Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

There are 53075 comments on the Newsday story from Dec 14, 2008, titled Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt.... In it, Newsday reports that:

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Amor patriae.”

Since: Feb 08

Eastern Oregon

#47910 Jun 16, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>You are superficial.
How do you stock the ecosystem that you just destroyed? You can't.
What you love so much is to trigger extinctions one after another . Your ignorance is not entertaining for sure.
You're pitiful. I worked on one of the last old growth clear-cuts in Oregon, about 30 years ago. I'll bet you $1000 that if you drove by it today, you couldn't spot it.
Except

Largo, FL

#47911 Jun 16, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>You are superficial.
How do you stock the ecosystem that you just destroyed? You can't.
What you love so much is to trigger extinctions one after another . Your ignorance is not entertaining for sure.
The shutting down timber industry in the U.S. Has led to wide spread total destruction of lands all over the world.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#47912 Jun 16, 2014
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
1630?? Really? Who the hell was the expert in 1630? That's very good entertainment. You can probably find expert testimony on the love habits of extraterrestrials too.
Generally, when a plot of land is replanted, it is stocked with the same mix of species and at the same percentages - unless the species removed was invasive or undesirable. That's what stocking surveys are for.
Oh, I think I understand, since they are government entities the USDA and Forestry Service just make up figures. I personally would accept their assessments rather than someone who has an axe to grind.(pun intended)

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#47913 Jun 16, 2014
Except wrote:
<quoted text> The shutting down timber industry in the U.S. Has led to wide spread total destruction of lands all over the world.
Of course the timber industry is responsible...... Just how many giant redwood trees would be left if there was no government regulation. They don't grow back in 30 years.

“Amor patriae.”

Since: Feb 08

Eastern Oregon

#47914 Jun 16, 2014
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I think I understand, since they are government entities the USDA and Forestry Service just make up figures. I personally would accept their assessments rather than someone who has an axe to grind.(pun intended)
My question is: Who, in 1630, had the remotest idea of how much timber we had?

I hope you're being sarcastic as there is no federal entity called the "Forestry Service".

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#47915 Jun 16, 2014
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
My question is: Who, in 1630, had the remotest idea of how much timber we had?
I hope you're being sarcastic as there is no federal entity called the "Forestry Service".
You may have a point with Canadian timber, most peoples houses contain some of it. However it's one of their main exports and despite that seem to be managing their forests on the face of it. After all Forests are renewable and a well aged tree is a great carbon sink. I'd rather have the Canadians manage their forest area compared to Indonesia or Brazil. The contrast is staggering.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#47916 Jun 16, 2014
From the archives... 1630

April 8 – Winthrop Fleet: The ship Arbella and three others set sail from the Solent in England with 400 passengers under the leadership of John Winthrop headed for the Massachusetts Bay Colony in America as part of the Puritan migration to New England (1620–1640); seven more, with another 300 aboard, follow in the next few weeks.
June – Scottish-born Presbyterian (and former physician) Alexander Leighton is brought before Archbishop William Laud's Star Chamber court in London for publishing the seditious pamphlet An Appeale to the Parliament, or, Sions Plea Against the Prelacy, an attack on Anglican bishops (printed in the Netherlands, 1628). He is sentenced to be pilloried and whipped, have his ears cropped, one side of his nose slit, and his face branded with "SS" (for "sower of sedition"), to be imprisoned, and be degraded from holy orders.[1]
June 6 – Swedish warships depart from Stockholm for Germany.
June 14 – Passengers of the Arbella, including Anne Bradstreet, America's first poet of significance, finally set foot in the New World at Salem, Massachusetts.

P.S. There were eye accounts os how rich the new land looked.. trees, turkeys, etc.

February 22 – Native American Quadequine introduces popcorn to English colonists.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#47917 Jun 16, 2014
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
You may have a point with Canadian timber, most peoples houses contain some of it. However it's one of their main exports and despite that seem to be managing their forests on the face of it. After all Forests are renewable and a well aged tree is a great carbon sink. I'd rather have the Canadians manage their forest area compared to Indonesia or Brazil. The contrast is staggering.
Amazon and the Indonesian islands are the lungs of this planet. Also, the medicine chest. Also, ancient species galore.

Why do you want to wish ill on them?
Except

Largo, FL

#47918 Jun 16, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Amazon and the Indonesian islands are the lungs of this planet. Also, the medicine chest. Also, ancient species galore.
Why do you want to wish ill on them?
Shutting down timber in the U.S. Has caused mass destruction of the Amazon.and Indonesia forest's all caused by rabid environmentalist.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#47919 Jun 16, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Amazon and the Indonesian islands are the lungs of this planet. Also, the medicine chest. Also, ancient species galore.
Why do you want to wish ill on them?
You missed the point, I'm saying they are both cutting down rain forests totally unmanaged.
Either through government corruption or via mining, grazing cattle etc.
The world is better off with managed forests than thinking we are doing a good thing restricting our own industries only to export the demand off shore. We all know what happened in China when the West just exported their pollution there & now it's come back in spades.
litesong

Everett, WA

#47920 Jun 16, 2014
litesong wrote:
Business & re-pubic-lick-un anti-environmentalists don't need to worry. Loggers are still clear-cutting on too large forest tracks, & forest tracks that are too steep & on too rocky of terrain that is NOT amiable to re-foresting within 100 years. Often, loggers(with the blessings of gov't) close off areas to the public, so the public has a hard time seeing what loggers are doing. I suspect your definition of "responsible logging" is to re-plant..... maybe.
//////////
"mudbuilder" muffed:
Logging is tightly regulated from top to bottom. I cut timber.....My wife ran the reforestation department in one of the Ranger Districts......
As I said before: There's more trees in America now.......
//////////
litesong wrote:
Might be more trees today, but very few of the original big bio-mass virgin trees. The logging industry tried their propagandistic "super trees" growth patterns, but the building trades found that fast growing super trees made for sub-standard wood strengths. & now, with some eastern regions on the 5th & 6th(?) secondary growths, the soils are not supplying proper nutrients for strong wood products.
Your wife & you are a prime example of the logging industry & the Forestry service working together to disassemble Gifford Pinchot's powerful implementation of proper nearly sustainable forest practices. Again, you think that reforestations is all that the logging industry must do. litesong wrote:
litesong wrote:
Business & re-pubic-lick-un anti-environmentalists don't need to worry. Loggers are still clear-cutting on too large forest tracks, & forest tracks that are too steep & on too rocky of terrain that is NOT amiable to re-foresting within 100 years. Often, loggers(with the blessings of gov't) close off areas to the public, so the public has a hard time seeing what loggers are doing. I suspect your definition of "responsible logging" is to re-plant..... maybe.
//////////
"mudbuilder" muffed:
I cut timber.....My wife ran the reforestation department in one of the Ranger Districts......
As I said before: There's more trees in America now...
//////////
litesong wrote:
Might be more trees today, but very few of the original big bio-mass virgin trees. The logging industry tried their propagandistic "super trees" growth patterns, but the building trades found that fast growing super trees made for sub-standard wood strengths. & now, with some eastern regions on the 5th & 6th(?) secondary growths, the soils are not supplying proper nutrients for strong wood products.
Your wife & you are a prime example of the logging industry & the Forestry service working together to disassemble Gifford Pinchot's powerful implementation of proper nearly sustainable forest practices. Again, you think that reforestations is all that the logging industry must do.
Of course, Gifford Pinchot (& even now, the present Forestry service, & you) ain't addressing nutrient loss in soils.
//////////
"mudbuilder" muffed:
Soil nutrients notwithstanding. Timber.....will continue to grow timber as long as the sun shines and rain falls.
Gifford Pinchot was a strong advocate for balanced logging practices. He supported the "sustained yield" theory of logging......
//////////
litesong wrote:
After six generations of cuttings soils are poor. Like farm soils, much greater care is needed to maintain forest soils, to truly be sustainable. You know this, but you deflect the conversation.
Now, don't think Pinchot is on the logging industry's side, tho his am was sustainability. Pinchot fought against industry (& industry's influence in gov't) his entire life. Tho he convinced much of the logging industry to stop their wanton forest slaughter, many of his practices laid down in the 19th century, have been intruded on by present loggers, despite the logging industry's propaganda PEE-R sustainability strategy to make them look good in the public eye.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#47921 Jun 16, 2014
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
My question is: Who, in 1630, had the remotest idea of how much timber we had?
I hope you're being sarcastic as there is no federal entity called the "Forestry Service".
As the country was settled it is certain that the folks had an idea how much land was forested and how much they had to clear. Land records were kept and it is not much of a stretch that there was a pretty good record of forests. They had accounting back then. Of course the West was not settled during that period and it would be noted that the timber remained much as it was until it was settled mostly in the 1800's and later. It is certain that much was cleared while producing ties for the railroads and ship building etc. and the Eastern forests were much depleted.[USDA Forest Service]

There is no doubt that natural forests have decreased as they were cut for products. While tree farms have introduced many trees for pulp and lumber, they are not natural forests and do not exhibit the ecology that natural forests do. Forests must be regulated or there would be only those natural forests left that are inaccessible for logging.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#47922 Jun 16, 2014
Back to the topic. The latest El Niño prediction comes from the European Centre for Medium-range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF), which is considered one the most reliable of the 15 or so prediction centres around the world.“It is very much odds-on for an event,” said Tim Stockdale, principal scientist at ECMWF, who said 90% of their scenarios now deliver an El Niño. "The amount of warm water in the Pacific is now significant, perhaps the biggest since the 1997-98 event.” That El Niño was the biggest in a century,

We may swing back into a significant warming trend soon.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#47923 Jun 16, 2014
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed the point, I'm saying they are both cutting down rain forests totally unmanaged.
Either through government corruption or via mining, grazing cattle etc.
The world is better off with managed forests than thinking we are doing a good thing restricting our own industries only to export the demand off shore. We all know what happened in China when the West just exported their pollution there & now it's come back in spades.
You missed my point, huh?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#47924 Jun 16, 2014
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
My question is: Who, in 1630, had the remotest idea of how much timber we had?
I hope you're being sarcastic as there is no federal entity called the "Forestry Service".
European Settlements Impact Forest Area
Growth of the very earliest European settlers in North America initiated large land clearing efforts which had a great impact on forest acreage - especially in the new colonies. Lumber was one of the first exports from the New World and these new English colonies produced great quantities of quality wood for England, mainly ship building.

Until the mid-1800's most of the wood cut was used for fencing and for firewood. Lumber was only made from the best trees that were easiest to cut. Still, there were nearly one billion acres of forests in what was to be the United States in 1630 and stayed that way until the end of the 18th century.

The 1850 Timber Depletion
The 1850's faced a major boom in cutting trees for lumber but still used as much wood for energy and fences as ever. This depletion of the forest continued until 1900 at which time the United States had fewer forests than ever before and less than we have today. The resource had been reduced to just over 700 million forested acres with poor stocking levels on many, if not most, of the Eastern forest.

Fledgling government forestry agencies were developed during that time and sounded the alarm. The newly formed Forest Service surveyed the Nation and announced a timber deficit. States became concerned and formed their own agencies to protect remaining forest lands. Nearly two-thirds of the net loss of forests to other uses occurred between 1850 and 1900. By 1920, the clearing of forests for agriculture had largely subsided.

http://forestry.about.com/library/bl_us_fores...

“Amor patriae.”

Since: Feb 08

Eastern Oregon

#47925 Jun 16, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>European Settlements Impact Forest Area
Growth of the very earliest European settlers in North America initiated large land clearing efforts which had a great impact on forest acreage - especially in the new colonies. Lumber was one of the first exports from the New World and these new English colonies produced great quantities of quality wood for England, mainly ship building.
Until the mid-1800's most of the wood cut was used for fencing and for firewood. Lumber was only made from the best trees that were easiest to cut. Still, there were nearly one billion acres of forests in what was to be the United States in 1630 and stayed that way until the end of the 18th century.
The 1850 Timber Depletion
The 1850's faced a major boom in cutting trees for lumber but still used as much wood for energy and fences as ever. This depletion of the forest continued until 1900 at which time the United States had fewer forests than ever before and less than we have today. The resource had been reduced to just over 700 million forested acres with poor stocking levels on many, if not most, of the Eastern forest.
Fledgling government forestry agencies were developed during that time and sounded the alarm. The newly formed Forest Service surveyed the Nation and announced a timber deficit. States became concerned and formed their own agencies to protect remaining forest lands. Nearly two-thirds of the net loss of forests to other uses occurred between 1850 and 1900. By 1920, the clearing of forests for agriculture had largely subsided.
http://forestry.about.com/library/bl_us_fores...
More useless entertainment. No one. I repeat, NO ONE in 1630 had the slightest idea of how much timber America held. Conversely, NO ONE alive today, knows how much timber was here in 1630. IF, in your droll diatribes you're actually referring to virgin forests, say so. And, if your world won't be "whole" until the country is again covered with them, follow my advise. First, eliminate all human occupation. Second, come back in 400 years.

“I Feel”

Since: Feb 09

Blest4it!

#47926 Jun 16, 2014
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
More useless entertainment. No one. I repeat, NO ONE in 1630 had the slightest idea of how much timber America held. Conversely, NO ONE alive today, knows how much timber was here in 1630. IF, in your droll diatribes you're actually referring to virgin forests, say so. And, if your world won't be "whole" until the country is again covered with them, follow my advise. First, eliminate all human occupation. Second, come back in 400 years.
Don't waste your time with the certifiable idiot, "Spaced Blues". He still insists Mann won a Nobel after being spoon fed facts for months. No intellectual honesty amongst unintelligent alarmists.

People like that are sociopaths who haven't the courage to admit being wrong. His ego is too fragile to own up to such a thing.
Rebecca

Chatsworth, CA

#47927 Jun 16, 2014
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course the timber industry is responsible...... Just how many giant redwood trees would be left if there was no government regulation. They don't grow back in 30 years.
We need to cut down the redwoods so we can measure them to see how tall they grow. Just back off fool.

“I Feel”

Since: Feb 09

Blest4it!

#47928 Jun 16, 2014
litesong wrote:
litesong wrote:
if you're gonna just make up shyt (that most people stopped reading long ago) and tell lies......why waste so much band width AND CO2 by doing it? aren't you for changing the climate, bird killer?

Since: Nov 08

Paris

#47929 Jun 17, 2014
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>hahaha start with this
http://vault.sierraclub.org/sierra/200211/old...
and educate yourself beyond the Hollywood films.
Still sleeping?
Sierra Club is a loon organization that is funded by communist.

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