Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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gcaveman1

Morton, MS

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#36948
Jul 12, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
No it was just a squirmish at the borders. The coal industry trying to defend the status quo and keep doing what they always have but we do have a new word for measures against global warming, "socialism"
I've heard of that! Isn't it bad?
gcaveman1

Morton, MS

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#36949
Jul 12, 2013
 
I'm feeling Soso tonight.

Since: Jul 11

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#36950
Jul 12, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard of that! Isn't it bad?
It's exactly how the right hijacked the science and turned it into a political argument. I saw a post on another forum saying McCain is a RINO. Republican in name only, hell they even branded him a socialist. lol No sense in being rational these days.
Retired Farmer

Mayfield, KY

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#36951
Jul 12, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
No it was just a squirmish at the borders. The coal industry trying to defend the status quo and keep doing what they always have but we do have a new word for measures against global warming, "socialism"
That's mild. Some folks around here call it a "communist".
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#36952
Jul 12, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
That's mild. Some folks around here call it a "communist".
There are always the fools and uneducated.

Basically the two are totally differnent.

Socialism means decision by fiat. i.e every decision of government is 'socialism', though most associate it with government support programs for the poor, sick and disadvantaged. But the contract to the military/industrial complex and just as much socialism. So are the 'subsidies' to corporations and specific industries.

Communism though is basically the idea that the citizen can government himself if the 'heirarchy' of power declines. That is, the worker who is best at managing a company will work as the manager without special priveledges or higher salary. Works only in the case of high altruism where survival is dependent on cooperation such as the inuit in the high arctic or some desert dwelling tribes. The ones who hoard, are lazy, etc are weeded out by sanctions from the tribe (usually exile).

It has nothing to do with the 'party oligarchy' that is commonly called communism these days.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

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#36953
Jul 13, 2013
 

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LessFactMoreHype wrote:
There are always the fools and uneducated.
Basically the two are totally differnent[sic].
priveledges[sic]
inuit[sic]
Priceless.
Retired Farmer

Madisonville, KY

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#36955
Jul 13, 2013
 

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LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
There are always the fools and uneducated.
Basically the two are totally differnent.
Socialism means decision by fiat. i.e every decision of government is 'socialism', though most associate it with government support programs for the poor, sick and disadvantaged. But the contract to the military/industrial complex and just as much socialism. So are the 'subsidies' to corporations and specific industries.
Communism though is basically the idea that the citizen can government himself if the 'heirarchy' of power declines. That is, the worker who is best at managing a company will work as the manager without special priveledges or higher salary. Works only in the case of high altruism where survival is dependent on cooperation such as the inuit in the high arctic or some desert dwelling tribes. The ones who hoard, are lazy, etc are weeded out by sanctions from the tribe (usually exile).
It has nothing to do with the 'party oligarchy' that is commonly called communism these days.
When thinking about the definitions of “socialism” and “communism” among people like Coal is King forget how socialists or communists define their ideology and the textbook definitions. They are irrelevant and do not apply. Here the majority of the people’s worldview is basically theological, that is to say religious in nature. Everything is seen in clearly defined, absolute terms: black and white, good vs. evil. The Cold War instilled the idea that socialism/communism and evil are one in the same thing.

In a theological worldview it is God’s elect (us) vs. the damned sinners (everybody that is not us). People with this kind of worldview tend to bundle unrelated things into a package with their religious beliefs. Their political beliefs and religious beliefs become so intertwined that it is impossible to separate one from the other. If you admit that there is any legitimacy to the other side’s position on any one issue in the package, even though you may totally agree with all the other issues in the package, rejecting that one item is the same thing as rejecting the whole set of beliefs. You are an apostate.

In this case, right wing libertarian economics and minimalist government political philosophy has been bundled with the Christian Right’s social conservatism. Environmentalism, because liberals tend to be more environmentalist-minded, is placed in the others’“evil” package. Coal is placed in the “good” category because it is endorsed and supported by the economic libertarians, who oppose any and all government regulations, environmental and otherwise. To these people, it literally becomes a matter of "If you oppose coal you are against capitalism and free enterprise." There is also the unrelated crossover, "If you are for solar power you are also for abortion."

People who hold liberal beliefs about economic and social issues contribute to and reinforce this “circle the wagons” mentality by bundling their own issues (support for abortion rights, gay marriage, environmentalism, support for social welfare, etc) into a package as well.

So, as I hope you can realize, in this context the terms “socialist” and “communist” do not have very much to do with either their self-definitions or the accepted textbook definitions of them. In this context "socialist" and "communist" (and a new post-911 addition "Muslim") are merely derogatory labels used to designate enemies.
gcaveman1

Morton, MS

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#36956
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Even Fox can't deny all the time...

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/11/fox-n ...

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#36957
Jul 13, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
Even Fox can't deny all the time...
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/11/fox-n ...
Heresy!
Retired Farmer

Madisonville, KY

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#36958
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Here is an example of how the hybrid Christian Right / economic Libertarian propaganda machine works:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/June/Evang...

People like to point to Fox News as the source of this stuff, but Fox is only a part of it. I know people who rely almost totally on CBN for their news and window on the world.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#36959
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
When thinking about the definitions of “socialism” and “communism” among people like Coal is King forget how socialists or communists define their ideology and the textbook definitions. Everything is seen in clearly defined, absolute terms: black and white, good vs. evil. The Cold War instilled the idea that socialism/communism and evil are one in the same thing.
Certainly they use labels and demagoguery as their cleverest arguments. False logic and irrational reason but typical. I find the best rebuttal to be..

“It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.” Terry Pratchett, Jingo
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#36960
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
In this context "socialist" and "communist" (and a new post-911 addition "Muslim") are merely derogatory labels used to designate enemies.
Thank you for posting on Topix. I find your posts to be uniformly reasoned and reasonable. More to what I would expect of a University professor than a 'retired farmer'. Your life must have been interesting.

Since: Jul 11

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#36961
Jul 13, 2013
 
gcaveman1 wrote:
Even Fox can't deny all the time...
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/11/fox-n ...
Maybe their site was hacked ,*grin*

Since: Jul 11

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#36963
Jul 13, 2013
 

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LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for posting on Topix. I find your posts to be uniformly reasoned and reasonable. More to what I would expect of a University professor than a 'retired farmer'. Your life must have been interesting.
Yes I agree, we need more retired farmers making those insightful posts. It's a pity that more Americans don't get to make the same points especially on media organisations such as Fox. Have you ever noticed when they have a token liberal guest on, there are 4 others on the panel talking them down. lol They are lucky to say "Hello"
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#36964
Jul 13, 2013
 
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
When thinking about the definitions of “socialism” and “communism” among people like Coal is King forget how socialists or communists define their ideology and the textbook definitions. They are irrelevant and do not apply. Here the majority of the people’s worldview is basically theological, that is to say religious in nature. Everything is seen in clearly defined, absolute terms: black and white, good vs. evil. The Cold War instilled the idea that socialism/communism and evil are one in the same thing.
In a theological worldview it is God’s elect (us) vs. the damned sinners (everybody that is not us). People with this kind of worldview tend to bundle unrelated things into a package with their religious beliefs. Their political beliefs and religious beliefs become so intertwined that it is impossible to separate one from the other. If you admit that there is any legitimacy to the other side’s position on any one issue in the package, even though you may totally agree with all the other issues in the package, rejecting that one item is the same thing as rejecting the whole set of beliefs. You are an apostate.
In this case, right wing libertarian economics and minimalist government political philosophy has been bundled with the Christian Right’s social conservatism. Environmentalism, because liberals tend to be more environmentalist-minded, is placed in the others’“evil” package. Coal is placed in the “good” category because it is endorsed and supported by the economic libertarians, who oppose any and all government regulations, environmental and otherwise. To these people, it literally becomes a matter of "If you oppose coal you are against capitalism and free enterprise." There is also the unrelated crossover, "If you are for solar power you are also for abortion."
People who hold liberal beliefs about economic and social issues contribute to and reinforce this “circle the wagons” mentality by bundling their own issues (support for abortion rights, gay marriage, environmentalism, support for social welfare, etc) into a package as well.
So, as I hope you can realize, in this context the terms “socialist” and “communist” do not have very much to do with either their self-definitions or the accepted textbook definitions of them. In this context "socialist" and "communist" (and a new post-911 addition "Muslim") are merely derogatory labels used to designate enemies.
Feel free to post your stuff.

Your name is stirring, stunning to some. I'm used to retired farmers like you.. LOL.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#36965
Jul 13, 2013
 
gcaveman1 wrote:
I'm feeling Soso tonight.
Hope it worked for you .. LOL.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#36966
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
When thinking about the definitions of “socialism” and “communism” among people like Coal is King forget how socialists or communists define their ideology and the textbook definitions. They are irrelevant and do not apply. Here the majority of the people’s worldview is basically theological, that is to say religious in nature. Everything is seen in clearly defined, absolute terms: black and white, good vs. evil. The Cold War instilled the idea that socialism/communism and evil are one in the same thing.
In a theological worldview it is God’s elect (us) vs. the damned sinners (everybody that is not us). People with this kind of worldview tend to bundle unrelated things into a package with their religious beliefs. Their political beliefs and religious beliefs become so intertwined that it is impossible to separate one from the other. If you admit that there is any legitimacy to the other side’s position on any one issue in the package, even though you may totally agree with all the other issues in the package, rejecting that one item is the same thing as rejecting the whole set of beliefs. You are an apostate.
In this case, right wing libertarian economics and minimalist government political philosophy has been bundled with the Christian Right’s social conservatism. Environmentalism, because liberals tend to be more environmentalist-minded, is placed in the others’“evil” package. Coal is placed in the “good” category because it is endorsed and supported by the economic libertarians, who oppose any and all government regulations, environmental and otherwise. To these people, it literally becomes a matter of "If you oppose coal you are against capitalism and free enterprise." There is also the unrelated crossover, "If you are for solar power you are also for abortion."
People who hold liberal beliefs about economic and social issues contribute to and reinforce this “circle the wagons” mentality by bundling their own issues (support for abortion rights, gay marriage, environmentalism, support for social welfare, etc) into a package as well.
So, as I hope you can realize, in this context the terms “socialist” and “communist” do not have very much to do with either their self-definitions or the accepted textbook definitions of them. In this context "socialist" and "communist" (and a new post-911 addition "Muslim") are merely derogatory labels used to designate enemies.
Good post. My take is that the Republicans had to buy the religious right's votes by incorporating their beliefs into their platform. The RR has yet to understand that they are being used by the Republicans. However, it is beginning to infringe upon the ability of the Republicans to find a moderate stance and hence causing them to lose stature. They are so tied to the RR that they cannot break free and have been defined by them. Either they will move to a mainstream platform or they will become marginalized.
JKX

Lehighton, PA

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#36967
Jul 13, 2013
 

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Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post. My take is that the Republicans had to buy the religious right's votes by incorporating their beliefs into their platform. The RR has yet to understand that they are being used by the Republicans. However, it is beginning to infringe upon the ability of the Republicans to find a moderate stance and hence causing them to lose stature. They are so tied to the RR that they cannot break free and have been defined by them. Either they will move to a mainstream platform or they will become marginalized.
Neither socialism or communism are Constitutional.

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

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#36968
Jul 13, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
I'm feeling Soso tonight.
because youre to afraid to answer a simple direct question. guess your feelings go hand in hand with your hypocrisy, huh?

Since: Jul 11

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#36969
Jul 13, 2013
 

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JKX wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither socialism or communism are Constitutional.
Well there you go! Neither is Religion. God has no time for cross burners and extremism needs to find another symbol to hide behind. Christian is not one of them.

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