Report: 4 dead in Pittsburgh-area health club shooting; witness...

There are 20 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Aug 4, 2009, titled Report: 4 dead in Pittsburgh-area health club shooting; witness.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

A Pittsburgh television station says a shooting at a suburban health club has left four people dead, including the shooter.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

Get Real

Ashburn, VA

#36 Aug 5, 2009
Alg Palin wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, people didn't gun each other down 100-150 years ago.
That's right, we were a regular 'law and order' society back then. No crime, no political corruption, nothing. No wild, wild West, right.
Not easy to re-write history when someone is watching.
Typically they did not barge into a populated area and begin firing indiscriminately. Of course shoot outs occurred, but not with the intention of killing as many innocent people as possible.
Confused

Lincolnshire, IL

#37 Aug 5, 2009
Doesn't Pennsylvania allow CONCEAL AND CARRY???? Posters every day are saying that 48 states allow it. I know IL doesn't allow it but I'd find it hard to believe that PA is the other state in the union that doesn't allow it. I thought these crimes would cease to exist if we allow Conceal and Carry. Several people made this statement just yesterday on the Tribune comment board. What say you?
oktoberfest

Dekalb, IL

#38 Aug 5, 2009
Do you know what this guy was 1 hour before the killing spree? A law-abiding citizen. Just like thousands of other Americans right before they go on killing sprees.

If only the women were allowed to carry concealed weapons. Then right before the guy began shooting, they could have pulled handguns out of their leotards and thwarted his attack!
a lesson of sorts

Lincolnshire, IL

#39 Aug 5, 2009
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a horrible way to lose ones life. My heart goes out to all the families grieving their loved ones.
I do have a question for you though. How would you suggest to stop these shootings? Ban guns? It worked great in San Fran, Chicago, DC, et. al. In Europe, where guns are mostly banned, there has been a spike in random and school shootings in the past 10 years. How would you explain that considering their extreme restrictions on guns? Many European cops don't even have guns, and yet if someone wants to go on a shooting spree they always seem to get their hands on one.
A demonstration why urban POLICE like restrictive gun laws:
Suppose this determined gunman walks into a LA Fitness located in the Chicago Loop. He does everything as he did this day but someone in the club hears gun shots. This person becomes angry and gets a determined look on their face and grabs their trusty handgun. A second person in a far corner of the club also hears gunshots, she too gets an angry determined look on her face and hurries to the commotion. With his head on a swivel the first person who heard gunshots and grabbed his gun sees an angry determined woman rushing hurriedly toward what could be the exit. Is this the killer? It's gotta be. He starts shooting at her. She ducks behind the front desk and fires back. Meanwhile the scared and frightened gunman who began all the shooting sticks his head out of the room he entered. He has a confused and puzzled look. He then shoots himself while the other 2 are exchanging gunfire, each believing the other to be the terrorist who began the shooting spree. Now the cops show up. They of course have no idea who is the law abiding citizen and who entered this facility with the intent to kill innocents. Both shooters are still exchanging gunfire shouting, "Die you M-F'er!!!" The cops shrug their shoulders and shoot both of them, dead.
lunkhead

Downers Grove, IL

#40 Aug 5, 2009
What is it that makes these people snap and kill people like this? Is there some way we can create better community support so that people check in with everybody?

If someone had sat and talked to this guy, or any of the other people who do things like this before hand, maybe we could prevent such atrocities.

Lastly, one thing to consider about guns is that they make it really easy for people to kill people.

I don't think banning them would stop people from snapping and killing people, but it would be a lot easier to stop a crazy guy with a knife or club than with a gun.

We don't need more guns. We need more love and common sense.

Everybody, check on your neighbors and co-workers. Make sure they're not about to snap. Have a chat with them. Tell them they matter. Help them get help.

Peace.
Pawface

United States

#41 Aug 5, 2009
This poor guy was a tortured soul. He should have looked for help via a psychiatrist or hospital.

What he did was a cowardly act. God have mercy on his soul.
Josh

United States

#42 Aug 5, 2009
Get Real wrote:
In Europe, where guns are mostly banned, there has been a spike in random and school shootings in the past 10 years. How would you explain that considering their extreme restrictions on guns? Many European cops don't even have guns, and yet if someone wants to go on a shooting spree they always seem to get their hands on one.
The number of school shootings in Europe - and random gun violence overall - pales in comparison to the U.S. in the same time period.

Your analysis is dependant on wholly faulty statistics.

As I like to point out whenever these gun rights debates flair up, there is one loop hole out there if closed could make a real difference. Virginia, Texas, Arizona and several other states allow gun shows where so called 'private' sellers can sell guns without seeking i.d. of any sort, let alone fire arms licenses from the buyers. There is no wait period of limit to the amount of fire arms that may be sold.

Criminals, including potential terrorists, have no reason to access the black market to get weapons. They need only walk into a gun fair and buy weapons legally.

Of course for many their possession of the gun after they buy it is illegal - but once the gun is in the crook's hands, we are all at risk.

The only rational reason I can see for the NRA fighting to keep these shows legal is gun manufacturers like to be able to slough off excess inventory wholly free of regulation.
Josh

United States

#43 Aug 5, 2009
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Typically they did not barge into a populated area and begin firing indiscriminately. Of course shoot outs occurred, but not with the intention of killing as many innocent people as possible.
There are many recorded incidents of caucasion americans in the early 20th Century and 19th Century invading black townships with fire arms and other weapons indiscriminately killing people.

Before Native Americans were all shipped off to the reservation, it was very common for Europeans - sometimes in the guise of revenge - but usually because they wanted the land - to open fire on them.

Range wars, mining wars, wiolent attacks on organized labor. And of course, many wantonly killed off the huge herds of range animals, passenger pigeons, etc.

In Europe, Asia and Africa history is replete with near endless stories of conflict and violence.

There is nothing uniquely violent about our times.
Plainsman

Ord, NE

#44 Aug 5, 2009
This was not a random killing - it was, in the shooter's mind, revenge against women. Amazingly, no one who might have read this guy's blog ever turned him in to the police, or this could have been averted. Clearly he had some long-term issues, but nobody paid attention to the signs.

One of the prices of personal freedom is perpetual vigilance. Being aware of surroundings, potential threats and possible reactions is a necessity these days. The best protection is awareness.
OK now

Dixon, IL

#45 Aug 5, 2009
PA has concealed carry. In fact, they will issue you a permit as an Illinois resident if you qualify (yes, I have one-but am also covered by LEOSA--the PA permit, of course, is NOT any good in Illinois).

All these are side issues. And like it or not, the 2nd Amdt is settled law. This appears to have been the actions of an utter sociopath---methodically planned and carried out against victims in a place where no one would likely be armed.

It's a horrible, horrible thing. The one cold comfort is that events like this are exceedingly rare. And no, that fact will do nothing to comfort those who have lost loved ones in this nightmare.
Plainsman

Ord, NE

#46 Aug 5, 2009
Don't blame the gun shows. The ones I have attended have had good security and the firearms being sold were at market prices, not bargain-basement specials. The paperwork was filled out for each sale when necessary and things were run on the up and up. Were there shady deals? There may have been, but they would have been a very small fraction of a percentage of the business done.
Fun Todd

Chicago, IL

#47 Aug 5, 2009
Not to be critical but I think I see why this guy might have had trouble with the ladies.
Citizen4honor

Topeka, KS

#48 Aug 5, 2009
I like all the people saying GUNS kill.

People kill. If he wanted violence and GUNS weren't available he'd have walked in with a bomb - just like they do in middle east and Europe. Then MORE people would be dead.

Wake up.
OK now

Dixon, IL

#49 Aug 5, 2009
Josh wrote:
<quoted text>
The number of school shootings in Europe - and random gun violence overall - pales in comparison to the U.S. in the same time period.
Your analysis is dependant on wholly faulty statistics.
As I like to point out whenever these gun rights debates flair up, there is one loop hole out there if closed could make a real difference. Virginia, Texas, Arizona and several other states allow gun shows where so called 'private' sellers can sell guns without seeking i.d. of any sort, let alone fire arms licenses from the buyers. There is no wait period of limit to the amount of fire arms that may be sold.
Criminals, including potential terrorists, have no reason to access the black market to get weapons. They need only walk into a gun fair and buy weapons legally.
Of course for many their possession of the gun after they buy it is illegal - but once the gun is in the crook's hands, we are all at risk.
The only rational reason I can see for the NRA fighting to keep these shows legal is gun manufacturers like to be able to slough off excess inventory wholly free of regulation.
1) Gun dealers CAN NOT sell guns in the manner you describe.
2) The NRA receives it's funding from the 4 Million members--NOT the 'gun manufacturers'(again, maligning the #1 promoter and teacher of firarm safety does not good).
3) Private sales in Illinois are subject to STRICT ID, waiting period (yes, THEY ARE--check the law if you doubt me)and FOID requirements)--THERE is NO 'LOOP HOLE' here.

The NRA traines and certfies and HAS certified more instructors in the shooting sports than any other organization on the planet---they have trained countless soldiers, LEO's, and Scouts for almost 150 years. JFK was a proud Life Member--maybe you could mock him for daring to be murdered by a madman as well?

Since: Jul 09

Chicago, IL

#50 Aug 5, 2009
MikeC wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe not but a Homemade Bomb?? Poison?? A Car?? All are easy to get and use. Heck there was a guy who walked in somewhere in Japan and Killed like 8-10 people with a Knife. If people want to Kill they will.
You are right, so why should we bother with trying to make it more difficult for them?

After all, your right to go out to the quarry and take pot shots at bars of dove soap should carry more weight than minimizing the possibility someone murders others.

Cars also have other uses aside from killing. Guns do not. You can add the strawman bomb threat argument, but when over 16k people are killed from gun violence every year, I don't think that bombs are the things being used.
George

North Chicago, IL

#51 Aug 5, 2009
MikeC wrote:
PS- Hanover Park May be a dump but MOST (Not all) Of Chicago is very safe for a BIG CITY.
I always said i would not do this but... I will google just a few off cities for crimes before i go to work and post them here. You will be able to tell its random and done here by the times of the posts. I guarantee you will see the same stuff or worse elsewhere and alot of it will be in the MAIN/SAFE areas of some of the big cities.
Ok here goes, I suppose the people who want to will have happy reading.
Chicago is safe? Why don't you try to walk in a South Side neighborhood at night? How about a stroll in Lincoln Park? Chicago is not any safer than, say, Baghdad or Kabul.
Citizen4honor

Topeka, KS

#52 Aug 5, 2009
Josh wrote:
<quoted text>
The number of school shootings in Europe - and random gun violence overall - pales in comparison to the U.S. in the same time period.
Your analysis is dependant on wholly faulty statistics.
As I like to point out whenever these gun rights debates flair up, there is one loop hole out there if closed could make a real difference. Virginia, Texas, Arizona and several other states allow gun shows where so called 'private' sellers can sell guns without seeking i.d. of any sort, let alone fire arms licenses from the buyers. There is no wait period of limit to the amount of fire arms that may be sold.
Criminals, including potential terrorists, have no reason to access the black market to get weapons. They need only walk into a gun fair and buy weapons legally.
Of course for many their possession of the gun after they buy it is illegal - but once the gun is in the crook's hands, we are all at risk.
The only rational reason I can see for the NRA fighting to keep these shows legal is gun manufacturers like to be able to slough off excess inventory wholly free of regulation.
You need to get some real numbers. Gun deaths are HIGHER in USA BUT overall violent deaths rates are about the same as Europe and other industrialiized countries. I guess they just stab and blow them up over there.

In fact, Suicide deaths are much lower in USA than many industrial nations with Japan having the highest - 3 times that of USA.

If someone wants to kill, they will use whatever they can. Guns, knives, bomb.

Period.

Again Wake up Americans.
whatever

Jersey City, NJ

#53 Aug 5, 2009
oktoberfest wrote:
Do you know what this guy was 1 hour before the killing spree? A law-abiding citizen. Just like thousands of other Americans right before they go on killing sprees.
If only the women were allowed to carry concealed weapons. Then right before the guy began shooting, they could have pulled handguns out of their leotards and thwarted his attack!
Hey lady, is that a gun in your leotard or are you a cross dresser?
Bryan

Chicago, IL

#54 Aug 5, 2009
Alg Palin wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, people didn't gun each other down 100-150 years ago.
That's right, we were a regular 'law and order' society back then. No crime, no political corruption, nothing. No wild, wild West, right.
Not easy to re-write history when someone is watching.
You will always have a criminal element in society but if "Guns" Kill - then the fact that a higher portion of the population had guns during the early part of the last century and guns could be mail ordered by anyone - then there should have been rampage killing after rampage killing.

Since kids owned guns you would have schools being shot up - if the gun was the culprit. The National Matches were amateur shooters from all over the country gather to compete in rifle and pistol competitions, or the Trap Shooting Grand Nationals would be a blood bath if the gun was the culprit.

It's people that kill. My father grew up in rural Colorado and had a gun since he was ten(As did all of his friends) None of them felt the need to vent their anger by gunning everyone down they saw. My Granddad carried a revolver almost everyday of his life and he didn't feel the need to shoot it out with everyone he saw.

If you look at who was doing the killing during the wild west most of it was by people that were professional criminals - not your every day farmer, rancher, or banker.

No the current crop of gun violence especially the rampage killings point to a growing problem with the people in our country.

Since: Jul 09

Chicago, IL

#55 Aug 5, 2009
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a horrible way to lose ones life. My heart goes out to all the families grieving their loved ones.
I do have a question for you though. How would you suggest to stop these shootings? Ban guns? It worked great in San Fran, Chicago, DC, et. al. In Europe, where guns are mostly banned, there has been a spike in random and school shootings in the past 10 years. How would you explain that considering their extreme restrictions on guns? Many European cops don't even have guns, and yet if someone wants to go on a shooting spree they always seem to get their hands on one.
England is the only city where the cops don't carry guns, and they do have armed mobile units that can be deployed anywhere at a moment's notice.

Everywhere else in Europe the police are heavily armed. Ever walk through any train station or airport? Before you open your mouth you should look up murder rates in the EU and US. Only three countries in the EU, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania have higher per capita murder rates, and just barely. The rest of the EU is at half our rates. In fact we beat the Palestinian territories, and are on par with Lebanon.

http://www.geocities.com/tents444/geohomicide...

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