Scientists say they have proved climate change is real, now mus...

Full story: Hartford Courant

Scientists studying the changing nature of the Earth's climate say they have completed one crucial task - proving beyond a doubt that global warming is real.
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7,821 - 7,840 of 7,942 Comments Last updated Aug 14, 2013

“Sharia, NOT!”

Since: Jul 10

Chesapeake, VA

#8178 Mar 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
First, gasoline is a mixture of many products. For example, butane is added to gasoline to make it more volatile in winter months so engines start better. Butane has an energy density of 102,00 BTU per gal. Ethanol has an energy density of 76,100 while gasoline has about 112,500 BTU per gal. So we see that ethanol has much more than the 1/5 energy density that you quote.
Would you not add butane because it is an additive? While I do not believe that ethanol from corn is a good alternative to gasoline, it does have some properties that are positive. First, it helps raise the octane number of gasoline. When added to gasoline, it prevents gas line freeze in winter. It helps clean the fuel system, especially dissolving varnishes that plug injectors. Because it absorbs water, it prevents water from collecting in the gas tank.
The main reason that butanol (110,000) has not been more prevalent is because of the low yields from the fermentation process. There are new processes that may promise much better results.
The proper measurement of Energy Density is Joules per kilogram. Not the BTU. This is where physics comes in.
For example, I shall list the energy densities of common fuels used for vehicular propulsion:

Methane 55 MJ/Kg
Aviation Fuel 50 MJ/Kg
Gas 44 MJ/Kg
Natural Gas 38 MJ/Kg
Butane 27 MJ/Kg
and our envirnmental hero Ethanol 26.8 MJ/Kg

What is surprising is the lack of pushing Hydrogen with an energy desity of 142 MJ/Kg!! Over 2-1/2 times that of gasoline.

Anything added to gas with a lower energy density dilutes it and thus reduces its efficiency.(This may be too complicated for professor to understand, however.)

My 12 year old son won a Physics award in the regional Science Fair last year based on this information while showing off his simple water fuel cell. There were judges from NASA present and were highly impressed and thus the award.

I know he can't hold a candle to professor since the professor claims to be the brightest bulb ever created. We can only hope...
The Iron Dictator

Podgorica, Montenegro

#8179 Mar 26, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>The proper measurement of Energy Density is Joules per kilogram. Not the BTU. This is where physics comes in.
For example, I shall list the energy densities of common fuels used for vehicular propulsion:
Methane 55 MJ/Kg
Aviation Fuel 50 MJ/Kg
Gas 44 MJ/Kg
Natural Gas 38 MJ/Kg
Butane 27 MJ/Kg
and our envirnmental hero Ethanol 26.8 MJ/Kg
What is surprising is the lack of pushing Hydrogen with an energy desity of 142 MJ/Kg!! Over 2-1/2 times that of gasoline.
Anything added to gas with a lower energy density dilutes it and thus reduces its efficiency.(This may be too complicated for professor to understand, however.)
My 12 year old son won a Physics award in the regional Science Fair last year based on this information while showing off his simple water fuel cell. There were judges from NASA present and were highly impressed and thus the award.
I know he can't hold a candle to professor since the professor claims to be the brightest bulb ever created. We can only hope...
Socialism is for Sissyes?
But what about Hitler, Mao Zedung, Pol Pot, Stalin,....they are Socialists as well...

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

#8180 Mar 26, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>The proper measurement of Energy Density is Joules per kilogram. Not the BTU. This is where physics comes in.
For example, I shall list the energy densities of common fuels used for vehicular propulsion:
Methane 55 MJ/Kg
Aviation Fuel 50 MJ/Kg
Gas 44 MJ/Kg
Natural Gas 38 MJ/Kg
Butane 27 MJ/Kg
and our envirnmental hero Ethanol 26.8 MJ/Kg
What is surprising is the lack of pushing Hydrogen with an energy desity of 142 MJ/Kg!! Over 2-1/2 times that of gasoline.
Anything added to gas with a lower energy density dilutes it and thus reduces its efficiency.(This may be too complicated for professor to understand, however.)
My 12 year old son won a Physics award in the regional Science Fair last year based on this information while showing off his simple water fuel cell. There were judges from NASA present and were highly impressed and thus the award.
I know he can't hold a candle to professor since the professor claims to be the brightest bulb ever created. We can only hope...
You persist in pretending that the product of algal energy creation is "1/5 the energy density of gasoline," which I've already PROVEN to be a LIE. When are you going to apologize for that?

Your story about "confounding a roomful of scientists" is an OBVIOUS lie, when are you going to apologize for that?

Your kid made a fuel cell....that's great. He's obviously smarter than you, which is progress.

Isn't it about time YOU progressed towards becoming an honest man, though?:)
litesong

Everett, WA

#8181 Mar 26, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
It's sad watching you, like Brian, recite the same idiotic nonsense over and over and over again and pretend that you're making a point of some kind.
Truly,'me me me getting mine in the 69 position' earns its name.

Since: Mar 09

Parsons, KS

#8182 Mar 26, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>The proper measurement of Energy Density is Joules per kilogram. Not the BTU. This is where physics comes in.
For example, I shall list the energy densities of common fuels used for vehicular propulsion:
Methane 55 MJ/Kg
Aviation Fuel 50 MJ/Kg
Gas 44 MJ/Kg
Natural Gas 38 MJ/Kg
Butane 27 MJ/Kg
and our envirnmental hero Ethanol 26.8 MJ/Kg
What is surprising is the lack of pushing Hydrogen with an energy desity of 142 MJ/Kg!! Over 2-1/2 times that of gasoline.
Anything added to gas with a lower energy density dilutes it and thus reduces its efficiency.(This may be too complicated for professor to understand, however.)
My 12 year old son won a Physics award in the regional Science Fair last year based on this information while showing off his simple water fuel cell. There were judges from NASA present and were highly impressed and thus the award.
I know he can't hold a candle to professor since the professor claims to be the brightest bulb ever created. We can only hope...
We are not concerned with the energy density per weight unit. Ethanol has a higher specific gravity than gasoline for example. The compelling factor is energy density per unit volume since that is the limiting factor in liquid holding tanks in vehicles. For example Gasoline contains about 35 MJ/L,Ethanol 21.2 JM/L, Methanol 17.9 MJ/L

Whether the comparison is in Joules or BTU the ratio is numerically the same. Ethanol certainly has more than 1/5 the energy content per L, or gallon, of gasoline.

The problem with H2 is that the energy to dissociate H2 from compounds is at least equivalent to the energy available for work. Not only that, but the vessels necessary to contain enough hydrogen for the expected range of travel by automobile is problematic.
PHD

Overton, TX

#8183 Mar 27, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Truly,'me me me getting mine in the 69 position' earns its name.
More and More diarrheas from the "pinheadliteout".

“Sharia, NOT!”

Since: Jul 10

Chesapeake, VA

#8184 Mar 27, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
You persist in pretending that the product of algal energy creation is "1/5 the energy density of gasoline," which I've already PROVEN to be a LIE. When are you going to apologize for that?
Your story about "confounding a roomful of scientists" is an OBVIOUS lie, when are you going to apologize for that?
Your kid made a fuel cell....that's great. He's obviously smarter than you, which is progress.
Isn't it about time YOU progressed towards becoming an honest man, though?:)
I owe YOU of all people nothing except toilet paper to wipe your mouth with.

“Sharia, NOT!”

Since: Jul 10

Chesapeake, VA

#8185 Mar 27, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not concerned with the energy density per weight unit. Ethanol has a higher specific gravity than gasoline for example. The compelling factor is energy density per unit volume since that is the limiting factor in liquid holding tanks in vehicles. For example Gasoline contains about 35 MJ/L,Ethanol 21.2 JM/L, Methanol 17.9 MJ/L
Whether the comparison is in Joules or BTU the ratio is numerically the same. Ethanol certainly has more than 1/5 the energy content per L, or gallon, of gasoline.
The problem with H2 is that the energy to dissociate H2 from compounds is at least equivalent to the energy available for work. Not only that, but the vessels necessary to contain enough hydrogen for the expected range of travel by automobile is problematic.
H2 can easily be produce via solar power extraction as has been proven. Because the energy density is so much higher, the work performed is much greater (horsepower for the mental giant professor) and thus engine design must be rethought as well as transmission torque and thus it would require such a large capacity tank to go the same distance. Propane might be the better transition.

“Sharia, NOT!”

Since: Jul 10

Chesapeake, VA

#8186 Mar 27, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not concerned with the energy density per weight unit. Ethanol has a higher specific gravity than gasoline for example. The compelling factor is energy density per unit volume since that is the limiting factor in liquid holding tanks in vehicles. For example Gasoline contains about 35 MJ/L,Ethanol 21.2 JM/L, Methanol 17.9 MJ/L
You're right about the specific gravity which is why ethanol is a very BAD idea as a gas additive. Besides diluting the gas.
It settles out at the bottom of the tank , turns rancid and destrys/gums up carburators. Thats why you can't let it sit throught the winter in mowers, weedeaters, boats, etc.
Pop open a gas can right now a take a wiff. It probably smells bad and if you swish it around you can see what looks like water on the bottom of the container. Adding Seafoam to the container seems to help somewhat.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#8187 Mar 27, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>You're right about the specific gravity which is why ethanol is a very BAD idea as a gas additive. Besides diluting the gas.
It settles out at the bottom of the tank , turns rancid and destrys/gums up carburators. Thats why you can't let it sit throught the winter in mowers, weedeaters, boats, etc.
Pop open a gas can right now a take a wiff. It probably smells bad and if you swish it around you can see what looks like water on the bottom of the container. Adding Seafoam to the container seems to help somewhat.
Good guess, but incorrect. Ethanol aids in more complete combustion and is less toxic than MTBE. It is a fair solvent for removing gasoline varnish (it is old gasoline that causes gumming), so when "fresh" it actually cleans fuel systems. The drawback in this is that it also eats some kinds of rubber and plastics. It is hygroscopic, the clear layer you see in the bottom of a tank is mostly water, since it's about 50x more absorbent of humidity and condensation than straight gasoline. Instead of Seafoam, use Marine Sta-Bil (blue) in your gas can or even better, just empty the gas can into your car. When storing your engine(s) for the winter, pump out or drain the gas tank and run the engine until the carburetor runs completely out of fuel.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#8188 Mar 27, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>You're right about the specific gravity which is why ethanol is a very BAD idea as a gas additive. Besides diluting the gas.
It settles out at the bottom of the tank , turns rancid and destrys/gums up carburators. Thats why you can't let it sit throught the winter in mowers, weedeaters, boats, etc.
Pop open a gas can right now a take a wiff. It probably smells bad and if you swish it around you can see what looks like water on the bottom of the container. Adding Seafoam to the container seems to help somewhat.
It is water. Ethanol does not separate from gasoline unless it is absorbed by water. If there is water in the container, it is because the gasoline was already contaminated with water or condensation occurred because of improper storage. Second, it does not gum up carburetors, it is actually a gum solvent. Of course you shouldn't let any gasoline sit through a long period of time in any fuel system because it does oxidize and form gum.

It takes at least as much energy to produce hydrogen gas as it produces when burned, actually more because of efficiencies. It is not a fuel source, but a simply an energy transfer medium. Also, even though the energy density per Kg is quite high, it is very difficult to store. Hydrogen is not practical to liquify for private automobiles and high pressure devices do not provide the densities per volume desired anywhere nearly equivalent to the energy stored by liquids such as gasoline or even ethanol.

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

#8189 Mar 27, 2013
Socialism is for Sissies wrote:
<quoted text>I owe YOU of all people nothing except toilet paper to wipe your mouth with.
LOL...now we're getting to your REAL arguments, huh?:)

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

#8190 Mar 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Good guess, but incorrect. Ethanol aids in more complete combustion and is less toxic than MTBE. It is a fair solvent for removing gasoline varnish (it is old gasoline that causes gumming), so when "fresh" it actually cleans fuel systems. The drawback in this is that it also eats some kinds of rubber and plastics. It is hygroscopic, the clear layer you see in the bottom of a tank is mostly water, since it's about 50x more absorbent of humidity and condensation than straight gasoline. Instead of Seafoam, use Marine Sta-Bil (blue) in your gas can or even better, just empty the gas can into your car. When storing your engine(s) for the winter, pump out or drain the gas tank and run the engine until the carburetor runs completely out of fuel.
That was my understanding as well, that ethanol was too much of a solvent and not something which would "gum up" anything. Good post.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#8191 Mar 27, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
That was my understanding as well, that ethanol was too much of a solvent and not something which would "gum up" anything. Good post.
I see from the "clueless nuts disagree" on my post that that someone agrees to disagree. I wonder which it might it be? SifS, Tina, Phd or Brain_D? Pretty much sums up how much value some idjits place on reality.

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

#8192 Mar 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I see from the "clueless nuts disagree" on my post that that someone agrees to disagree. I wonder which it might it be? SifS, Tina, Phd or Brain_D? Pretty much sums up how much value some idjits place on reality.
It's all the rebuttal most of them are capable of...:)

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#8193 Mar 28, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
Ad hominem argument is a fallacy. Childish insults might appeal to other children but have no place in reasoned arguments.
>>Brian, you're so stupid that you don't know the difference between an ad hominem and a simple insult. And your arguments and repetitious trolling are so lacking in credibility that you don't understand why you're being insulted in the first place. How sad is that?
I don't call my opponents trolls, this is where we differ.

.
tha Professor wrote:
The basic formula, that it takes a doubling of CO2 to increase warming between 2 and 4.5 means each molecule of CO2 emitted has less effect than the previous molecule emitted. Nature seems to adapt to our carbon dioxide emissions just as we adapt to nature. Climate change mitigation has never been demonstrated, tested, tried or experimentally verified but climate change adaptation is well known. That's why man made catastrophic global warming alarmism is pseudoscience and climate change mitigation is a hoax.
>>You've said that before and I've shown that you're wrong. You simply repeat the same nonsense ad nauseam and ad infinitum. That's why I laugh in your face and mock you. Do you understand that yet? Or do you just not care?:)
Since it takes geometric increase in CO2 to increase warming arithmetically, each molecule of CO2 you emit has less effect than the previous CO2 molecule you emitted. Isn't it nice, that nature has already mitigated our carbon emissions?

Climate always changes; don't panic. Wait for experimental tests, demonstrations and trials before implementing a new technology. Don't buy a pig in a poke.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#8194 Mar 28, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I don't call my opponents trolls, this is where we differ.
Because your opponents aren't troll, they are rational people. you are a troll. That's where you differ.
The Iron Dictator

Podgorica, Montenegro

#8195 Mar 28, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Because your opponents aren't troll, they are rational people. you are a troll. That's where you differ.
Scientists say that they have proven that Jews are Children of Satan,now we must do something about it!

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#8197 Mar 28, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
Because your opponents aren't troll, they are rational people. you are a troll. That's where you differ.
^^^I don't rely on ad hominem arguments because reason is superior to irrationality.

CARSON: They feel that if you look a certain way, then you have to stay on the plantation. I've heard that some people referred to me as an Uncle Tom. Obviously they don't know what an Uncle Tom is. They need to read Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin to see that he was very subservient, kind of go-along-to-get-along type person. Obviously that's not what I'm doing. And what the left frequently does -- and some aspects of the right, too -- is they try to make life so unpleasant for anybody who disagrees with them that people will keep silent. I'm trying to get people to speak up because, you know, this country is changing into something else and we need to make sure that that we really want to change into something else and not just end up there and ask ourselves how did we get there.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/03/27/...

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#8198 Mar 28, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^I don't rely on ad hominem arguments because reason is superior to irrationality.
CARSON: They feel that if you look a certain way, then you have to stay on the plantation. I've heard that some people referred to me as an Uncle Tom. Obviously they don't know what an Uncle Tom is. They need to read Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin to see that he was very subservient, kind of go-along-to-get-along type person. Obviously that's not what I'm doing. And what the left frequently does -- and some aspects of the right, too -- is they try to make life so unpleasant for anybody who disagrees with them that people will keep silent. I'm trying to get people to speak up because, you know, this country is changing into something else and we need to make sure that that we really want to change into something else and not just end up there and ask ourselves how did we get there.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/03/27/...
Brain_D far more akin to Rush Limbaugh than Dr. Benjamin Carson.
Then again, as a 7th Day Adventist Dr. Carson is obligated to profess that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
"Ultimately, if you accept the evolutionary theory, you dismiss ethics, you don't have to abide by a set of moral codes, you determine your own conscience based on your own desires." -Dr. B. Carson

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