Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35955 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
The other point that is also missed by the deniers is food bowl production under threat in mass population areas like Egypt.
This is just one example of what is going on in the middle east and this an article that is 3 yrs old.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/01/28/...
When you have mass population base starved of a resource then there are only two things that can happen. Mass migration or War neither of which can give any comfort to a denier.
The Nile Delta salting up or going under the Mediterranean or the Nile River running dry would not affect the "warming is good" crowd much. When you get right down to it, they don't care what happens to people in Egypt, or Bangladesh, or sub-Saharan Africa. With the level of Islamophobia in this country some people think their demise would be a good thing. Religious evangelicals who believe the hookum that "we are living in the End Times" would just chalk it up as a prelude to the Tribulations. There is one thing that might - and I say might, because they could well say that it was part of the Tribulations, too - make them change their minds.

The Jordan River is a kind of "canary in the coal mine" for global warming. The Jordan is a tiny little river that wouldn't even be a good sized creek in the U.S.A. or Russia. It exists only because Mt. Hermon is barely tall enough to have snow cover the year round. That snow cap has been getting smaller and smaller every summer for the last 20 years. One hot August not too far in the future the snow on Mt. Hermon is going to melt completely. When that happens the Jordan River will run dry. As hung up on the security of Israel that American evangelicals are, that might prompt them to reconsider the impact of doubling the atmosphere's CO2. But before that happens, we are quite likely to see a big Middle East war because Israel will find some pretext (if indeed they bother to justify it with a pretext) to invade Syria and gain access to the Euphrates.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#35956 May 19, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
“Climate change has moved into a new and highly dangerous phase and is now the most urgent issue confronting the world,” said Ian Dunlop, member of the Club of Rome and Deputy Convener for the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil.
“Climate change has moved into a new and highly dangerous phase and is now the most urgent issue confronting the world,” said Ian Dunlop, member of the Club of Rome and Deputy Convener for the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil.

"urgent phase" and "dangerous phase" and "has moved into a phase"

ARE NOT

LIKE "evetentual" "imminent" "inevitable" "unavoidable" "impending"

Since the scientists have said for 28 years that their climate crisis is NOT as real and eventual as they say comet hits are, what is it then?
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35957 May 19, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
The Nile Delta salting up or going under the Mediterranean or the Nile River running dry would not affect the "warming is good" crowd much. When you get right down to it, they don't care what happens to people in Egypt, or Bangladesh, or sub-Saharan Africa. With the level of Islamophobia in this country some people think their demise would be a good thing. Religious evangelicals who believe the hookum that "we are living in the End Times" would just chalk it up as a prelude to the Tribulations. There is one thing that might - and I say might, because they could well say that it was part of the Tribulations, too - make them change their minds.
The Jordan River is a kind of "canary in the coal mine" for global warming. The Jordan is a tiny little river that wouldn't even be a good sized creek in the U.S.A. or Russia. It exists only because Mt. Hermon is barely tall enough to have snow cover the year round. That snow cap has been getting smaller and smaller every summer for the last 20 years. One hot August not too far in the future the snow on Mt. Hermon is going to melt completely. When that happens the Jordan River will run dry. As hung up on the security of Israel that American evangelicals are, that might prompt them to reconsider the impact of doubling the atmosphere's CO2. But before that happens, we are quite likely to see a big Middle East war because Israel will find some pretext (if indeed they bother to justify it with a pretext) to invade Syria and gain access to the Euphrates.
In 1988 The Prophetic James Hansen convInced many in congress of the dire threat from GHG's and the need to take action to save humanity from a global crisis.The number of people who understood the importance of His message grew at a steady pace. His words reached the Masses by the release of the reformational film by Al Gore titled "An Inconvenient Truth". Soon devout believers could be counted by the millions throughout the world.
Joining Dr. Hansen and V.P. Gore were Profs. Mann, and Jones along with numerous men of letters.
With endorsemenrs from the IPCC and many other organizations Climate Science has now reached a point where it is no longer acceptable to question the Truths of CAGW because the 'science is settled'.
At what point does the message of these Wise Men become an Evangelical belief system akin to religion?
I submit it occurs when their belief becomes grounded more in faith and certitude than in skepticism.
Perhaps people of reason would do well to reserve "Faith" for their apostles and "Skepticism" for their scientists.
-koolaid
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35958 May 19, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
In 1988 The Prophetic James Hansen convInced many in congress of the dire threat from GHG's and the need to take action to save humanity from a global crisis.The number of people who understood the importance of His message grew at a steady pace. His words reached the Masses by the release of the reformational film by Al Gore titled "An Inconvenient Truth". Soon devout believers could be counted by the millions throughout the world.
Joining Dr. Hansen and V.P. Gore were Profs. Mann, and Jones along with numerous men of letters.
With endorsemenrs from the IPCC and many other organizations Climate Science has now reached a point where it is no longer acceptable to question the Truths of CAGW because the 'science is settled'.
At what point does the message of these Wise Men become an Evangelical belief system akin to religion?
I submit it occurs when their belief becomes grounded more in faith and certitude than in skepticism.
Perhaps people of reason would do well to reserve "Faith" for their apostles and "Skepticism" for their scientists.
-koolaid
Smile. You are disgusting.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35959 May 19, 2013
Detroit's new landmark, courtesy of the Koch brothers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/business/en...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35960 May 19, 2013
mememine69 wrote:
<quoted text>
“Climate change has moved into a new and highly dangerous phase and is now the most urgent issue confronting the world,” said Ian Dunlop, member of the Club of Rome and Deputy Convener for the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil.
"urgent phase" and "dangerous phase" and "has moved into a phase"
ARE NOT
LIKE "evetentual" "imminent" "inevitable" "unavoidable" "impending"
Since the scientists have said for 28 years that their climate crisis is NOT as real and eventual as they say comet hits are, what is it then?
SO what do you say abou: A Black Mound of Canadian Oil Waste Is Rising Over Detroit?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/business/en...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35961 May 19, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
Detroit's new landmark, courtesy of the Koch brothers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/business/en...
Let's see what mmemme will post about it.

This poster belongs to b_gone's ilk.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35962 May 19, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya know, caveman, the folks that think a good big dose of global warming will be a good thing haven't really thought it out.
Let's just suppose the Gulf Stream and other ocean currents shift like scientists have found evidence that they did at the end of the last Ice Age. Nobody knows what that might do to the weather in the USA. What if it turns the Great Plains into the Great American Desert? But it might get wetter, too.
Let's just suppose that all the ice melts. It wouldn't be "Water World" because there's not enough water locked up in ice to flood the whole world. Maximum sea rise would be something like 225 feet. Heck, that wouldn't even flood your place in Mississippi. You're at 423 feet elevation. Of course the lower Mississippi Valley, some of our most fertile cropland, would become the Mississippi Inlet of the Gulf. Your little town might be a seaport in 2113.
Then there's the matter of all those folks in the Middle East and Asia that will be forced to migrate northward by the combination of sea rise and drought.
Farmer, there's so much they haven't thought out. Could fill volumes.

If we accept the general consensus? on precipitation, that dry places will get drier and wet places will get wetter, that alone encompasses HUGE changes. Welcome back, Dust Bowl, and goodbye AZ, NM, and southern Cal.

I've also tried to inform the non-agriculturists here that the timing of precipitation is just as important as the amount. We love our Spring rains and we need our Spring rains, but not so much that seeds drown or rot. Corn and tomatoes are particularly susceptible to the timing for their fruiting stages.

We already have a problem with migration (immigration) from the south; what do they think the result will be if Mexico and Central America dry out further?

Two temporary events have already caused considerable migration/relocation in Mississippi and Louisiana, mainly among minorities. Thousands decided not to risk hurricanes any more after Katrina, and moved northward to cities like Laurel and Hattiesburg, and Shreveport and Baton Rouge. There was a repeat of this after the BP disaster hit the fishing and oystering industries.

Deniers want everything to be simple, black and white. Life just ain't that way.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#35963 May 19, 2013
What’s as bad as a climate crisis? A comet hit!
We have to go by the word of the scientists who say their climate crisis is not as real as they say comet hits are so it's a fact; climate change is real but any crisis associated with it isn't as real as an eventual comet hit is.
Science has spoken and so it shall be; Climate Change Crisis is not as real as a comet hit is so what is it?

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#35964 May 19, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>SO what do you say abou: A Black Mound of Canadian Oil Waste Is Rising Over Detroit?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/business/en...
So throw your purse and have a fit then.
Oil is natural.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35965 May 19, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
The Nile Delta salting up or going under the Mediterranean or the Nile River running dry would not affect the "warming is good" crowd much. When you get right down to it, they don't care what happens to people in Egypt, or Bangladesh, or sub-Saharan Africa. With the level of Islamophobia in this country some people think their demise would be a good thing. Religious evangelicals who believe the hookum that "we are living in the End Times" would just chalk it up as a prelude to the Tribulations. There is one thing that might - and I say might, because they could well say that it was part of the Tribulations, too - make them change their minds.
The Jordan River is a kind of "canary in the coal mine" for global warming. The Jordan is a tiny little river that wouldn't even be a good sized creek in the U.S.A. or Russia. It exists only because Mt. Hermon is barely tall enough to have snow cover the year round. That snow cap has been getting smaller and smaller every summer for the last 20 years. One hot August not too far in the future the snow on Mt. Hermon is going to melt completely. When that happens the Jordan River will run dry. As hung up on the security of Israel that American evangelicals are, that might prompt them to reconsider the impact of doubling the atmosphere's CO2. But before that happens, we are quite likely to see a big Middle East war because Israel will find some pretext (if indeed they bother to justify it with a pretext) to invade Syria and gain access to the Euphrates.
No they won't worry about it unless someone is knocking on your front door looking for food & shelter. Only then it becomes a problem to deal with. As opposed to trying to prevent that in the first place.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35966 May 19, 2013
mememine69 wrote:
<quoted text>So throw your purse and have a fit then.
Oil is natural.
So is Arsenic and Cyanide, we just don't need either anywhere near our water supply or food chain.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35967 May 19, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
..........
Deniers want everything to be simple, black and white. Life just ain't that way.
This is what i find ironic, deniers are mostly conservatives by nature. The arch enemy to conservatives is communism which they quite happily tie in with Liberalism but its nothing like it.
The BIG fear for them is controlled thought or government taking away your so called "freedoms"
Here is the irony, a Liberal can think & problem solve with no rules. Yet a conservative thinks with so many rules attached they can end up stuck in mud. Who is really Free out of the two ?
A conservative is chained to rules, a Liberal is free to wonder.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35968 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
No they won't worry about it unless someone is knocking on your front door looking for food & shelter. Only then it becomes a problem to deal with. As opposed to trying to prevent that in the first place.
I don't think it would bother some of them then. The ones who remain well enough off to live in a secure gated community wouldn't care if the great mass of people lived like the poor in the movie "Soylent Green" as long as the society remained viable enough that the elite few could still make a profit off them. The others, the ones that identify with the elite and parrot their propaganda won't have a door for the beggers to knock on. They'll be among the beggers.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#35969 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what i find ironic, deniers are mostly conservatives by nature.
And this is what I find ironic about your post - all generalities are fallacious.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35970 May 19, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is what I find ironic about your post - all generalities are fallacious.
We have to box by nature it doesn't mean everything described is exactly the same way but if it is a better than 70-80% match then I would regard it as the best way to box a group or argument.
It's how we elect our governments!

Like do all conservatives believe its a woman's choice for an abortion most likely 70% would disagree with that idea so I would hold that as a conservative position. Thats not a fallacy otherwise the laws would be changed country wide.

Climate change is just another one of those things conservatives can't get their head around so the best way to deal with is to deny. That was the observation I made.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35971 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
We have to box by nature it doesn't mean everything described is exactly the same way but if it is a better than 70-80% match then I would regard it as the best way to box a group or argument.
It's how we elect our governments!
Like do all conservatives believe its a woman's choice for an abortion most likely 70% would disagree with that idea so I would hold that as a conservative position. Thats not a fallacy otherwise the laws would be changed country wide.
Interesting perspective. Unfortunately, I suspect that you rank in the majority with that way of thinking.

I say "unfortunately" because this allows, right or wrong, the self describer to define what conservative means.
What does, for example, a self proclaimed conservative saying 'climate change is a fact' or 'marriage is a HUMAN RIGHT that even gay humans are to be entitled' make him? A liar or an individual with principled beliefs that do not agree with all other conservatives?

This line of quire is not consistent with this thread so I will leave it at that.

-koolaid
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35972 May 19, 2013
mememine69 wrote:
<quoted text>So throw your purse and have a fit then.
Oil is natural.
Hey, Jane, your purse landed in the South. I see now, you lie through and through about everything.

You don't care about Detroit, do you? Where do you really live, Jane?

Do you live in the Love Canal neighborhood?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35973 May 19, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is what I find ironic about your post - all generalities are fallacious.
I find a repeat post by a troll.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35974 May 19, 2013
koolaid is drinking again.

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