Kuuipo

Marina, CA

#21 Apr 23, 2013
LW1: I agree that this situation is the adult sons' responsibility to manage. Is the neighbor a nice, older, single man who never had sons of his own or a nice, older, gay single man who like-likes one or both of your sons? Regardless, your sons are perfectly capable of handling this.

LW2: I think LW and this man are experiencing attraction, infatuation, and lust, not love. This only started 6 months ago. Also, if LW has a conscience, she will be haunted by the "wonderful" wife. Then there are the professional issues. I vote for cutting ties with him. If his wife finds out about the texts and phone calls, I guarantee she will be considerable less wonderful than LW has known her to be. And if he will leave his wife for LW, what are the chances that he will leave LW for another woman a few years down the road? LW, you are young and single. There are a gazillion SINGLE men that you can date and fall in love with. Don't complicate your life.
animaniactoo

New York, NY

#22 Apr 23, 2013
PEllen wrote:
One of the answers in WaPo says it best:
Make sure you call the non emegency police number to report conduct with 2 people over the age 18 where there has been no threats and no obvious illegal activity.
First check with Miss Manners about how long you are obliged to listen to teh police laugh their heads off at you.
The other WaPo posts that I think hit it well:

"Oh yeah. Somebody here has boundary issues alright..."

"I imagine the Chicago PD dreads the Ask Amy column."

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#23 Apr 23, 2013
pde wrote:
All three of them are adults. It's their relationship to figure out.
19 and 20 yr old college students are by no means "adults" accept for the technical legal definition. They're not even old enough to buy beer. And I'm willing to bet they're still definitely in need of parental guidance. I'm also willing to bet they're still impressionable. To simply shrug this off by the cop out of "well they're adults" is a poor attitude to have.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24 Apr 23, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the guy is totally full of it and LW is a complete idiot who will change her mind on waiting for him to divorce before sleeping with him.
It's hard to know since we don't know these two people or their personalities. At least she isn't the woman banging him and begging him to leave his wife for her.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25 Apr 23, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankly, she needs to back it down even from the level where it is, and stop having long intimate conversations with him until something definitive has happened. She's leaving herself open for that next step, and for being lied to about his having separated from his wife, etc. when he hasn't done anything of the sort.*If* he is serious and honorable, he'll clean up his home situation in a hurry so that he'll be free to start a relationship - and accept that the long intimate conversations can't happen until then.
All she needs to do is ask for court papers if she questions whether he is separated or not.

I also think they’ve already gone down the road of intimate conversations and now each just need to decide what they want to do. If he delays in the separation, then I agree you are probably right, but marriages end all the time and many folks go through with divorces regardless of whether they are interested in someone else or not.

I also don't think these slime bags tend to pull that stuff on a woman who has half a brain like her and won't give in and sleep with him until he ends it with his wife. There are much easier pickings if you just want something on the side...

Trust me, also, if he wants to get tail so f'ing bad, there are plenty of women who will f' you even if you don't leave your wife or mention anything of the sort... They can be quiet pushy about it too.
animaniactoo

New York, NY

#26 Apr 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
All she needs to do is ask for court papers if she questions whether he is separated or not.
I also think they’ve already gone down the road of intimate conversations and now each just need to decide what they want to do. If he delays in the separation, then I agree you are probably right, but marriages end all the time and many folks go through with divorces regardless of whether they are interested in someone else or not.
I also don't think these slime bags tend to pull that stuff on a woman who has half a brain like her and won't give in and sleep with him until he ends it with his wife. There are much easier pickings if you just want something on the side...
Trust me, also, if he wants to get tail so f'ing bad, there are plenty of women who will f' you even if you don't leave your wife or mention anything of the sort... They can be quiet pushy about it too.
Just cuz you've gone down a road doesn't mean you can't back up it a bit while you figure out if you're going to keep going down it. Getting the paperwork is more or less what I meant about getting proof that a separation actually *has* happened.

As far as getting tail so f'ing bad - some people do not like the low-hanging fruit. They want the challenge. It's no fun if they don't have to work for it. So they absolutely go for women with half a brain or even a whole lot of a brain and keep stringing them along with the next story of how they've separated, the separation is in the works, and the divorce is taking forever and a few years in... woman ends up feeling like a fool for believing what the guy said.
pde

Palatine, IL

#27 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
19 and 20 yr old college students are by no means "adults" accept for the technical legal definition. They're not even old enough to buy beer. And I'm willing to bet they're still definitely in need of parental guidance. I'm also willing to bet they're still impressionable. To simply shrug this off by the cop out of "well they're adults" is a poor attitude to have.
The legal definition is all that matters here. The cops aren't going to care that some creepy old guy may be trying to seduce your 19-year-old, whether the 19-year-old is male or female. Even if the creepy old guy succeeds in seducing your 19-year-old, the cops still aren't going to care unless your 19-year-old is willing to file rape charges against creepy old guy.

And if you try to do anything to creepy old guy since the cops won't, well, you're the one who is likely to end up with criminal charges.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#28 Apr 23, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Just cuz you've gone down a road doesn't mean you can't back up it a bit while you figure out if you're going to keep going down it.
I didn’t say you can’t. I just don’t see it as being necessary. He wants to be with her, doesn’t want to be with his wife, and she wants to be with him. It’s simply a case of acting or not acting, which is where the proof of separation comes into play.

You seem to think she should completely back off until he just shows up out of the blue with paperwork. That’s fine, but unless he’s d’ing around about it, why automatically assume everyone has the worst intentions in life … if she has intimate conversations with him and he d’s around and doesn’t get a separation then she knows what she is dealing with. Intimate conversations or not will not change who he is.

Maybe women get blinded by their heart, but I would be able to quickly pull the plug on someone who was jerking me around. I’m a cold a$s honkey, like that, especially if some woman who claims to love me is lying to me and deceiving me. I expect much more devotion of such a person than even my closest friend and family members.
animaniactoo wrote:
<quoted text>As far as getting tail so f'ing bad - some people do not like the low-hanging fruit. They want the challenge. It's no fun if they don't have to work for it. So they absolutely go for women with half a brain or even a whole lot of a brain and keep stringing them along with the next story of how they've separated, the separation is in the works, and the divorce is taking forever and a few years in... woman ends up feeling like a fool for believing what the guy said.
Where we disagree is in terms of whether she needs to cool it until he proves he’s separated. You think she should and you think that by even having these conversations with him she has opened herself up to being taken advantage of … I say so long as he is not doing the things you mention in this passage of yours above or showing signs of such things that she shouldn’t assume the worst in a man she supposedly LOVES. The women who fall for such things, actually do not have half a brain, IMO.

I’m also mindful that he probably had to have intimate conversations with her before he separated because the separation is so that they could be together. Given that is why he wants to get separated, it makes sense that he’d want to talk to her and see what she is thinking and feeling before doing so.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#29 Apr 23, 2013
pde wrote:
The legal definition is all that matters here. The cops aren't going to care that some creepy old guy may be trying to seduce your 19-year-old, whether the 19-year-old is male or female. Even if the creepy old guy succeeds in seducing your 19-year-old, the cops still aren't going to care unless your 19-year-old is willing to file rape charges against creepy old guy.
I never argued the cops were going to care. I was just arguing that these kids are not "adults" in the sense many of you want to paint them, and that the LW should not just "butt out" because her children are "consenting adults."

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#30 Apr 23, 2013
I mean, come on. Would any of you parents just sit back and allow some creepy gay man to groom your "19 yr old" child? Would you rationalize it in the same way you're doing here? "Eh, he's an adult." ??
pde

Palatine, IL

#31 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I never argued the cops were going to care. I was just arguing that these kids are not "adults" in the sense many of you want to paint them, and that the LW should not just "butt out" because her children are "consenting adults."
The LW has already talked to her kids and they don't see a problem with the guy's friendship or actions.

Her kids are living outside her home, an hour away. They could simply stop telling her about their "dates" with the neighbor/their gifts from the neighbor at all. That's what they are most likely going to do if she tries to get up in their business.

I mean, heck, I dated quite a few guys my parents never knew about when I was "less than an hour away" at college and dated my now-husband for almost a year before they even knew of his existence. Because I didn't care to have their input in those types of situations.
pde

Palatine, IL

#32 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
I mean, come on. Would any of you parents just sit back and allow some creepy gay man to groom your "19 yr old" child? Would you rationalize it in the same way you're doing here? "Eh, he's an adult." ??
What exactly would you do to stop it?

Threaten your kids with withdrawal of their monetary support at college unless they end the friendship? You've just set up the perfect conditions for the guy to be a savior, if he really is that creepy.
animaniactoo

New York, NY

#33 Apr 23, 2013
The problem is that so often, those things *sound* reasonable - they're things that *can* happen. Which is why people fall for them.

So it's not as much about assuming the worst, as it is about protecting yourself from the worst in a situation where that kind of protecting should be looked on with respect if the other person actually is where they say they are.

As far as why they should pull back given that the intimate conversations, etc. have already happened - well either he trusts that she'll be there when the divorce comes through or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he damn sure shouldn't be getting divorced *for her*. And the reality is that he should be getting divorced either way if he's now discovered that "he should never have gotten married", etc.- for himself.

So exactly what would be his motives if he can't stand keeping stronger boundaries between them until he has official separation papers in hand? How would it speak well for his ability to honor a commitment, deal with it responsibly, and respect what his (future) partner needs as well, etc.?
animaniactoo

New York, NY

#34 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
I mean, come on. Would any of you parents just sit back and allow some creepy gay man to groom your "19 yr old" child? Would you rationalize it in the same way you're doing here? "Eh, he's an adult." ??
Having been in somewhat of this situation, what I did was sit back and quietly panic while thinking to myself and discussing with the other adults around "His choice his choice his choice have to let him make it even if he's making a mistake" and making sure to have conversations with him about conversations he might want to have with the guy to make sure they were on the same page, etc.

Eventually they went their separate ways and I breathed a huge sigh of relief.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35 Apr 23, 2013
Lw1: Everyone seemed to cover it. All adults. No crime being committed. Mom has no say in how they interact. Should probably let the boys know what her concerns are and let them handle it however they choose.

LW2: What do you think is going to happen in a few years when a single woman in her 20's starts working in his office?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#36 Apr 23, 2013
pde wrote:
The LW has already talked to her kids and they don't see a problem with the guy's friendship or actions.
Because they're 19 and 20 year old idiots!!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#37 Apr 23, 2013
pde wrote:
What exactly would you do to stop it?
I don't know what "exactly" I would do, but what I WOULDN'T do is just sit back and allow it to happen.
pde

Gilberts, IL

#38 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Because they're 19 and 20 year old idiots!!
And what more is talking at them going to do except cause them to completely stop listening to you?

Are you saying a sugar daddy could have turned you gay at age 20?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#39 Apr 23, 2013
pde wrote:
And what more is talking at them going to do except cause them to completely stop listening to you?
If your kids stop listening to you when you're trying to tell them something, you're doing it wrong.
pde wrote:
Are you saying a sugar daddy could have turned you gay at age 20?
No. But kids nowadays are being turned out more stupid and more impressionable than ever.
pde

Gilberts, IL

#40 Apr 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
If your kids stop listening to you when you're trying to tell them something, you're doing it wrong.
Or they've realized that you have no more control over them than they allow you to have.

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