Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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#36646
Jun 23, 2013
 
What I can't understand how did the global warming argument get tied into left and right politics. I have seen some posters from the right in politics who agree with the man made warming concept but get attacked from the right for even mentioning it.
It became tied to economics rather than a real crisis and was left ignored following the GFC in 2008. Once China steps it's toe in the water the rest of the world will be playing catch up and it should never had happened that way. Better to lead from the front than play catch up later. That will have the best economic benefit.
The whole point that is lost on the denier crowd is alternative energy could be the break through new gold mine in the backyard. Those who lead will reap the most benefit.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#36647
Jun 23, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
What I can't understand how did the global warming argument get tied into left and right politics. I have seen some posters from the right in politics who agree with the man made warming concept but get attacked from the right for even mentioning it.
It became tied to economics rather than a real crisis and was left ignored following the GFC in 2008. Once China steps it's toe in the water the rest of the world will be playing catch up and it should never had happened that way. Better to lead from the front than play catch up later. That will have the best economic benefit.
The whole point that is lost on the denier crowd is alternative energy could be the break through new gold mine in the backyard. Those who lead will reap the most benefit.
I have often wondered how this happened. The whole environmental movement has polarized along political lines. I suppose that since the politics were essentially the same for both parties, it was necessary to invent some divisive movement. Since the Republican party has nothing progressive to offer, it must find fault with the opposition. If you have noticed the campaigning in the past couple of decades by the Republicans has been almost all hot button and negative. They have successfully melded this into a platform of division and even hate that has worked for them for a time. To accomplish this, they found they had to demonize, or at least discredit, scientific findings and in turn promote prejudices and radical religious dogma.

The House of Representatives is largely dysfunctional because of the position of the extremist conservative members. The populous is very dissatisfied with what is happening as seen is the approval ratings and we will see a movement away from the extremist.(My opinion) As this disintegrates, we will see a move away from denying science and an embracing of alternate energy forms. The only reason they have been able to take things this far is the fact that the public is largely ignorant of how science works, but as the public becomes more informed and educated in the scientific methodology, it will become more supportive of the findings.

Retired Farmer

Hopkinsville, KY

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#36648
Jun 23, 2013
 
OzRitz wrote:
What I can't understand how did the global warming argument get tied into left and right politics. I have seen some posters from the right in politics who agree with the man made warming concept but get attacked from the right for even mentioning it.
It is a monstrosity born of the inter-species marriage between the Libertarians and the Christian Right. The Libertarians compromiesd (at least temporarily) their ideas about individual liberty and adopted the Christian Right's "moral" issues in return for the Christian Right adopting Libertarians' Social Darwinist economic philospohy. Issues dear to each side were bundled into a package. Wealthy Libertarians whose fortunes are based in the coal and oil industries stuffed their opposition to any effort to move away from coal and oil into the bargain. It then became part of the Christian Right's religious obligation to uphold those ideas. Because the package is endowed with a religious quality, rejecting any part of the package is equated with rejecting all of it.

The Democrats did the same thing, but with their package containing the antithesis of what is in the Libertarian - Christian Right Republican package. Their package also does not have the religious element that the Republican package does, so individuals have a lot more freedom to pick and choose on issues; for this, against that.
Kyle

Columbia City, IN

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#36649
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>As they said in the "climate gate" email... will do whatever it takes to prevent such a paper from being published.
BIG LIE. That has been debunked a million times, yet denier scum will repeat it forever. Thus, you're called DENIERS; the truth has no meaning for you.
Kyle

Columbia City, IN

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#36650
Jun 23, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
What I can't understand how did the global warming argument get tied into left and right politics. I have seen some posters from the right in politics who agree with the man made warming concept but get attacked from the right for even mentioning it.
It's not in much of the world. The US is nearly unique in the degree of anti-reality adopted by a major party. I speak as a US citizen - and as one whose conservatism has been denied because I don't reject such realities as climate science, biological evolution, etc.

US politics is pretty f__ked up right now. If the R's don't pull their collective heads out, we could be in for a generation of one party government.
Kyle

Columbia City, IN

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#36651
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a monstrosity born of the inter-species marriage between the Libertarians and the Christian Right. The Libertarians compromiesd (at least temporarily) their ideas about individual liberty and adopted the Christian Right's "moral" issues in return for the Christian Right adopting Libertarians' Social Darwinist economic philospohy. Issues dear to each side were bundled into a package. Wealthy Libertarians whose fortunes are based in the coal and oil industries stuffed their opposition to any effort to move away from coal and oil into the bargain. It then became part of the Christian Right's religious obligation to uphold those ideas. Because the package is endowed with a religious quality, rejecting any part of the package is equated with rejecting all of it.
The Democrats did the same thing, but with their package containing the antithesis of what is in the Libertarian - Christian Right Republican package. Their package also does not have the religious element that the Republican package does, so individuals have a lot more freedom to pick and choose on issues; for this, against that.
Quite profound. Too bad that those who most need to understand it are least likely to even acknowledge it.
No Warming

Waverly, OH

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#36653
Jun 24, 2013
 

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So since NASA and NOAA records indicate there's been No Warming for 16 years I would need the Pope to confirm that. I'd bring the issue up with the Monsignor except he doesn't have much of a sense of humor, get out of your box and get real folks.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#36654
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a monstrosity born of the inter-species marriage between the Libertarians and the Christian Right. The Libertarians compromiesd (at least temporarily) their ideas about individual liberty and adopted the Christian Right's "moral" issues in return for the Christian Right adopting Libertarians' Social Darwinist economic philospohy. Issues dear to each side were bundled into a package. Wealthy Libertarians whose fortunes are based in the coal and oil industries stuffed their opposition to any effort to move away from coal and oil into the bargain. It then became part of the Christian Right's religious obligation to uphold those ideas. Because the package is endowed with a religious quality, rejecting any part of the package is equated with rejecting all of it.
The Democrats did the same thing, but with their package containing the antithesis of what is in the Libertarian - Christian Right Republican package. Their package also does not have the religious element that the Republican package does, so individuals have a lot more freedom to pick and choose on issues; for this, against that.
So, you are saying that the Republicans adopted the extremist positions of the Libertarians. A move away from their historic moderate position of States Rights and individual choice. I am a lifelong Republican who has abandoned the Party because of their fanatical extremism.(Anyone who is not an extremist is labeled a liberal.)----I am proud to be a liberal by this definition.

I think the Republican Party was not able to adapt to the rapid changes the country is going through and was marginalized after Reagan. Reagan was simply an attempt to grasp at the past. When this failed, the Party was in disarray. To regain support, the Party had to search for new votes. They found them in the religious right and the prejudices and fear of the Libertarians. This along with a concerted effort to demonize the government, which was progressive and not well understood by many, the old fears of Communism and Socialism were brought into play. Also science, which supported many of the changes had to be bypassed. To do this, science had to be demonized or discredited to the extent that it was marginalized as a player in decisions.

Somehow this extremism has paralyzed the country to the extent that there cannot be a civil debate about global warming.

Living in Kansas, this is parallel to the extremist position of the Kansas BOA demanding that Creationism be taught in the science classroom. I have noted that the current Kansas BOA has rejected this extremist position and encourages both global warming and evolution studies in the classroom. Perhaps there is hope for the future.

The Republican Party will either shake off the Tea Parties disorganized extremism or cease to be a viable alternative. I believe it will by necessity move back towards the center and offer a viable choice between Parties.
Retired Farmer

Hopkinsville, KY

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#36655
Jun 24, 2013
 
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you are saying that the Republicans adopted the extremist positions of the Libertarians. A move away from their historic moderate position of States Rights and individual choice. I am a lifelong Republican who has abandoned the Party because of their fanatical extremism.(Anyone who is not an extremist is labeled a liberal.)----I am proud to be a liberal by this definition.
I think the Republican Party was not able to adapt to the rapid changes the country is going through and was marginalized after Reagan. Reagan was simply an attempt to grasp at the past. When this failed, the Party was in disarray. To regain support, the Party had to search for new votes. They found them in the religious right and the prejudices and fear of the Libertarians. This along with a concerted effort to demonize the government, which was progressive and not well understood by many, the old fears of Communism and Socialism were brought into play. Also science, which supported many of the changes had to be bypassed. To do this, science had to be demonized or discredited to the extent that it was marginalized as a player in decisions.
Somehow this extremism has paralyzed the country to the extent that there cannot be a civil debate about global warming.
Living in Kansas, this is parallel to the extremist position of the Kansas BOA demanding that Creationism be taught in the science classroom. I have noted that the current Kansas BOA has rejected this extremist position and encourages both global warming and evolution studies in the classroom. Perhaps there is hope for the future.
The Republican Party will either shake off the Tea Parties disorganized extremism or cease to be a viable alternative. I believe it will by necessity move back towards the center and offer a viable choice between Parties.
You have pretty well nailed what has happened to the Republican party. In short, it got hijacked by the Libertarian-Christian Right coalition.

I too was a Republican (one that believed in the ideals of Lincoln, Theodeore Roosevelt, and Eisenhower) for my entire adult life. Then, suddenly, I was actually told by a local county-level Republican party official, a Bible thumping religious bigot, that I was no longer welcome in the party because I supported repeal of Prohibition in the "dry" county where I lived. The same fellow is an ardent climate change denier, and pretty much classifies anyone who disagrees with him about it as some sort of anti-Christian, pagan nature worshipper.

I don't think the old Republican Party will or can shake off the Tea Party / Libertarian-Christian Right hijackers. It will, I think, become a regional party confined to the South and Plains/West Bible Belt -- if it survives at all. By the same token, the Democrats will probably become a European-style social democratic party.

I look for a new Center Party to emerge, one that is slightly right of center made up of disaffected former "RINO" center-right Republicans and old style conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats.

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

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#36656
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Of course nobody suggests regulating human metabolism; it's just that the same gas you want to regulate happens to be the gas we exhale. We'll just have to trust you that carbon dioxide regulation won't got too far. Like we trust the NSA and IRS...
Yes, if it wasn't for me, you might be prevented from exhaling every other day, Brainless. Remember that and be grateful...LOL

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

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#36657
Jun 24, 2013
 

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No Warming wrote:
So since NASA and NOAA records indicate there's been No Warming for 16 years ..EDITED....
When the post starts off so wrong, it's unlikely to get better...

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#36658
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
You have pretty well nailed what has happened to the Republican party. In short, it got hijacked by the Libertarian-Christian Right coalition.
I too was a Republican (one that believed in the ideals of Lincoln, Theodeore Roosevelt, and Eisenhower) for my entire adult life. Then, suddenly, I was actually told by a local county-level Republican party official, a Bible thumping religious bigot, that I was no longer welcome in the party because I supported repeal of Prohibition in the "dry" county where I lived. The same fellow is an ardent climate change denier, and pretty much classifies anyone who disagrees with him about it as some sort of anti-Christian, pagan nature worshipper.
I don't think the old Republican Party will or can shake off the Tea Party / Libertarian-Christian Right hijackers. It will, I think, become a regional party confined to the South and Plains/West Bible Belt -- if it survives at all. By the same token, the Democrats will probably become a European-style social democratic party.
I look for a new Center Party to emerge, one that is slightly right of center made up of disaffected former "RINO" center-right Republicans and old style conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats.
I am not so sure. With the amount of money it takes to gain a foothold, the third party idea is at best a hope. Even the Tea Party had to meld with an established Party to become a player.

The vested interests have control of the reins (or should that be reigns?). Until the populous begins to think for themselves instead of what their favorite media tells them what the "facts" are, the industrial-financial complex will control the government. I see that slowly changing, but wonder if it will be too late to overcome. The emerging influence of the non-white population may be able to break through the white male complex that has brought us to the point we are today.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#36659
Jun 24, 2013
 

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So CO2 turns out to be a red herring and not the global AGW Doomsday Device after all.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c273ab0-dbe4-...

“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

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#36660
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
So CO2 turns out to be a red herring and not the global AGW Doomsday Device after all.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c273ab0-dbe4-...
Don't think I'll sign up there to read more Denier gibberish, Teddy boy...sorry.:)
Kyle

Columbia City, IN

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#36661
Jun 24, 2013
 

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No Warming wrote:
So since NASA and NOAA records indicate there's been No Warming for 16 years I would need the Pope to confirm that. I'd bring the issue up with the Monsignor except he doesn't have much of a sense of humor, get out of your box and get real folks.
Big Lie! All of the 10 warmest years have been since 1998. It isn't mathematically possible for both that and your denialist talking point to both be true.
Kyle

Columbia City, IN

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#36662
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
You have pretty well nailed what has happened to the Republican party. In short, it got hijacked by the Libertarian-Christian Right coalition.
I too was a Republican (one that believed in the ideals of Lincoln, Theodeore Roosevelt, and Eisenhower) for my entire adult life.
Count me as another. I no longer consider myself a Republican. I didn't leave the party; the party left me when it left its senses.

Since: Jul 11

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#36663
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Well there is still hope if all you ex-Republicans especially those living in the south might convince some others to come back to the fold. Instead of following a path that leads to nowhere.
In my view I think the Tea party was the squeaky wheel in this quantum shift to the right. The ole saying about the squeaky wheel gets the most grease. Well they spoke the loudest and obtained influence they didn't deserve. Surely the majority of Americans cannot hold those views, because its a train wreck waiting to happen.
JBH

Delta, Canada

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#36664
Jun 24, 2013
 

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ALL YOU THINK IS THAT BIGGER COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA AND RUSSIA STANDING UP TO YOU ABOUT SNOWDEN.
There is too much radicalism out there. They say Clinton AND BUSH GAVE CHINA THE RADAR and weapon science technology and economy too, yet they never say they presidents are traitors but Snowden. You all know that Snowden has never built and won't be able to build China because he has no such aircraft blueprints.
It comes to this time of absurdity as Clinton and Bush had built up China already to talk about Snowdon now and relationship .
AS THE RADICALISM AND EXTREMISM POINT OUT, THE justice is being questioned in the US, that some people are wrongly convicted, in addition to producing situations of fabricAting AND presenting false or no evidences, to impose against justice. The example is that, when there is one Bush who had no evidence but lied about WMD-Iraq, indicates there are some such people out there BY USING FALSEHOOD OF MAKING UP STORIES.
IF they ARE the POLICEMEN AND FBI AND CIA and Judges , they should be able to do their jobs AS those PROFESSIONS WITH NO ERRORS. But ultimately it is not, since the radicalism of unstable minds has victimized and harmed a lot of innocent and good people.
YOu say y0u want to target terrorists and traitors while they do the same to you, but you should know your profession of targeting the accuracy--i.e., if it is a man you want, you don't go (Maybe to women's washrooms) to get women as that is far from precision accuracy but demonstrates the extreme craze of queer views which are peculiarly ridiculous.
As people are not hired in these professions to do for you, you have done a lot of wrong by making damages to the public and harmful effects to lots of innocents when you do so.
There are all rationalization reasons that too many doubts exist of what they are doing out there regarding facts and truth and justice.
Because they want those who they think they are their traitors, terrorists or criminals, there is every single reason NOT to detain and hinder anyone to obstruct rights of freedom liberty of world public and truth of the justice, including the matters of extradition, since THERE ARE wrongs of what they say. How on earth by spying on world people is needed to make security and target traitors, while world people have nothing to do with anything, by those acting unlawfulness as outlaw(s) in the first place?
There are all reasons that the people of world have different beliefs and differences in views based on facts, but not CORRUPTION AND WHAT is CALLED AS A RELATIONSHIP,for THE truth aspects of human race should be ascertained in the grace of righteousness.
They can think that only bigger countries like China they had built up can sponsor Snowden's asylum, or stand up to it, yet they never ask why they had to build it up by Clinton and Bush to face with it.
They say Russia is a better stronger country that can handle Snowden case because Russia needs a relationship, but they are just too naive, not to know the world people do not think alike.
They say everything is too good out there , but just ask themselves how many have been damaged and harmed and burnt by those corruption people and bad liars, extremists, and radical, fake fabricators and deceits?
How do you know there are no other better and vital societies, in which people are doing much better in terms of justice and freedom righteous rights of well-deserved justice and economics than you, when these societies have less extremists?
You may also think China and Russia are against you in Snowden story, but you never know there are many countrymen (of different countries) with much stronger sentiments and stands disapproving you elsewhere around the globe than China and Russia.
BUT, HOW DO YOU KNOW the WORLD AFTER ALL, when the world would SIMPLY reject the way of your doing things with radicalism by violating the justice truth by calling extradition, which is regarded as unaccepted?
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#36665
Jun 24, 2013
 

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JBH wrote:
ALL YOU THINK IS THAT BIGGER COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA AND RUSSIA STANDING UP TO YOU ABOUT SNOWDEN.
Oddly, the US was built on the idea that the government should be scared of the public (i.e Snowden) while PRISM is designed to make the public fear the government.

Support whistle blowers when they expose totalitarian control freaks.
Coal is King

Hopkinsville, KY

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#36666
Jun 25, 2013
 

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From the Pikeville, KY, Topix Forum this morning:

“Today, Tuesday the 25th 2013 marks the end of the coal industry in the United States. He plans to sidestep congress and by executive order finish off the coal industry he helped cripple. The executive orders to the EPA will ensure all coal fired plants will not meet emissions standards.

Mark this day on your calendar the final nails will be driven in the coal industry's coffin. He just killed every coal related job in Southern Appalachia. Better figure how you are going to raise your kids and pay a power bill that will triple or quadruple if you live in Ky. or W.Va.

If anyone is old enough to remember the late 50's and 60's in Eastern Ky. you will remember the gut wrenching poverty of the area. The times when there were no jobs but low wage coal mining and everyone was moving north to seek employment and a better life. When the coal boom ended in the early 80's and coal fell to below $20 a ton we experienced another great migration to the south for those that sought work and a better life for their kids.

I would say that we will see another great exodus from the coal fields as mines close and the coal industry collapses but now there is nowhere to go. The national economy and job market is crippled and the higher cost of energy will make it worse, especially in the southern states that depend on coal for power generation.

From the time when Robert Kennedy filmed and showed the nation the abject poverty the people of Southern Appalachia were living in to the time of Lyndon Johnsons Great Society Program and his War On Poverty millions were poured into this region to better the life of Eastern Kentuckians. The ARC and a hos of other programs to cut roads into the region and bring us up to par with the rest of the country. We just took a giant step backwards today! From the time of John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson a whole generations work to save this region has just been destroyed by the stroke of a dictator's pen. Ironic, a democratic president saved this region and a so called democratic president just destroyed it.

Cap and trade, cap industrial growth and trade what few jobs we have left to communist China! Change we can believe in! I believe this heartless bastard just changed life in Appalachia for the worse! East Kentucky Hard times, get used to it. Get used to just scrapping by the best way you can and hope a few older people are left around to show you how to do it.”

What do you envirofreaks have to say to the many hundreds of thousands of coal miners are going to lose their jobs because of this?

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