Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.
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35,221 - 35,240 of 45,822 Comments Last updated 19 hrs ago
Bargeman

Cadiz, KY

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#37506
Jul 29, 2013
 

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B as in B S as in S wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right! Those Democrats sure are different.
Remember when the Trade towers collapsed? The 1st thing The Republican POTUS did was to accept full responsibility for not keeping this country safe from terrorism. Oh... and it was the "True" American Patriots who got on TV and told The People that we needed the NSA: another new level of bureaucracy in our ever larger federal government.
Yup. "You people" are sure a bunch o' smart fellas.
Yep, you sure are a smart fella.

The NSA was established on November 4, 1952, over 60 years ago, during the administration of President Harry S. Truman.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

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#37507
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Here you go.
http://www.moyhu.org.s3.amazonaws.com/trend/N...
As you can see, the trend for the last 10 years might be flat, but the trend over the last 15 years is positive.
A ten year pause in ENSO-adjusted temperatures is not unusual in the models, according to the report *you* cited, in fact such pauses are predicted by the models.
A 15 year pause in unadjusted temperatures is not unusual according to the report B as in B S as in S cited, in fact such a pause is to be expected twice a century.
According to the reports you two cited, for a pause to be unusual, it would have to be 15 years in the ENSO-adjusted temperatures, or 20 years in the adjusted temperatures.
The current pause is not unexpected according to either report.
Trying to use a 15 year period in unadjusted temperatures to claim the models are off according to a report which talks about adjusted temperatures shows either ignorance or mendacity.
I have explained where you misunderstood, so you now have no reason to repeat the same claim except mendacity.
So, are you prepared to accept the scientific report *you* chose to cite, or are you a liar who will continue to misuse it to make false claims?
Again, could you please post the information you have on the ENSO-ADJUSTED temperatures for the last 15 years. You posted the NOAA adjusted and unadjusted temperatures. NOAA's adjusted temperatures take these 5 factors into account:

1. Time of observation.
2. Change in maximum/minimum thermometers used.
3. Changes in station siting.
4. Filling in missing data from individual station records.
5. UHI effects.

Nothing about adjusting for ENSO.

NOAA used the the Method of Thompson to come up with Enso-Adjusted temperatures in the 2008 State of Climate Report I posted. As you obviously have that information available to you, again I ask could you please post it.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

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#37508
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. You are so uncaring that you wouldn't mind letting them suffer. Rather cold aren't you? The masses take care of their needs while the companies exploit their labor. Neat arrangement.
Focus, focus, focus....let's stay on topic and get away from the histrionics.

You asked this: "What caused the illegals in the country? We cannot blame the impoverished folks from Mexico. They just want to provide for themselves. The problem has been those who knowingly hire them because they can exploit them for profit. Otherwise we could have brought them across in a legal manner."

I was only stating that couldn't there be other reasons for the Mexicans to cross the border, like sanctuary cities offering handouts? I made no mention of wanting people to suffer. It was just an observation. When a Mexican crosses the border, they know exactly what they are getting into. The companies can't exploit someone who willingly breaks the law to come here knowing they will get low pay. So why are they leaving Mexico if our wages are so crappy? Is it because they have lower wages in Mexico? Is it because the Mexican government is so corrupt that it is unable to take care of its own? Is it because the standard of living is so low in Mexico, that coming to America is an upgrade? But anyway, per your logic, companies who DON'T hire illegals are the ones who want to see people suffer. If a company doesn't hire an illegal, they are just COLD, depriving an illegal money to help their families in crappy Mexico.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#37509
Jul 29, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>To another poster:
Again, could you please post the information you have on the ENSO-ADJUSTED temperatures for the last 15 years. You posted the NOAA adjusted and unadjusted temperatures. NOAA's adjusted temperatures take these 5 factors into account:
1. Time of observation.
2. Change in maximum/minimum thermometers used.
3. Changes in station siting.
4. Filling in missing data from individual station records.
5. UHI effects.
Nothing about adjusting for ENSO.
NOAA used the the Method of Thompson to come up with Enso-Adjusted temperatures in the 2008 State of Climate Report I posted. As you obviously have that information available to you, again I ask could you please post it.
Who cares!

Your interest is strictly nontopical here. Do you support ninety million tons of daily man-made emissions into our atmosphere?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

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#37510
Jul 29, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
Who cares! Your interest is strictly nontopical here. Do you support ninety million tons of daily man-made emissions into our atmosphere?
We exhale CO2 too, don't forget to add that in.

Since: Mar 09

Glenwood Springs, CO

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#37511
Jul 29, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Focus, focus, focus....let's stay on topic and get away from the histrionics.
You asked this: "What caused the illegals in the country? We cannot blame the impoverished folks from Mexico. They just want to provide for themselves. The problem has been those who knowingly hire them because they can exploit them for profit. Otherwise we could have brought them across in a legal manner."
I was only stating that couldn't there be other reasons for the Mexicans to cross the border, like sanctuary cities offering handouts? I made no mention of wanting people to suffer. It was just an observation. When a Mexican crosses the border, they know exactly what they are getting into. The companies can't exploit someone who willingly breaks the law to come here knowing they will get low pay. So why are they leaving Mexico if our wages are so crappy? Is it because they have lower wages in Mexico? Is it because the Mexican government is so corrupt that it is unable to take care of its own? Is it because the standard of living is so low in Mexico, that coming to America is an upgrade? But anyway, per your logic, companies who DON'T hire illegals are the ones who want to see people suffer. If a company doesn't hire an illegal, they are just COLD, depriving an illegal money to help their families in crappy Mexico.
That is the reason they are here, because someone wants them here. Otherwise the borders would be sealed.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#37512
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>We exhale CO2 too, don't forget to add that in.
Why?

Since: Mar 09

Glenwood Springs, CO

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#37513
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Coal is King wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Land has zero value until it is made productive. It does not even have potential value until it is made accessible to the markets. The railroads made the worthless land of the American West accessible. The railroads, not the government, gave it potential value. The settlers who bought it from the railroads gave it real value when the made it productive. The settlers who got the adjacent free land from the government under the Homestead Act got a free ride from the railroads and the settlers who bought their land.
The government also made low interest loans to them because the RR's could not get enough capital to lay the track.
chisholm

Columbus, OH

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#37514
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Coal is King wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Land has zero value until it is made productive. It does not even have potential value until it is made accessible to the markets. The railroads made the worthless land of the American West accessible. The railroads, not the government, gave it potential value. The settlers who bought it from the railroads gave it real value when the made it productive. The settlers who got the adjacent free land from the government under the Homestead Act got a free ride from the railroads and the settlers who bought their land.
You mean "valuable" only in the capitalist sense, I assume. Land with trees, vegetation, natural beauty, and native peoples on it obviously isn't "worthless."

Settlement of the West has ruined large parts of it, thank goodness that leaders like Teddy Roosevelt put aside large tracts to be free from capitalist "development" that would've destroyed it.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#37515
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Coal is King wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Land has zero value until it is made productive.
total nonsense. Land ALWAYS has a 'real value' of potential use. Giving it away was a REAL giveaway. And led to the massive profits of the Rockefeller's, etc. Not to mention the anti-trust laws that were necessary to get the government back in control after they gave away so much to a small cadre of entitled elite. That is one danger of government help. They may make a bunch of sociopaths powerful and without retraint. It probably was a major factor in WW2 as well (half the german war supplies came from these guys. Did they care? Nope. They were backing germany to ensure that labor unions couldn't form. They got their wish. No labor unions in the prison camps and slave pits of the third reich.. but they lost in the US (where they were also active).

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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#37516
Jul 29, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, could you please post the information you have on the ENSO-ADJUSTED temperatures for the last 15 years. You posted the NOAA adjusted and unadjusted temperatures.
Yes, ENSO-adjusted temperatures.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

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#37517
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, ENSO-adjusted temperatures.
This is like pulling teeth. Your graph means nothing unless you provide the method used for the adjustments. Can you post the link to the NOAA site that explains the methodology? Is this the Thompson method?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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#37519
Jul 29, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is like pulling teeth. Your graph means nothing unless you provide the method used for the adjustments. Can you post the link to the NOAA site that explains the methodology? Is this the Thompson method?
Sorry Krusty,*you* made the mistake in confusing unadjusted and ENSO-adjusted temperatures. If you want to argue that ENSO-adjusted temperatures have been flat for 15 years, the onus is on *you* to do that. I've shown you a graph to show that they are not: there's a positive trend in ENSO-adjysted temperatures for that period.
gcaveman1

Glendale Heights, IL

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#37520
Jul 29, 2013
 

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Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>As in "CO2 as a thermal pollutant."
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
Yes, not just in water, but it's beginning to be seen as a thermal pollutant for its effect on the air.

How do you feel about the post about Spain taxing solar collection? Will we see you protesting in the streets of Madrid soon?

Since: Jul 11

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#37521
Jul 29, 2013
 

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chisholm wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean "valuable" only in the capitalist sense, I assume. Land with trees, vegetation, natural beauty, and native peoples on it obviously isn't "worthless."
Settlement of the West has ruined large parts of it, thank goodness that leaders like Teddy Roosevelt put aside large tracts to be free from capitalist "development" that would've destroyed it.
I'm glad you see the real value in landscape lies in what is on top of the ground rather than what is underneath. That is another mindset that needs changing in the right of politics.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

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#37522
Jul 30, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Krusty,*you* made the mistake in confusing unadjusted and ENSO-adjusted temperatures. If you want to argue that ENSO-adjusted temperatures have been flat for 15 years, the onus is on *you* to do that. I've shown you a graph to show that they are not: there's a positive trend in ENSO-adjysted temperatures for that period.
Again the graph you showed has no meaning unless you post the methodology. How did you figure out the adjusted temperature temperatures were Enso adjusted just by looking at the graph? Bottom line, the onus is on you. You are the one who has stated there is a strong positive trend and so far all you have shown me is a graph with no meaning. With all the controversy surrounding model failures, then one would have to assume that NOAA would have updated their enso- adjusted findings from 2008 and released those results with great fanfare to show us they were correct in their prediction that warming would resume after 2008.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#37523
Jul 30, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again the graph you showed has no meaning unless you post the methodology. How did you figure out the adjusted temperature temperatures were Enso adjusted just by looking at the graph? Bottom line, the onus is on you. You are the one who has stated there is a strong positive trend and so far all you have shown me is a graph with no meaning. With all the controversy surrounding model failures, then one would have to assume that NOAA would have updated their enso- adjusted findings from 2008 and released those results with great fanfare to show us they were correct in their prediction that warming would resume after 2008.
Nonsense.

Your ignorance is ahowing. First, tell us about your preferred methodology.

And compare it quantitatively against the alternatives w.r.t. relevance and significance to the raging man-made climate change.
chisholm

Columbus, OH

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#37524
Jul 30, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again the graph you showed has no meaning unless you post the methodology. How did you figure out the adjusted temperature temperatures were Enso adjusted just by looking at the graph? Bottom line, the onus is on you. You are the one who has stated there is a strong positive trend and so far all you have shown me is a graph with no meaning. With all the controversy surrounding model failures, then one would have to assume that NOAA would have updated their enso- adjusted findings from 2008 and released those results with great fanfare to show us they were correct in their prediction that warming would resume after 2008.
Puzzled by what you intend with your phrase "..warming would resume after 2008."

Is it your contention that because an overall upward trend is interrupted by a brief downward turn or two, it's no longer an upward trend?

That really seems more like contentiousness than debate.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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#37525
Jul 30, 2013
 

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kristy wrote:
How did you figure out the adjusted temperature temperatures were Enso adjusted just by looking at the graph?
No, I looked for adjusted temperatures and found the graph.

Where's yours?

*you* made the claim,*you* back it up.

I'm not going to do your work for you.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

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#37526
Jul 30, 2013
 

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chisholm wrote:
<quoted text>
Puzzled by what you intend with your phrase "..warming would resume after 2008."
Is it your contention that because an overall upward trend is interrupted by a brief downward turn or two, it's no longer an upward trend?
That really seems more like contentiousness than debate.
Yes, that phrase does seem more like contentiousness rather than debate doesn't it? NOAA said this in their 2008 State of the Climate Report after discussing the pause in warming:

"Given the likelihood that internal variability contributed to the slowing of global temperature rise in the last decade, we expect that warming will resume in the next few years, consistent with predictions from near-term climate forecasts."

So if you have a problem with the statement I posted, take it up with NOAA, please. More debate would be nice rather than contentiousness.

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