Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39757 Sep 26, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Look on one hand you guys have labelled Global warming a liberal idea or a commie plot. Yet we live in a capitalist society, so if you have the money you can buy your green credits. To use your phrase "so what" if Al buys his credits, he can afford to do so, that's life under a capitalist system. Being green doesn't mean we all have to live in a cave, yet some of these tea baggers seem to think its a plot for UN world government. For each one of us, it would be next to impossible to live being carbon neutral, so we should pay for the privilege. If everyone did that then we wouldn't have a problem. That's the whole idea of reducing carbon emissions, there will be rich polluters and poor polluters. The rich can afford to have the electric or enviro car as their every day ride and keep the sports car in the garage for weekends. The less well off will only have one car to deal with. So how is that any different to living as we do now, not a damn thing. Carbon pricing doesn't change anything about who will be successful and who will struggle to survive. Its about adjusting lifestyle so that if each one of us reduce their carbon footprint to try and avoid a global catastrophe. It's all about making the average Joe who may have saved same spare cash and would like to buy a new ski boat but installs solar panels on his roof instead because it represents far better value to his family.
With the description you've just given how could one NOT think it's a liberal idea or a commie plant.

'All CO2 is equal but some CO2 is more equal.'

You give the rich, powerful elite a pass on their production of CO2, foisting it onto the average Joe to make up for it via 'carbon credits'.

Fearless leader, anyone?

So, that's one's goal? To become wealthy via capitalism to buy your 'indulgences'?

This is perhaps the weakest argument you've ever made.

As for the UN... their have been plenty of posts already that say flat out that global warming is a means to wealth transfer on a global scale, and you don't believe it when you hear it?

Why?

>>[W]e redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy."

Such was originally published by Germany's NZZ Online Sunday, and reprinted in English by the Global Warming Policy Foundation moments ago:

(EDENHOFER): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War....

(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

For the record, Edenhofer was co-chair of the IPCC's Working Group III, and was a lead author of the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report....

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/20...

And you wonder why some say 'Green is the new red'?
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39758 Sep 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
It is obvious that some of you folks have no scientific dispute with the science of global warming. That is why you must pick on Al Gore to attempt to support your baseless bias.
Yegads!

Are you not paying attention?

Whenever Al Gore is brought up you warmists defend him by saying he's not a 'scientist', then go mum on his carbon footprint.

Likewise for President Obama. Where was the outrage from the warmists when Michelle left early for her cross country flight to Hawaii for Christmas vacation? Why not call her out to not wait for the President and go together? What about the airlifts to get the dog around? Why not combine trips?

And before you go off on a tangent, I don't begrudge Obama his vacations-- it's a tough job. But when he preaches the mantra of the warmists and his own family cannot make the smallest concessions as to their fossil fuel useage, the hypocrisy speaks for itself.

Unless you're a warmist, of course. They give their 'leaders' a pass.

"Indulgences anyone? Buy your carbon credits here. Guilt free carbon. Just pay in advance and be the biggest damn hypocrite on the planet -- and we don't care!"

Sheesh...
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39759 Sep 26, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a variation on ad-hominem logic. The facts are impossible to deny so they try insulting the people that urge action. Demagoguery is common these days as nobody seems to sweat the meaning or basis of statements, looking around only for a clever way to throw mud on the issue.
And another for the peanut gallery....

Give Big Al a pass on his carbon footprints, cuz... uh.. well.... Hey! You must be anti-science!

Nothing like those non-sequitur arguments, huh?
B as in B S as in S

Minneapolis, MN

#39760 Sep 26, 2013
Mothra wrote:
<quoted text>
Yegads!
Are you not paying attention?
Whenever Al Gore is brought up you warmists defend him by saying he's not a 'scientist', then go mum on his carbon footprint.
Likewise for President Obama. Where was the outrage from the warmists when Michelle left early for her cross country flight to Hawaii for Christmas vacation? Why not call her out to not wait for the President and go together? What about the airlifts to get the dog around? Why not combine trips?
And before you go off on a tangent, I don't begrudge Obama his vacations-- it's a tough job. But when he preaches the mantra of the warmists and his own family cannot make the smallest concessions as to their fossil fuel useage, the hypocrisy speaks for itself.
Unless you're a warmist, of course. They give their 'leaders' a pass.
"Indulgences anyone? Buy your carbon credits here. Guilt free carbon. Just pay in advance and be the biggest damn hypocrite on the planet -- and we don't care!"
Sheesh...
Further evidence that CAGW (Warmism) is a religion.
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39761 Sep 26, 2013
B as in B S as in S wrote:
<quoted text>
Further evidence that CAGW (Warmism) is a religion.
Their 'faith' in their 'science' has such a religious fervor.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39762 Sep 26, 2013
Mothra wrote:
<quoted text>
Their 'faith' in their 'science' has such a religious fervor.
So true in that they use fear to try to make believers. Just an example:

NASA puts out a report that Greenland and Antarctica’s combined rate of melting has increased over the last 20 years and they are losing more than three times as much ice per year. Sounds scary right? But if you actually look at the numbers, the fear mongering is baseless. The rise is now 0.04 inches per year; 0.013 inches for Antarctica (statistically zero) and 0.026 inches for Greenland (statistically zero). Not to mention that the capability to even measure such small increments is not reliable. Everyone gets worked up over the word “accelerating” without digging into the numbers.

Same with global temperatures. In reality, these temperatures have been pretty much tied since 1998 with no accelerating rise.

But the alarmists don’t look at the actual numbers and instead visualize a world that will be inhabitable due to the sins of man’s dependence on CO2 and material objects. It wouldn’t matter if the Arctic was starting a recovery and the ice started growing back to 20th century levels, it wouldn’t matter if the sea levels decreased, it wouldn’t matter if the temperatures decreased to 20th century levels, they would still insist there was missing heat and that CO2 was taking a break, but it would come roaring back to haunt us. Science has no place in a belief that man is causing the destruction of Earth (Gaia).

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#39763 Sep 26, 2013
Mothra wrote:
<quoted text>
Yegads!
Are you not paying attention?
Whenever Al Gore is brought up you warmists defend him by saying he's not a 'scientist', then go mum on his carbon footprint.
Likewise for President Obama. Where was the outrage from the warmists when Michelle left early for her cross country flight to Hawaii for Christmas vacation? Why not call her out to not wait for the President and go together? What about the airlifts to get the dog around? Why not combine trips?
And before you go off on a tangent, I don't begrudge Obama his vacations-- it's a tough job. But when he preaches the mantra of the warmists and his own family cannot make the smallest concessions as to their fossil fuel useage, the hypocrisy speaks for itself.
Unless you're a warmist, of course. They give their 'leaders' a pass.
"Indulgences anyone? Buy your carbon credits here. Guilt free carbon. Just pay in advance and be the biggest damn hypocrite on the planet -- and we don't care!"
Sheesh...
Science don't count!

http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/dt/...
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39764 Sep 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Science don't count!
http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/dt/...
Good to see you realize that science doesn’t matter in your firm belief that we are headed for an AGW catastrophe.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#39765 Sep 26, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see you realize that science doesn’t matter in your firm belief that we are headed for an AGW catastrophe.
Sorry, but science is the only way that we will understand our effects on the future climate of our world. The best way to prevent an environmental catastrophe is to understand the causes and effects. Beating up on AL Gore and Michael Mann is not exactly the best way to get to the root of the problem. You folks neglect the findings of science. You pick any marginal study or blog to hang your hat on if it denies those findings, no matter how many times it has been disputed by reputable scientists.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#39766 Sep 26, 2013
krusty the clown wrote:
<quoted text>
So true in that they use fear to try to make believers. Just an example:
NASA puts out a report that Greenland and Antarctica’s combined rate of melting has increased over the last 20 years and they are losing more than three times as much ice per year. Sounds scary right? But if you actually look at the numbers, the fear mongering is baseless. The rise is now 0.04 inches per year; 0.013 inches for Antarctica (statistically zero) and 0.026 inches for Greenland (statistically zero).
Numbers are not "statistically zero" just because they are small.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#39767 Sep 26, 2013
kristy wrote:
It wouldn’t matter if the Arctic was starting a recovery and the ice started growing back to 20th century levels
Yep, definitely the start of a recovery there.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#39768 Sep 26, 2013
Sarcasm is dead.

Ask yourself, where are all the man-made heat-trapping gases going at a rate of 90 million tons per day?

And what are they causing at an energy equivalent of 400,000 hiroshimas daily?

Humans were not around when the planet had CO2 concentrations at the modern levels. Scientists find the man-made emissions are raising the CO2 levels faster than the natural occurences of the past. What is clear however we are measuring the effects of the man-made global warming as it happens and/or after a natural variation is swiched on/off.

Also, that global warming goes on and on .. with companion consequences..

RIP.
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39769 Sep 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Science don't count!
http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/dt/...
Like I said, where is the outrage that the biggest propopents of your 'science' aren't abiding by it?

<crickets>
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39770 Sep 26, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
So true in that they use fear to try to make believers. Just an example:
NASA puts out a report that Greenland and Antarctica’s combined rate of melting has increased over the last 20 years and they are losing more than three times as much ice per year. Sounds scary right? But if you actually look at the numbers, the fear mongering is baseless. The rise is now 0.04 inches per year; 0.013 inches for Antarctica (statistically zero) and 0.026 inches for Greenland (statistically zero). Not to mention that the capability to even measure such small increments is not reliable. Everyone gets worked up over the word “accelerating” without digging into the numbers.
Same with global temperatures. In reality, these temperatures have been pretty much tied since 1998 with no accelerating rise.
But the alarmists don’t look at the actual numbers and instead visualize a world that will be inhabitable due to the sins of man’s dependence on CO2 and material objects. It wouldn’t matter if the Arctic was starting a recovery and the ice started growing back to 20th century levels, it wouldn’t matter if the sea levels decreased, it wouldn’t matter if the temperatures decreased to 20th century levels, they would still insist there was missing heat and that CO2 was taking a break, but it would come roaring back to haunt us. Science has no place in a belief that man is causing the destruction of Earth (Gaia).
Indeed it's always important to look at the numbers behind the percentages.

As we'll be treated to the "95% certainty" line ad nauseum -- brought to you by those whose temperature predictions greatly exaggerated reality and cannot explain why temperatures stopped warming.

I'm sure they are certain... but with their track record, so what?
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

#39771 Sep 26, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see you realize that science doesn’t matter in your firm belief that we are headed for an AGW catastrophe.
And let's not forget that the warmists allow a free-pass of the 'science' to their "leaders" for pumping massive amounts CO2 into the atmosphere cuz the bought their indulgences

Nothing like the logic of the Inquisition era is there?
Patriot AKA Bozo

Wichita, KS

#39773 Sep 26, 2013
Mothra wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, where is the outrage that the biggest propopents of your 'science' aren't abiding by it?
<crickets>
Whining that someone else is not doing their part is not an argument, it is simply a rationalization. The problem exists. What is important is structuring our energy system so we can mimimize the effects. It is not a problem that individauls can solve, it must be a sociatial effort. Of course you understand that but are not astute enough to admit it.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39774 Sep 26, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but science is the only way that we will understand our effects on the future climate of our world. The best way to prevent an environmental catastrophe is to understand the causes and effects. Beating up on AL Gore and Michael Mann is not exactly the best way to get to the root of the problem. You folks neglect the findings of science. You pick any marginal study or blog to hang your hat on if it denies those findings, no matter how many times it has been disputed by reputable scientists.
Oh, so it's ok to beat up on Judith Curry, Roger Pielke, John Christy, Roy Spencer, Richard Lindzen, Sallie Baliunas, Willie Soon, Henrik Svensmark to name a few just because they don't agree with catastrophic AGW? Funny how you trash these people with blogs. Funny how you all take papers such as Trenberth's missing heat paper and treat it as if it were gospel when there is no agreement that the "missing heat" is the deep oceans or if there is even any missing heat. Funny how most of the time you all post opinion pieces instead of data as the reason people are in "denial."

Bottom line, the models did not predict a standstill at this point in time, the oceans and temperatures are not rising at an alarming rate. What we are seeing is what one would expect in a warming world coming out of the LIA. The only thing showing alarming rates of warming are the models which do not live up to the observations. That is fact.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39775 Sep 26, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Numbers are not "statistically zero" just because they are small.
My point exactly, they are small, not alarming and what one would expect to see in a world coming out of the LIA.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39776 Sep 26, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, definitely the start of a recovery there.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/...
I'm not predicting this is a start of a recovery, I said IF the arctic ice made a recovery to 20th century levels, you all would still claim the heat was hiding and that AGW was responsible and would come roaring back.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#39777 Sep 26, 2013
Mothra wrote:
<quoted text>
With the description you've just given how could one NOT think it's a liberal idea or a commie plant.

And you wonder why some say 'Green is the new red'?
And OzRitz really loves China and admires their ability to control their people...He can overlook the corruption and human right violations because, you know, China is a country we should strive to emulate.

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