Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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Coal is King

Kuttawa, KY

#37489 Jul 28, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
It has been decades since I have been in school so what history I learned hasn't been from that!:)
You need to go back to school and learn how the government subsidized the railroads.
Most of the capital investment needed to build the railroad were got from selling government guaranteed bonds (granted per mile of completed track) to interested investors. The financial incentives and bonds would hopefully cover most of the initial capital investment needed to build the railroad. The bonds would be paid back by the sale of government granted land and prospective passenger and freight income. In addition to the railroad land grants which the railroads sold at low cost to pay back their government backed bonds (all were repaid) the 37th United States Congress passed the Homestead Acts which were several United States federal laws that sold an applicant 160 acres (65 ha) of unclaimed government owned land, typically called a "homestead", at low cost when the applicant did some prescribed work on it. There was now a strong and relatively low cost incentive for the settlement of the west which many thousands took advantage of. The railroads started new population growth and potential population growth induced many other railroads to be built and connected to the transcontinental railroad to serve communities and states off the original main track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transconti...
I know, the awful government made the coal barons quit using child labor to sort coal and made the owners improve their mine safety.
The federal government DID NOT subsidize the railroads as you say. The only thing that came close to it was during the era of carpetbagger rule in the South. The carpetbaggers did float a great many railroad bond schemes in which the bonds were guaranteed by the states. The schemes collapsed one after another. Most of them were total frauds. They build little or no railroad track. They did make the carpetbaggers millionaires.

The western railroads were built with private capital. That capital was raised by selling land. It worked this way: The government gave wilderness wasteland to the railroads. The railroad companies had to develop that land and make it accessible. Settlers bought the land and made it productive. Goods produced on the land then were shipped on the railroad, making it profitable.

Since: Mar 09

Penrose, CO

#37490 Jul 28, 2013
To Coal is King:
While I sympathize with the Appalachian coal miners, the plight is not limited to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transconti...
WASHINGTON (AP)-- Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.

There is no doubt that the economy is in trouble with some gaining bountifully while the majority are losing ground. There needs to be some kind of adjustment. Labor in the USA is losing to foreigners, illegals, and technology.

Robot assemblers, computers, and others have eliminated or reduced assembly line workers, lathe operators, secretaries, for example, and many many others.

No longer are the masses of unskilled and semiskilled needed. The question is what will replace their jobs?

Then the problem becomes, who will buy the products if there is not enough wealth in the lower classes?
Coal is King

Kuttawa, KY

#37491 Jul 28, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
To Coal is King:
While I sympathize with the Appalachian coal miners, the plight is not limited to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transconti...
WASHINGTON (AP)-- Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.
There is no doubt that the economy is in trouble with some gaining bountifully while the majority are losing ground. There needs to be some kind of adjustment. Labor in the USA is losing to foreigners, illegals, and technology.
Robot assemblers, computers, and others have eliminated or reduced assembly line workers, lathe operators, secretaries, for example, and many many others.
No longer are the masses of unskilled and semiskilled needed. The question is what will replace their jobs?
Then the problem becomes, who will buy the products if there is not enough wealth in the lower classes?
Well we don't sympathize with you tree hugger environmentalists nor do we want your so-called sympathy.

There is no reasoning with you people. The only way to deal with you is head-on, bare knuckles confrontation. We're ready. As John Paul Jones said, "We have not yet begun to fight."

We're going to go after you and your Global Warming Hoax and fraudulent "green" technology from the ground up and from the top down. We're going to work hard to take the U.S. Senate and the White House back. Then we'll press our legislators to put an end to Obama's war on coal and end government support for the "green" energy frauds. We're also going to work at the local level, through state, city, and local ordinances and building codes, to get the wind and solar nuisances banned.
litesong

Monroe, WA

#37492 Jul 28, 2013
ol kinked coal wrote:
The federal government DID NOT subsidize the railroads as you say.

The government gave wilderness wasteland to the railroads.
Glad you value land as zero & that the land of america was a wasteland.......so you can say the federal gov't did not subsidize railroads.

We now know how re-pubic-lick-uns view land.....
litesong

Monroe, WA

#37493 Jul 28, 2013
ol kinked coal wrote:
Well we don't sympathize with you tree hugger environmentalists......
Coal barons never sympathized with anyone, specially the blue collars who made fortunes for coal barons.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37494 Jul 28, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
You can say that laws don't make any difference when it was proven beyond doubt they do. For instance Canada & Australia as well as quite a few Scandinavian countries had laws limiting what Banks could risk their money in, the same laws also demand a certain percentage of their liquidity to be on hand. In the US, some banks over extended themselves by as much as 150%, now clearly any drop in market would render them insolvent. Yet this was Reagan "cutting the red tape" on business by allowing self regulation. Clinton also helped as well. If you have concrete laws in place, like limiting how big any Bank, Media organisation can get that is also a protection from too big to fail. But that has been ignored also.
All the countries that did not have those laws took a huge hit, and by the way the financial markets are connected today there are no borders. So countries doing the right thing take a hit as well.
That is what you ELECT a government for, to look after the interest of the majority & the country as a whole, not just the Goldman Sachs' of this world. But as soon as someone mentions any form of government control, out come the words "socialist" , "commies" from to right trying to protect the status quo. They don't want any Sheriff in town. Global Warming is no different, it's big business calling the shots until someone has the ball$ to say enough is enough!
The countries you mentioned don't have a Federal Reserve. Like I said, Congress can make any law it wants, but they don’t control the banks or the money. In the United States, the only deposit categories currently subject to reserve requirements are net transactions accounts, mainly checking accounts. A depository institution can satisfy its reserve requirements by holding either vault cash or reserve deposits. An institution that is a member of the Federal Reserve System must hold its reserve deposits at a Federal Reserve Bank. Nonmember institutions can elect to hold their reserve deposits at a member institution.

Here are the reserve criteria:
• Between $12.4 million and $79.5 million must have a liquidity ratio of 3%;
• Exceeding $79.5 million must have a liquidity ratio of 10%.
• Effective December 27, 1990, a liquidity ratio of zero has applied to CDs, savings deposits, and time deposits, owned by entities other than households, and the Eurocurrency liabilities of depository institutions. Deposits owned by foreign corporations or governments are currently not subject to reserve requirements.

Now when an institution fails to satisfy its reserve requirements, it can MAKE UP THE DEFICIENCY WITH RESERVES BORROWED FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK. Such loans are typically due in 24 hours or less. This is how fragile our system is. Basically a bank never has to have a reserve. These banks are lending out at least 100%, leaving no reserve ratio, but instead just borrowing it every 24 hours from the FED. So you can see how the banks overextended by 150%, because the FEDERAL RESERVE ENCOURAGED IT, by allowing them to take out a loan every night. Glass Steagull would not have changed that fact because at the same time our government decided to guarantee all mortgage backed loans through Fannie and Freddy, thus creating the ultimate moral hazard. None of the banks felt that they were at risk because now the government will cover them and the Federal Reserve will loan them their reserves every day.

If you want to understand how these bailouts aren’t about us, here is just one example of 7 trillion dollars. GMAC was not eligible for a bailout in 2008 because it was not a bank holding company. The Federal Reserve, on its own, without congress or government oversight, approved an application for GMAC to become a bank holding company. GMAC then received a 5 billion dollar bailout. Seriously they would make companies into banks to give them a bailout.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37495 Jul 28, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember it was the conservative attitude of freeing capitalism by relaxing banking regulations and influence of the mighty corporations that allowed them to go wild. The teabaggers seem to hate government yet support the very things that brought us to the brink.
It is more than the lynch pins of the Tea Party posting the Ten Commandments, praying in school, and Anti-abortion and gay marriage that we need to focus upon. As voters, we need to quit listening to the hot buttons of hatred and prejudices and focus on making America the country of the many. What caused the illegals in the country? We cannot blame the impoverished folks from Mexico. They just want to provide for themselves. The problem has been those who knowingly hire them because they can exploit them for profit. Otherwise we could have brought them across in a legal manner.
Getting back to the political influence of the conservatives, we see a definite rejection by them of the scientific findings of global warming and even pollution of the environment by industries. The ultra conservatives are playing fiddle to the industro-financial machine that is plaguing the USA.
Regarding the illegals, how can we blame just the companies who hire the illegals when there are sanctuary cities all over the country who flagrantly violated the law of the land, giving handouts to all? Don’t you think that had a lot to do with the illegals coming over?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#37496 Jul 28, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
...you people...
Coal is King wrote:
...you people.
Sock puppet alert!

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#37497 Jul 28, 2013
B as in B S as in S wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I'll play just this once...
In the ENSO it is too!
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
O'RLY?
Please show me a graph.
Not playing after all, huh?
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37498 Jul 29, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Not playing after all, huh?
Could you post the information you have on the enso-adjusted temperatures for the 15-year time frame?

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#37499 Jul 29, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act was passed by a partisan vote.The bill then moved to a joint conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. Democrats agreed to support the bill after Republicans agreed to strengthen provisions of the anti-redlining Community Reinvestment Act and address certain privacy concerns; the conference committee then finished its work by the beginning of November. On November 4, the final bill resolving the differences was passed by the Senate 90-8, and by the House 362-57. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Blil...
As you see, the bill was veto proof. This was after the conservative mantra reenforced by the right wing media that if the market was turned loose, everything would be utopian.
LOL.....so now it was bi-partisan instead of conservative? Why do you need to lie, son??

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#37500 Jul 29, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Sock puppet alert!
you trolls...

Since: Mar 09

Penrose, CO

#37501 Jul 29, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding the illegals, how can we blame just the companies who hire the illegals when there are sanctuary cities all over the country who flagrantly violated the law of the land, giving handouts to all? Don’t you think that had a lot to do with the illegals coming over?
I see. You are so uncaring that you wouldn't mind letting them suffer. Rather cold aren't you? The masses take care of their needs while the companies exploit their labor. Neat arrangement.

Since: Mar 09

Penrose, CO

#37502 Jul 29, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>LOL.....so now it was bi-partisan instead of conservative? Why do you need to lie, son??
I never lied. The attitude of the RW folks was projected to the country through the RW media with the Limbaughites. It is justice that Limbaugh is losing sponsors and carriers today. The Democrats are politicians like the Republicans and do what they think will get them votes. Most all of them,R and D are parasites. However you cut it, the regulations on banks were attacked by the R since inception.

They are doing the same thing today by attacking science.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#37503 Jul 29, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you post the information you have on the enso-adjusted temperatures for the 15-year time frame?
Here you go.

http://www.moyhu.org.s3.amazonaws.com/trend/N...

As you can see, the trend for the last 10 years might be flat, but the trend over the last 15 years is positive.

A ten year pause in ENSO-adjusted temperatures is not unusual in the models, according to the report *you* cited, in fact such pauses are predicted by the models.

A 15 year pause in unadjusted temperatures is not unusual according to the report B as in B S as in S cited, in fact such a pause is to be expected twice a century.

According to the reports you two cited, for a pause to be unusual, it would have to be 15 years in the ENSO-adjusted temperatures, or 20 years in the adjusted temperatures.

The current pause is not unexpected according to either report.

Trying to use a 15 year period in unadjusted temperatures to claim the models are off according to a report which talks about adjusted temperatures shows either ignorance or mendacity.

I have explained where you misunderstood, so you now have no reason to repeat the same claim except mendacity.

So, are you prepared to accept the scientific report *you* chose to cite, or are you a liar who will continue to misuse it to make false claims?
Coal is King

La Fayette, KY

#37504 Jul 29, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad you value land as zero & that the land of america was a wasteland.......so you can say the federal gov't did not subsidize railroads.
We now know how re-pubic-lick-uns view land.....
Yes. Land has zero value until it is made productive. It does not even have potential value until it is made accessible to the markets. The railroads made the worthless land of the American West accessible. The railroads, not the government, gave it potential value. The settlers who bought it from the railroads gave it real value when the made it productive. The settlers who got the adjacent free land from the government under the Homestead Act got a free ride from the railroads and the settlers who bought their land.
B as in B S as in S

Minneapolis, MN

#37505 Jul 29, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>
It's bad enough that you people are always promoting bad ideas, but when things go wrong.....you blame others for your decisions.
You're right! Those Democrats sure are different.

Remember when the Trade towers collapsed? The 1st thing The Republican POTUS did was to accept full responsibility for not keeping this country safe from terrorism. Oh... and it was the "True" American Patriots who got on TV and told The People that we needed the NSA: another new level of bureaucracy in our ever larger federal government.

Yup. "You people" are sure a bunch o' smart fellas.
Bargeman

La Fayette, KY

#37506 Jul 29, 2013
B as in B S as in S wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right! Those Democrats sure are different.
Remember when the Trade towers collapsed? The 1st thing The Republican POTUS did was to accept full responsibility for not keeping this country safe from terrorism. Oh... and it was the "True" American Patriots who got on TV and told The People that we needed the NSA: another new level of bureaucracy in our ever larger federal government.
Yup. "You people" are sure a bunch o' smart fellas.
Yep, you sure are a smart fella.

The NSA was established on November 4, 1952, over 60 years ago, during the administration of President Harry S. Truman.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37507 Jul 29, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Here you go.
http://www.moyhu.org.s3.amazonaws.com/trend/N...
As you can see, the trend for the last 10 years might be flat, but the trend over the last 15 years is positive.
A ten year pause in ENSO-adjusted temperatures is not unusual in the models, according to the report *you* cited, in fact such pauses are predicted by the models.
A 15 year pause in unadjusted temperatures is not unusual according to the report B as in B S as in S cited, in fact such a pause is to be expected twice a century.
According to the reports you two cited, for a pause to be unusual, it would have to be 15 years in the ENSO-adjusted temperatures, or 20 years in the adjusted temperatures.
The current pause is not unexpected according to either report.
Trying to use a 15 year period in unadjusted temperatures to claim the models are off according to a report which talks about adjusted temperatures shows either ignorance or mendacity.
I have explained where you misunderstood, so you now have no reason to repeat the same claim except mendacity.
So, are you prepared to accept the scientific report *you* chose to cite, or are you a liar who will continue to misuse it to make false claims?
Again, could you please post the information you have on the ENSO-ADJUSTED temperatures for the last 15 years. You posted the NOAA adjusted and unadjusted temperatures. NOAA's adjusted temperatures take these 5 factors into account:

1. Time of observation.
2. Change in maximum/minimum thermometers used.
3. Changes in station siting.
4. Filling in missing data from individual station records.
5. UHI effects.

Nothing about adjusting for ENSO.

NOAA used the the Method of Thompson to come up with Enso-Adjusted temperatures in the 2008 State of Climate Report I posted. As you obviously have that information available to you, again I ask could you please post it.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37508 Jul 29, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. You are so uncaring that you wouldn't mind letting them suffer. Rather cold aren't you? The masses take care of their needs while the companies exploit their labor. Neat arrangement.
Focus, focus, focus....let's stay on topic and get away from the histrionics.

You asked this: "What caused the illegals in the country? We cannot blame the impoverished folks from Mexico. They just want to provide for themselves. The problem has been those who knowingly hire them because they can exploit them for profit. Otherwise we could have brought them across in a legal manner."

I was only stating that couldn't there be other reasons for the Mexicans to cross the border, like sanctuary cities offering handouts? I made no mention of wanting people to suffer. It was just an observation. When a Mexican crosses the border, they know exactly what they are getting into. The companies can't exploit someone who willingly breaks the law to come here knowing they will get low pay. So why are they leaving Mexico if our wages are so crappy? Is it because they have lower wages in Mexico? Is it because the Mexican government is so corrupt that it is unable to take care of its own? Is it because the standard of living is so low in Mexico, that coming to America is an upgrade? But anyway, per your logic, companies who DON'T hire illegals are the ones who want to see people suffer. If a company doesn't hire an illegal, they are just COLD, depriving an illegal money to help their families in crappy Mexico.

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