.

However in my opinion, this is one of those uncomfortable situations in life that we have to deal with. Raising the issue with the school is unlikely to bring about any changes, although original LW can do so and see what the administration has to say about it. Lesbian gym teachers are nothing new.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#36 Jul 19, 2014
My original (and lamy's) was, why is a lesbian allowed to do this but not a normal male. And I have not heard anyone tell why. Kuuipo says that men are more visual and get aroused, but not that it would make the guy a perv, so if its not that the guy would be a perv about it, then what exactly is it that allows this discrimination? Just because he has a peen?

The fact of the matter is that there is NO difference, and if one cant, than neither should the other.
You are all just reacting on your own ick factor, and not from a logical standpoint.
Toj said that girls would be more uncomfortable with a guy and their feelings should be respected, but she is willing to dismiss Kuupio feelings just because its a lesbian and not a male, as if this makes Juupio's feelings worthless and trifle. You are all cherry picking your arguments, and not even seeing your own contradictions is them.

men should not be allowed to supervise a girls locker room and neither should a lesbian. End of Story.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#37 Jul 19, 2014
RACE wrote:
My original (and lamy's) was, why is a lesbian allowed to do this but not a normal male. And I have not heard anyone tell why. Kuuipo says that men are more visual and get aroused, but not that it would make the guy a perv, so if its not that the guy would be a perv about it, then what exactly is it that allows this discrimination? Just because he has a peen?
The fact of the matter is that there is NO difference, and if one cant, than neither should the other.
You are all just reacting on your own ick factor, and not from a logical standpoint.
Toj said that girls would be more uncomfortable with a guy and their feelings should be respected, but she is willing to dismiss Kuupio feelings just because its a lesbian and not a male, as if this makes Juupio's feelings worthless and trifle. You are all cherry picking your arguments, and not even seeing your own contradictions is them.
men should not be allowed to supervise a girls locker room and neither should a lesbian. End of Story.
I am late to this, but here is the diff to me: A woman, regardless of orientation, has the same body as the students. She did the same thing in HS, undressing,and for most that I've talked to on this,(admittedly only four or five) they felt just as uncomfortable undressing in a crowd as the shy straight girls when it was them.
Same for men in the boys' locker room. Same bodies. Nothing new to see there.
I had a couple gay PE teachers too, one in Jr High, one in HS. I wasn't uncomfortable because they were lesbians, I was uncomfortable because of the other students.
I got over it. Most of them will, too.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#38 Jul 19, 2014
your late, but not offering any explanations as to wny gay is better than straight. Again you are offering you own personal views, but you fail to distinguish why a lesbian can do the jpb. but not a male.

At its heighest elevation, why is gay better thatn straight??
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>I am late to this, but here is the diff to me: A woman, regardless of orientation, has the same body as the students. She did the same thing in HS, undressing,and for most that I've talked to on this,(admittedly only four or five) they felt just as uncomfortable undressing in a crowd as the shy straight girls when it was them.
Same for men in the boys' locker room. Same bodies. Nothing new to see there.
I had a couple gay PE teachers too, one in Jr High, one in HS. I wasn't uncomfortable because they were lesbians, I was uncomfortable because of the other students.
I got over it. Most of them will, too.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#39 Jul 19, 2014
RACE wrote:
My original (and lamy's) was, why is a lesbian allowed to do this but not a normal male. And I have not heard anyone tell why. Kuuipo says that men are more visual and get aroused, but not that it would make the guy a perv, so if its not that the guy would be a perv about it, then what exactly is it that allows this discrimination? Just because he has a peen?
The fact of the matter is that there is NO difference, and if one cant, than neither should the other.
You are all just reacting on your own ick factor, and not from a logical standpoint.
Toj said that girls would be more uncomfortable with a guy and their feelings should be respected, but she is willing to dismiss Kuupio feelings just because its a lesbian and not a male, as if this makes Juupio's feelings worthless and trifle. You are all cherry picking your arguments, and not even seeing your own contradictions is them.
men should not be allowed to supervise a girls locker room and neither should a lesbian. End of Story.
I believe the answer you are looking for is this. Societal norms gave long been established ans the lines were drawn at gender. Homosexuals largely stayed on the closet. You cannot look at a person and automaticaly know their sexual orientaition. Even as it has become more socially accptable to come out of the closet, thenorms have already been set. Restrooms are segregated by gender for the same reason. I find it highly unlikely that this gender based norm will ever morph into a sexual preference based norm. Seperate facilities for straight men, gay men, straight women, gay women...

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#40 Jul 19, 2014
RACE wrote:
your late, but not offering any explanations as to wny gay is better than straight. Again you are offering you own personal views, but you fail to distinguish why a lesbian can do the jpb. but not a male.
At its heighest elevation, why is gay better thatn straight??
<quoted text>
First off, I NEVER said gay was better than straight. I said basically it has nothing to do with orientation, but with gender.

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