Once slow-moving threat, global warmi...

Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

There are 61095 comments on the Newsday story from Dec 14, 2008, titled Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt.... In it, Newsday reports that:

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#13075 Sep 14, 2009
Earthling wrote:
<quoted text>You learned that at Topix?
My goodness, I learned that long before the internet was invented.
Really! I've been surprised at how many people just don't get the simplest of scientific ideas: that a wiggly line may wiggle up and down, but wiggle up more than it wiggles down.(A long term trend may be visible in noisy data.)

I always knew there were people who'd never have a clue about relativity, but the above concept seemed pretty simple.

Of course, I've encountered creationists before (and therefore boneheads) but yes, it was a surprise to find people who couldn't understand such simple science.
Earthling wrote:
The things that you explain, "until you're blue in the face," are things that you believe to be factual, without considering that your explanations are only opinions based on opinions of the science you believe.
There are no facts, only opinions?

A good way to rationalise not being able to tell the difference.

Another connection with creationism, you can't parody this anti-science rubbish without it being impossible to tell which is which.
We stand unimpressed by "textbooks", "peer review journals" and so-called "facts". There are no facts, just informed ideas. We are infinitely small compared to nature and can't grasp anything as certain as a fact.
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/den...
Earthling wrote:
There are no, "skills to understand" involved, anyone with average intelligence can understand the written word and make sense of evidence presented.
There is always other evidence to consider and in this case, the science isn't settled and the consensus is fiction.
Very egalitarian, but untrue. There's a reason why we have colleges and universities, why the deniers here have no scientific qualifications, why they get the scientific facts wrong (yes, there is such a thing).

Some people just don't get the science.

At least with deniers, unlike creationists, we won't have to wait until we die to see who was right. The deniers have commited themselves to the "global cooling" meme: we should see a new record warm year by 2012, 2013, which will force even the dimmest denier into the realisation that they were wrong.
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#13076 Sep 14, 2009
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Really! I've been surprised at how many people just don't get the simplest of scientific ideas: that a wiggly line may wiggle up and down, but wiggle up more than it wiggles down.(A long term trend may be visible in noisy data.)
I always knew there were people who'd never have a clue about relativity, but the above concept seemed pretty simple.
Of course, I've encountered creationists before (and therefore boneheads) but yes, it was a surprise to find people who couldn't understand such simple science.
<quoted text>
There are no facts, only opinions?
A good way to rationalise not being able to tell the difference.
Another connection with creationism, you can't parody this anti-science rubbish without it being impossible to tell which is which.
<quoted text>
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/den...
<quoted text>
Very egalitarian, but untrue. There's a reason why we have colleges and universities, why the deniers here have no scientific qualifications, why they get the scientific facts wrong (yes, there is such a thing).
Some people just don't get the science.
At least with deniers, unlike creationists, we won't have to wait until we die to see who was right. The deniers have commited themselves to the "global cooling" meme: we should see a new record warm year by 2012, 2013, which will force even the dimmest denier into the realisation that they were wrong.
I take it that you believe that 'energy cannot be created or destroyed'...right?

Gee, you STILL don't get it...do you?

There is ONLY ONE ENERGY SOURCE....IT'S CALLED THE SUN!

The Earth and Atmosphere ARE NOT ENERGY SOURCES!

They cannot heat the Earth!

DUH!

Like you said...

"Some people just don't get the science."
Huh

Red Springs, NC

#13077 Sep 14, 2009
An article just this week on CNN reported that the polar ice cap melted enough for a German ship to pass straight through it.

For those who don't believe, at least ponder this: What will happen to ocean levels as glaciers, massive ice burgs, and the polar ice caps continue to melt? What will happen to cities along coastlines all over the world?
Huh

Red Springs, NC

#13078 Sep 14, 2009
Interesting thoughts here, like heat can only come from the sun. I don't believe that's very scientific.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#13079 Sep 14, 2009
Van Jones let the car out of the bag. He said_'Green Jobs' Goal is 'Complete Revolution' Away From 'Gray Capitalism'. "We are going to push it and push it ...__VAN JONES

Anyone that falls for Gore's obvious communist push is enterely devoid of "Grey Matter"

They fell for it in Europe. Don't let them fool us here.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#13080 Sep 14, 2009
Huh wrote:
An article just this week on CNN reported that the polar ice cap melted enough for a German ship to pass straight through it.
For those who don't believe, at least ponder this: What will happen to ocean levels as glaciers, massive ice burgs, and the polar ice caps continue to melt? What will happen to cities along coastlines all over the world?
CNN? CNN? Your kidding right?
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#13081 Sep 14, 2009
Huh wrote:
Interesting thoughts here, like heat can only come from the sun. I don't believe that's very scientific.
What other energy source is there?

Can the Earth or Atmosphere CREATE energy?

In case you have never heard of the Law of Consevation of Energy, it say's 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed'!

Is a Law of Science scientific enough for you?
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#13082 Sep 14, 2009
Huh wrote:
An article just this week on CNN reported that the polar ice cap melted enough for a German ship to pass straight through it.
For those who don't believe, at least ponder this: What will happen to ocean levels as glaciers, massive ice burgs, and the polar ice caps continue to melt? What will happen to cities along coastlines all over the world?
So, do you think that CO2 melts Ice....or the SUN?
Fun Facts

AOL

#13083 Sep 14, 2009
Here's August 2009 compared to the average of 2000 thru 2009.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

July 2009 was also supposed to be one of the warmerst on record. Not much to worry about if this represents the one of the warmest on record. July 2009 compared to the average of 2000 thru 2009.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

How about June 2009?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

How about last winter?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

How about spring of 2009?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

how about spring 2008?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

how about summer 2008?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

Summer 2009?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_ ...

2008 and 2009 are demonstrably cooler than the average of the years 2000 thru 2009.
Fun Facts

AOL

#13084 Sep 14, 2009
Fun Facts

AOL

#13085 Sep 14, 2009
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
2002-2009 is a shorter period than 1995-2009, so you can't have a definite cooling trend in the first and no significant warming in the second. You need about 15 years to be certain of any significant trend.
Do that and you'll see warming.
Get a clue before the latest El Nino kicks in and we see record warm years again- save yourself the total collapse of any intellectual credibility that's coming- going be tough to have proved beyond all reasonable doubt that you're a fool.
Here's a look at the current temps as compared to the average temps from the period 1995 to 2009.

Winter 2008
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_...

spring 2009
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_...

Winter 2009
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_...

summer 2009
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_...

august 09
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_...
Fun Facts

AOL

#13086 Sep 14, 2009
Huh wrote:
An article just this week on CNN reported that the polar ice cap melted enough for a German ship to pass straight through it.
For those who don't believe, at least ponder this: What will happen to ocean levels as glaciers, massive ice burgs, and the polar ice caps continue to melt? What will happen to cities along coastlines all over the world?
Here's a satelitte view of the polar ice cap as of sept 13, 2009. Just where did the German ship pass straight through the polar ice cap?

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims_gif/DATA/c...
Fun Facts

AOL

#13087 Sep 14, 2009
Huh wrote:
Interesting thoughts here, like heat can only come from the sun. I don't believe that's very scientific.
Where else does heat come from? The earth's internal core is very hot and sometimes we have volcanic eruptions, but any 'heat' from a volcanic eruption is mitigated by the amount of particles that are spewed into the atmosphere. The particles in the atmosphere block the TSI from the sun. That is why when there is a volcanic eruption of any size the climate change is always cooler temperatures. Ex--Pinataubo in 1992(?) or Tambora in 1816 which resulted in the 'year without a summer'.

Since: Jan 09

Columbia, CT

#13088 Sep 14, 2009
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
If you actually look at the data since 1995, you see a strong warming trend.
There are no "years of cooling"- just two La Nina events causing a temporary dip in temperatures, one in 2000, the other in 2008.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from...
Please understand that anything you've been fed about global cooling is complete crap.
Really, get somebody to hit you over the head with a clue stick.
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/glo...
I have looked at the evidence, in this case the UAH temperature DATA [not plots]. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/...

I had looked at the trend carefully several months ago and updated in June for Total, Northern Hemisphere and US48.

As of January 1995 those anomalies were .13,.38, and .50 respectively. In June 2009 they were .01,.08, and -.21 respectively, ie cooling in every case.

BUT

July came in dramatically higher in each case,.42,.21, and .78 enough to show net warming since 1995. August also showed warmer.

So my recollection was fine but not up to date. Whether these two months constitute a reversal of the strong cooling since 2002 and the more modest trend since 1995, neither of us can know. But it is the course of wisdom for me to acknowledge that the data is now inconclusive and accept your point that within the next 3-4 years we may have a clearer indicator. Of course, we also may have NO clear indicator in that time or it could be in opposite direction.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#13089 Sep 14, 2009
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Frank Luntz, a repub advisor, told repubs to use' climate change' instead of 'global warming' to make them more electable.
Then why are the democrats the ones using it? If what you said was true then it would make more sense for them to use global warming instead of climate change to make themselves more electable.

Since: Sep 09

United States

#13090 Sep 14, 2009
Dennis Cossiboon wrote:
Fact, the glaciers are receding all over the world.
Fact, they have been receding long before man existed.
Fact, Mt. St. Helens put more pollution in the atmosphere than Americans have since the birth of the Nation.
Fact, while much easier to screw up the land on earth, humanity has less than a half of a percent impact on the atmosphere of earth. Example. The land mass is the size of a water bottle and the atmosphere is the size of Lake Michigan.
Fact, Global warming has happened constantly throughout the history of the planet. periodically the world was completely frozen over.
History in ice and geology shows earth cycles 100,000 years of global cooling and 10,000 years of global warming. The warming cycle called Halcyon period ends in 2012.
Long after humanity survives and populates other areas of the the universe or if we all perish; earth will continue to warm and cool. Through very little fault of our own.
Fact, Al Bore has made millions of dollars off of the global warming issue.
Fact, the Catholic church has made trillions of dollars off faith in their religion. See the correlation.
Common sense is, how far you going to go to believe in something that isn't under your control and isn't very logical. And how much money and time will you put into it. It's a good racket, wish I thought of it.
time better spent looking for better technologies to get ourselves onto other planets because sooner or later earth is going to shake things up. Like she has for every ecological period of her life.
peace, [email protected]
Moreover, V V V

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#13092 Sep 14, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why are the democrats the ones using it? If what you said was true then it would make more sense for them to use global warming instead of climate change to make themselves more electable.
Hi, Tina. Nice point.

Since: Aug 08

Pittsburgh, PA

#13094 Sep 14, 2009
tina anne wrote:
If what you said was true then it would make more sense for them to use global warming instead of climate change to make themselves more electable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2003/ma...

Since: Jan 09

New Haven, CT

#13095 Sep 15, 2009
Based on the daily updated IJIS data, the ice extent reached 5,249,844 on September 13. The following day the ice extent increased by nearly 20,000 sqkm.

This MAY prove to be the minimum value for 2009. have been reached on September 13. Yes, this could be a temporary mark with more declines still possible. The latest annual minimum on the IJIS record occurred on September 22.

If this value holds up, it represents the third lowest value (out of eight) on the IJIS record, 65,312 sqkm below 2005.(NSIDC already expects this to be the third lowest value (out of thirty one) on its record.)

Since: Jan 09

New Haven, CT

#13097 Sep 15, 2009
Huh wrote:
An article just this week on CNN reported that the polar ice cap melted enough for a German ship to pass straight through it.
For those who don't believe, at least ponder this: What will happen to ocean levels as glaciers, massive ice burgs, and the polar ice caps continue to melt? What will happen to cities along coastlines all over the world?
Your melding two different concepts. Melting Arctic ice has no, ie zero, contribution to rising ocean levels. It is sea ice and already displaces its weight.

The same is true of free floating icebergs.

Now as for land based glaciers, they could contribute if in fact there were significant net melting. Do you have states on volume of world wide glacial ice and its trend over the last century? or even a few decades?

Failing that, it's just "what if" speculation.

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