Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

#37056 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What do I think?
Let me ask you instead; why am I not surprised?
Except as a statement of the Tea Party's muddled libertarian ideology, I can't see the House version of the Farm Bill amounting to much. It will never get through the Democrat controlled Senate. Even if it did President Obama would veto it.

I can't find a better example of the Tea Party's deadlock strategy, however. They are too few to really enact their legislative agenda, but there are enough of them and they understand the political process well enough to monkeywrench the machinery of government. They also understand the thinking or the people at home who elect them enough to stay in office. Many of those voters are too ignorant (if not outright stupid) to recognize what their own self interests are. That is especially true when it comes to their economic interests.

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#37057 Jul 16, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Any religious viewpoint such as yours has to deal with the fact that GOD doesn't interfere with the REALITY of the problem. At least, not to my observation. And these sort of ideological dogmas are rarely defined except on an 'us vs them' partisanship.
lol.....the only 'faith' or 'religion' i see on this forum is from the alarmist crowd. you people sure took a leap of faith with this boondoggle.

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#37058 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>

I believe in limited government, as well. I don't want the government telling me who I can marry, what I can smoke, what I can discuss with my doctor, and what I can do in the privacy of my own home. Conservatives want to control that.
well....i for one support your rights on all the above. why do you not support me for not wanting government telling me what fuel i can use?

i guess your rights are all that matter....to hell with other people, huh?
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#37059 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they accuse liberals of desiring a nanny state while turning a blind eye to all the things they feel they need to control.
It is more that conservatives are VERY conformist and tend to weight opinions based on the income level of the speaker. They also are very social and tend to reinforce their own 'viewpoints' over and above independent thought. i.e. if you want an opinion, we'll give it to you. A combination of elitists, conformists, sycophants and low income 'wannabee's that blame themselves for their current income deficit. i.e. that believe the propaganda that their condition is their own fault and if they just learned to be right wingers, they would get rich. Aka the 'american dream' or maybe delusion.

Thus the conflict with those who actually have independent thought and action open to them. Conservatives generally find any 'freedom' they don't like to be an intrusion into the 'perfect world' of their ideology. And so reject it as 'nanny state' interference with their 'right' to have everything the way they want. That was sarcasm, by the way.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#37060 Jul 16, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Except as a statement of the Tea Party's muddled libertarian ideology, I can't see the House version of the Farm Bill amounting to much. It will never get through the Democrat controlled Senate. Even if it did President Obama would veto it.
I can't find a better example of the Tea Party's deadlock strategy, however. They are too few to really enact their legislative agenda, but there are enough of them and they understand the political process well enough to monkeywrench the machinery of government. They also understand the thinking or the people at home who elect them enough to stay in office. Many of those voters are too ignorant (if not outright stupid) to recognize what their own self interests are. That is especially true when it comes to their economic interests.
Public opinion is being controlled in this country by a very small, very loud group of conservative "back-to-the-past-ers ". The average citizen is too apathetic and uneducated to analyze what these controllers are doing. As it has been since at least the Civil War, they use race and class to divide the population, whose classes and races have more in common than not. The strategy is "keep the races fighting each other, put on the farce that the poor can move into the middle class, and that the middle class can become wealthy, if they just work hard enough and conform".
litesong

Monroe, WA

#37061 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
People who hate government usually try to hide all the income they can.
Like your accurate observation! I would add...... they look for reasons to hate gov't, so they have more reasons to hide money.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#37062 Jul 16, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>well....i for one support your rights on all the above. why do you not support me for not wanting government telling me what fuel i can use?
i guess your rights are all that matter....to hell with other people, huh?
Let's keep it simple for you, and start with Wiki:
In economics, the tragedy of the commons is the depletion of a shared resource by individuals, acting independently and rationally according to each one's self-interest, despite their understanding that depleting the common resource is contrary to the group's long-term best interests. The concept is often cited in connection with sustainable development, meshing economic growth and environmental protection, as well as in the debate over global warming. "Commons" can include the atmosphere, oceans, rivers, fish stocks, national parks, advertising, and even parking meters. The tragedy of the commons has particular relevance in analyzing behavior in the fields of economics, evolutionary psychology, game theory, politics, taxation, and sociology. Some also see the "tragedy" as an example of emergent behavior, the outcome of individual interactions in a complex system.

So, you and your cohorts may think that it is perfectly fine to continue to pollute, but a growing number of us do indeed want to take that right away from you. It is for the common good.

Your right to scream "Fire!" in a crowded theatre has also been taken away from you. It is for the common good.

Your right to drive on the left side of the road in the USA has been taken away from you, too. It's for the common good.

Your right to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun has been taken away also. That, again, is for the common good.

If your numbers ever become large enough, file a class action lawsuit to have those rights restored.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#37063 Jul 16, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
lol.....the only 'faith' or 'religion' i see on this forum is from the alarmist crowd. you people sure took a leap of faith with this boondoggle.
And it's official, Justice Burton ruled it thus:

Judge rules activist's beliefs on climate change akin to religion ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/no...

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#37064 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's keep it simple for you, and start with Wiki:
In economics, the tragedy of the commons is the depletion of a shared resource by individuals, acting independently and rationally according to each one's self-interest, despite their understanding that depleting the common resource is contrary to the group's long-term best interests. The concept is often cited in connection with sustainable development, meshing economic growth and environmental protection, as well as in the debate over global warming. "Commons" can include the atmosphere, oceans, rivers, fish stocks, national parks, advertising, and even parking meters. The tragedy of the commons has particular relevance in analyzing behavior in the fields of economics, evolutionary psychology, game theory, politics, taxation, and sociology. Some also see the "tragedy" as an example of emergent behavior, the outcome of individual interactions in a complex system.
So, you and your cohorts may think that it is perfectly fine to continue to pollute, but a growing number of us do indeed want to take that right away from you. It is for the common good.
Your right to scream "Fire!" in a crowded theatre has also been taken away from you. It is for the common good.
Your right to drive on the left side of the road in the USA has been taken away from you, too. It's for the common good.
Your right to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun has been taken away also. That, again, is for the common good.
If your numbers ever become large enough, file a class action lawsuit to have those rights restored.
co2 is not pollution. Petroleum is in abundance. The human race relies on it and will continue to do so. Free markets will rule the day.....not big government hoaxes. No need to file a class action, son, because of how you think the world should be. Our rights to fossil fuel will continue, Keystone will likely be passed, and government makes more on a gallon of petrol than oil companies. They'll continue to do so. Don't blame me because you've been hoodwinked by a bunch of unsubstantiated scientific theoretical maybe's.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#37065 Jul 16, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you telling me transgender boys would be the only boys "persecuted" in the boy's locker room? What about the fat kids, the skinny kids, the nerds, the geeks, the boys who are late developing? You don't think every boy in a locker room has self-image issues? You don't think there are any other boys who have dreaded going into a locker room and being made fun of? It sucks, but it's life, kids can be cruel, but that doesn't make it right to protect just one type of self-image issue. I have a 12-year-old daughter and I know the last person she wants in a locker room with her while she is changing clothes is a boy. I don't care if the boy thinks he is a girl and this isn't about whether the boy wants to make out with my daughter. It's about my daughters age and stage of development and seeing a boy naked in a locker room is not something she is ready for. If you are arguing that this is appropriate then I proved my point that the middle has gone far to the left.
Well we don't know whether it hangs to the left or the right, with a trans-gender it might not hang at all. The point is this was a non issue typical right wing nonsense trying to make a big story out of nothing. What about the atheist that wants God taken out of the oath of allegiance , see if you would make the same noise about that.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#37066 Jul 16, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>co2 is not pollution. Petroleum is in abundance. The human race relies on it and will continue to do so. Free markets will rule the day.....not big government hoaxes. No need to file a class action, son, because of how you think the world should be. Our rights to fossil fuel will continue, Keystone will likely be passed, and government makes more on a gallon of petrol than oil companies. They'll continue to do so. Don't blame me because you've been hoodwinked by a bunch of unsubstantiated scientific theoretical maybe's.
It appears that further simplification is required for you to understand, or, alternatively, to show how stupid you are.

From Merriam-Webster: Pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change.

If petroleum is in abundance, why are ocean oil rigs drilling deeper than ever? Why are tar sands being squeezed out for a very poor grade of oil if it is so plentiful?

Free markets are turning to alternatives.

What government hoaxes? How many conspirators are there? Why has no one exposed it or turned anyone in? Why aren't the Republicunts going along with it? How did the government get plants and birds to participate? Who is removing the ice at the North Pole? Who is raising the average global air and water temperatures? How does the government make the oceans rise?

I was suggesting YOU file the class action suit, dummy.

I don't blame you for anything except being an ignorant and traitorous bumpkin.
Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

#37067 Jul 16, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Public opinion is being controlled in this country by a very small, very loud group of conservative "back-to-the-past-ers ". The average citizen is too apathetic and uneducated to analyze what these controllers are doing. As it has been since at least the Civil War, they use race and class to divide the population, whose classes and races have more in common than not. The strategy is "keep the races fighting each other, put on the farce that the poor can move into the middle class, and that the middle class can become wealthy, if they just work hard enough and conform".
So right you are.

This is from a letter that I received today from Senator Mitch McConnell in reply to a letter that I sent him some weeks ago stressing the need for the Republicans and Democrats to compromise and pass a Farm Bill:

"Kentucky farmers have always been defined by their hard work and determination.... Thanks to America's farming families, our nation has bee provided a safe and reliable food supply.... Kentucky farmers are a symbol of an honest way of life that breeds industry and personal responsibility...."

"As you know, the Agriculture Refore, Food, and Jobs Act of 2013 (S. 954, Farm Bill) was introduced by Senator Stabenow of Michigan. This measure passed the Senate on June 10, 2013."

While I recognize the need for a five-year Farm Bill, I opposed S. 954 because 80 percent of the money spent does not go to farmers. This $760 billion in non-farm spending will only move us closer to fiscal peril and national insolvency. Our country can no longer afford political gamesmanship where our real necessities are held hostage to unsustainable spending. Furthermore, I am for a Farm Bill that focuses on farmers. Kentucky farmers need a bill that provides certainty and much-needed reforms and regulatory relief."

"Our nation's unsustainable debt makes it more important than ever that Congress prioritize spending and ensure that every tax dollar is spent wisely."

Please note that never once in the letter did Mr. McConnell say that the $760 billion in non-farm spending was for food stamps. Never once did he say what his priorities were. His pre-canned form letter was was simply a page of baloney intended to tell a farmer what he thought that farmer wanted to hear.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#37068 Jul 16, 2013
A report that suggests 80% of the global fossil fuel needs to stay in the ground if we are to avoid disaster in next decade with global warming. Not sure if Obama will be influenced enough on this & others to be able to block Keystone.

http://ecowatch.com/2013/report-finds-80-perc...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#37069 Jul 16, 2013
NO to XL.

We will always have fossil fuels in the ground because we are shifting to another way of living without fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels are dirty.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#37070 Jul 16, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
A report that suggests 80% of the global fossil fuel needs to stay in the ground if we are to avoid disaster in next decade with global warming. Not sure if Obama will be influenced enough on this & others to be able to block Keystone.
http://ecowatch.com/2013/report-finds-80-perc...
Thanks for this post.

Obama is a dark horse at this point. Maybe he'll see that his healthcare depends on a less polluted world.

His legacy should be free of XL.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#37071 Jul 16, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
NO to XL.
We will always have fossil fuels in the ground because we are shifting to another way of living without fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels are dirty.
This case of Keystone is heavily...heavily emotional and political.

It is complicated. There are powerful interests and money pushing
from both sides.

What is insane to me is that in one accident, a very valuable and necessary aquifer could be trashed. It might never happen, BUT WHAT IF IT DID?

But what I have heard from both sides is that this dilbit will be refined on the coast and shipped overseas.

It will not improve the US supply.

It will not lower gas prices. The cost of extraction and shipping might even increase gas prices.

It creates jobs, they will argue, jobs the equivalent of Assistant Furnace Stoker in Hell.

The oil companies profit. End of story.
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#37072 Jul 16, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me where the middle stands on the issues of today.
==========

What you call the middle is just about gay marriage, foodstamps welfare, or even immigration, as both parties are much alike, since Bush gave that much foodstamps too during his time. The only thing that still remains as a difference is the abortion issue.

Do you know what a Neo-con is?
That is concerning with very uptight ideas about everything. Yet Obama is supposed to be a liberated person, but he is acting more than a radical as a Neo-con, doing more than the extremist Bush did, as in the old days, kings (as Neo-cons hypocrites ) made people slaves with no liberty and freedom but lots of death penalties. Obama does not care for his supporters who traditionally and historically are left out with no civil liberty but being nailed as scapegoats.
Yet Obama is exactly doing that like a tyrant dictator to Bradley Manning in the severe punishment (as this opposes to the thinking of progressive thinkers), and to the world as Bush did the same things by dragging down US image.
Obama has done more the obstructing privacy rights inside US too, while the world is just its own world democracy with more privacy liberty for not being snooped on much.

What makes you think Obama does not lie since facts show CIA was wrong about Snowden on airplane going to Bolivia, and ON Syria too on chemical weapons usage, just like Bush lying about Iraq. If CIA has no accurate data, how may drones they had done that killed the wrong people as Obama over-does all these?
Obama's way of attempt to get Snowden has a lot of Neocon support,yet majority is against it by both liberals and conservatives.

US image has disappeared since Bush time, as it is no longer as what you think as.
But it is doing against world direction in many areas, breaking International rules, laws and regulations, with its CIA and activities, proceeded by the Neocon extremist Obama when the world backlashes against Obama.

What you call the middle has no clarity according to what Obama doses so far.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37073 Jul 17, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well we don't know whether it hangs to the left or the right, with a trans-gender it might not hang at all. The point is this was a non issue typical right wing nonsense trying to make a big story out of nothing. What about the atheist that wants God taken out of the oath of allegiance , see if you would make the same noise about that.
What is it with you all and religion? I'm not religious. Having God in an oath really means nothing to me. It's just a word. But again, you have proven that the middle has moved far to the left when you are arguing that boys in girls' locker rooms or bathrooms is a non-issue. Ten years ago, if I had said that someday they will make laws like this, everyone would have said that's crazy talk.
kristy

Oviedo, FL

#37074 Jul 17, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
So right you are.
This is from a letter that I received today from Senator Mitch McConnell in reply to a letter that I sent him some weeks ago stressing the need for the Republicans and Democrats to compromise and pass a Farm Bill:
"Kentucky farmers have always been defined by their hard work and determination.... Thanks to America's farming families, our nation has bee provided a safe and reliable food supply.... Kentucky farmers are a symbol of an honest way of life that breeds industry and personal responsibility...."
"As you know, the Agriculture Refore, Food, and Jobs Act of 2013 (S. 954, Farm Bill) was introduced by Senator Stabenow of Michigan. This measure passed the Senate on June 10, 2013."
While I recognize the need for a five-year Farm Bill, I opposed S. 954 because 80 percent of the money spent does not go to farmers. This $760 billion in non-farm spending will only move us closer to fiscal peril and national insolvency. Our country can no longer afford political gamesmanship where our real necessities are held hostage to unsustainable spending. Furthermore, I am for a Farm Bill that focuses on farmers. Kentucky farmers need a bill that provides certainty and much-needed reforms and regulatory relief."
"Our nation's unsustainable debt makes it more important than ever that Congress prioritize spending and ensure that every tax dollar is spent wisely."
Please note that never once in the letter did Mr. McConnell say that the $760 billion in non-farm spending was for food stamps. Never once did he say what his priorities were. His pre-canned form letter was was simply a page of baloney intended to tell a farmer what he thought that farmer wanted to hear.
What do you want the compromise to contain?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#37075 Jul 17, 2013
The Tea Party aren't libertarians; we believe in s strong national defense. Our domestic agenda is similar; end intrusive regulation, stop wasteful government spending and stop higher taxes. We aren't for legalizing dope either.

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