Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

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Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35935 May 18, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
What you imply about scaring ppl is that it is being alarmist because its based on a phantom threat....
As I said in previous posts you deniers put in your head this is a problem.....
...to avoid disaster. Not only that expect others to take the same risks you are.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/...
A couple of points:

1st: Climate Change IS A FACT!!!
2nd: Global Warming IS A FACT (depending on one's time frame)!!!
3rd: Catastrophic Climate Change Caused By Man is a Scientific HYPOTHESIS!!!
4th: The definition of 'FACT' is not the same as the definition of 'HYPOTHESIS'!!!

So... I believe the Climate changes and I agree with you who Believe in GW.

Now comes the part where my position diverges from 'The Faithful'...

I suggest that from 1850 through 1988 was not the PERFECT CLIMATE for Life on Earth.

I also suggest that Global Warming (Anthropological or otherwise) is A GOOD THING!!!
Therefore, I suggest that my position on these issues is one of a Heretic rather than a denier.
I am quite willing to defend these points with anyone who wishes to employ logic, reason, and science to support their position. Of course, if you lack the intelligence and an education simply reply with insults and bad grammar.

Look forward to your reply
-koolaid

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35936 May 18, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pretty sure that there were Romans 2000 years ago who argued that "there's no proof that people are being poisoned by the lead water pipes" right up until lead poisoning killed them.
Yeah and now we like to call ourselves highly evolved with all the technology & knowledge at our disposal yet plainly this particular message is one that some have chosen to ignore. A lot more ignored it as well after the financial meltdown, like as if it would stop being a threat because we don't have the money to deal with it.

To me it is like Religion, if science came up with positive proof that God did not exist. Then the only ppl you would convince are the current atheists. Talk back radio jocks and Murdoch news media seem to have adopted this world wide kill the climate message now for a number of years. What's worse that credible organisations like NASA get treated like the non believers in some extremist religious sect by those same deniers. It's like turning back the clock and making believe we are just venturing out of the cave.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35937 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple of points:
1st: Climate Change IS A FACT!!!
2nd: Global Warming IS A FACT (depending on one's time frame)!!!
3rd: Catastrophic Climate Change Caused By Man is a Scientific HYPOTHESIS!!!
4th: The definition of 'FACT' is not the same as the definition of 'HYPOTHESIS'!!!
So... I believe the Climate changes and I agree with you who Believe in GW.
Now comes the part where my position diverges from 'The Faithful'...
I suggest that from 1850 through 1988 was not the PERFECT CLIMATE for Life on Earth.
I also suggest that Global Warming (Anthropological or otherwise) is A GOOD THING!!!
Therefore, I suggest that my position on these issues is one of a Heretic rather than a denier.
I am quite willing to defend these points with anyone who wishes to employ logic, reason, and science to support their position. Of course, if you lack the intelligence and an education simply reply with insults and bad grammar.
Look forward to your reply
-koolaid
Logic is how i make my living, if i get it wrong then my job becomes a nightmare. In computer logic you do certain actions if certain conditions are met otherwise do something else or nothing.
With climate, science has shown these conditions are met right now and this is the action we need to take to change that condition.
That is reduce man made CO2 emissions world wide.
It has nothing to do in how i feel emotionally or that I worship Tree God's or anything else. It is all about finding a problem and a solution to fix it.
If you start to bring in emotion like throwing coal miners out of work or closing down the local oil refinery. That does not do anything about healing the wound. It becomes a simple hard choice either take the medicine or die a slow painful death from the disease.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#35938 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
“Climate change has moved into a new and highly dangerous phase and is now the most urgent issue confronting the world,” said Ian Dunlop, member of the Club of Rome and Deputy Convener for the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil.
Well then if he says so, ok! Now I have to go and condemn my own kids to the greenhouse gas ovens of this guy's crisis. Oh well.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#35939 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple of points:
1st: Climate Change IS A FACT!!!
-koolaid
Depends on how you define it. If you mean changes of small amount over millions of years, yes. If you mean climate oscillations (i.e. ENSO) sure. If you mean major climate disruptions such as the current one, no. We don't have enough science to clearly state the causes and effects of all the factors. Climate change (really 'enhanced climate change from AGW) is more of a well accepted hypothesis which has not made it to 'fact'(aka theory) status.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
2nd: Global Warming IS A FACT (depending on one's time frame)!!!
Actually "Anthropogenic Global Warming' primarily from increases in GHGs due to industry is a FACT (aka theory) and is eligeable to be taught as such in schools. And the time frame is fixed by the rise of industry.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
3rd: Catastrophic Climate Change Caused By Man is a Scientific HYPOTHESIS!!!
It is the logical outcome of changing global temperatures. It's status is still 'hypothesis' yes, but it is on the order of the 'hypothesis' that 'what goes up must come down'. Given that you are on the surface of a planet with significant mass and you don't throw it up fast enough for escape velocity, it is pretty likely to come down. But we have no 'fact' aka theory to prove it. Despite the millenia of data. Otoh,'catastrophic' is a subjective assessment, not part of either hypothesis or theory. We know that the effects will be LARGE but whether that constitutes a 'catastrophy' to YOU depends entirely on your circumstances.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
4th: The definition of 'FACT' is not the same as the definition of 'HYPOTHESIS'!!!
True. Theory (aka scientific fact) is not the same as a proposed hypothesis. However, a hypothesis may be fact (if it turns out to be true) regardless. The difference is in what WE know for sure. Not in the real world.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
So... I believe the Climate changes and I agree with you who Believe in GW.
Why not read the science and then you can LEARN instead of having faith (aka religion). It is a much better basis for debate.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Now comes the part where my position diverges from 'The Faithful'...
I suggest that from 1850 through 1988 was not the PERFECT CLIMATE for Life on Earth.
I also suggest that Global Warming (Anthropological or otherwise) is A GOOD THING!!!
Therefore, I suggest that my position on these issues is one of a Heretic rather than a denier.
I am quite willing to defend these points with anyone who wishes to employ logic, reason, and science to support their position. Of course, if you lack the intelligence and an education simply reply with insults and bad grammar.
Look forward to your reply
-koolaid
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#35940 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
I suggest that from 1850 through 1988 was not the PERFECT CLIMATE for Life on Earth.
Nobody says it is and 'perfect' is again a SUBJECTIVE adjective. What is 'perfect' for an apple orchard may be ruinous to a grain farmer. The point about the climate during the last century or so is that it was STABLE so investment could have a chance to pay back and the infrastructure developed could be counted on to last decades to pay back. NOW we are facing with bills to continuously rebuild as it changes to accommodate the disruption.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
I also suggest that Global Warming (Anthropological or otherwise) is A GOOD THING!!!
NOW you are in loony land, unless you are suggesting that the human spirit will be improved by coping with adversity.
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
Therefore, I suggest that my position on these issues is one of a Heretic rather than a denier.
I am quite willing to defend these points with anyone who wishes to employ logic, reason, and science to support their position. Of course, if you lack the intelligence and an education simply reply with insults and bad grammar.
Look forward to your reply
-koolaid
I don't discuss your religion. Take it up with your priest. And just because the heirarchy of your church make a statement supporting AGW and suggest that it is our duty to help each other does not mean that YOU cannot be an @sshole. It usually doesn't result in excommunication anyway.

But to get back to reality, AGW is confirmed, likely or very likely to cost more to adapt to than to mitigate and your beliefs don't count.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35941 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
"...a barren desert and remains of decaying gas stations."
Not sure I'd like that... Sounds scary!
Sorta like it was meant "to scare someone".
As scary as "Mad Max" or "Thunderdome".

Science fiction has a habit of coming true.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35942 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
CO2 WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!
If you do not except my words as FACT then you have doomed the Human Race to a horrible burning death because of your denial.
Just in passing, I'll note you're an idiot.

No-one is really saying that, fool. Even asteroids have not destroyed the planet. Probably won't be until the Sun burns out.

It's the macroecosystem, stupid! Possibly "The roaches you will have forever; humans, not so much."

What you're calling scare tactics is really legitimate concerns.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35943 May 18, 2013
mememine69 wrote:
<quoted text>Well then if he says so, ok! Now I have to go and condemn my own kids to the greenhouse gas ovens of this guy's crisis. Oh well.
You and your kids will be alright.....IF.....you have half a brain. If not....

It's not looking real good for you now, though....
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35944 May 18, 2013
KOOLAID WROTE:

Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
CO2 WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!
If you do not except my words as FACT then you have doomed the Human Race to a horrible burning death because of your denial.

GCAVEMAN1 RESPONDED...
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just in passing, I'll note you're an idiot.
No-one is really saying that, fool.
Yes, two basic assumptions necessary for support of the CAGW hypothesis argument. Addressing the latter 1st:

Well, not exactly "No-one".

There are many studies that claim there is robust evidence to suggest ALL Life on Earth will likely suffer a catastrophic demise due to AGW. I recall 3 papers of which I offer one.

BOOM!!! Goes the Earth...
http://nujournal.net/core.pdf

Now to address the former...
"Just in passing, I'll note you're"... From Mississippi.

Good day Mr. gcaveman1
-koolaid
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35945 May 18, 2013
Even the fish have become co-conspirators in the global warming hoax!

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/15/1...
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

#35946 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
KOOLAID WROTE:
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
CO2 WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!
If you do not except my words as FACT then you have doomed the Human Race to a horrible burning death because of your denial.
GCAVEMAN1 RESPONDED...
<quoted text>
Yes, two basic assumptions necessary for support of the CAGW hypothesis argument. Addressing the latter 1st:
Well, not exactly "No-one".
There are many studies that claim there is robust evidence to suggest ALL Life on Earth will likely suffer a catastrophic demise due to AGW. I recall 3 papers of which I offer one.
BOOM!!! Goes the Earth...
http://nujournal.net/core.pdf
Now to address the former...
"Just in passing, I'll note you're"... From Mississippi.
Good day Mr. gcaveman1
-koolaid
\

Anyone studying past extinctions will note that Nature never had to start from scratch; something always survived.

And to address your Mississippi comment, let me say that I can't stand in the way of your prejudices and I encourage you to follow their advice. That way when some dumb Mississippian shows you up, you'll be prepared to eat crow, Southern style.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35948 May 18, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
Even the fish have become co-conspirators in the global warming hoax!
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/15/1...
Ya know, caveman, the folks that think a good big dose of global warming will be a good thing haven't really thought it out.

Let's just suppose the Gulf Stream and other ocean currents shift like scientists have found evidence that they did at the end of the last Ice Age. Nobody knows what that might do to the weather in the USA. What if it turns the Great Plains into the Great American Desert? But it might get wetter, too.

Let's just suppose that all the ice melts. It wouldn't be "Water World" because there's not enough water locked up in ice to flood the whole world. Maximum sea rise would be something like 225 feet. Heck, that wouldn't even flood your place in Mississippi. You're at 423 feet elevation. Of course the lower Mississippi Valley, some of our most fertile cropland, would become the Mississippi Inlet of the Gulf. Your little town might be a seaport in 2113.

Then there's the matter of all those folks in the Middle East and Asia that will be forced to migrate northward by the combination of sea rise and drought.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35949 May 18, 2013
The other point that is also missed by the deniers is food bowl production under threat in mass population areas like Egypt.

This is just one example of what is going on in the middle east and this an article that is 3 yrs old.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/01/28/...

When you have mass population base starved of a resource then there are only two things that can happen. Mass migration or War neither of which can give any comfort to a denier.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35950 May 18, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
\
Anyone studying past extinctions will note that Nature never had to start from scratch; something always survived.
And to address your Mississippi comment, let me say that I can't stand in the way of your prejudices and I encourage you to follow their advice. That way when some dumb Mississippian shows you up, you'll be prepared to eat crow, Southern style.
Perhaps the link was bad... you are suggesting that "Nature" will survive his hypothesis? The author said that Earth will likely "EXPLODE". What part of that quotation escapes comprehension?

So, Scientific Probability is a predudice?... Perhaps, but most likely in the case of CAGW.

Post Script:
"And to address your Mississippi comment",
What is the YOUR basis for describing you and fellow Mississippians as, in your own words... "dumb"?
Do you have some research to back up that premise? If not, I suspect it won't be too hard to find :-)
A very good evening to you , Sir.
-koolaid
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35951 May 18, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps the link was bad... you are suggesting that "Nature" will survive his hypothesis? The author said that Earth will likely "EXPLODE". What part of that quotation escapes comprehension?
So, Scientific Probability is a predudice?... Perhaps, but most likely in the case of CAGW.
Post Script:
"And to address your Mississippi comment",
What is the YOUR basis for describing you and fellow Mississippians as, in your own words... "dumb"?
Do you have some research to back up that premise? If not, I suspect it won't be too hard to find :-)
A very good evening to you , Sir.
-koolaid
PROOF READ PROOF READ PROOF READ.:-)

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35952 May 18, 2013
There's never been an experimental test of man made climate change mitigation or climate change mitigation. Using a bad theory to promote an agenda is pseudoscience. If you use pseudoscience to get taxpayer money, that's a hoax.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35953 May 19, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
There's never been an experimental test of man made climate change mitigation or climate change mitigation. Using a bad theory to promote an agenda is pseudoscience. If you use pseudoscience to get taxpayer money, that's a hoax.
As a troll for anti climate msgs you keep posting the same crap over n over and no matter how many times you that you post, it still makes no sense.
I mean science has told you if enough of you dump waste into a water supply it becomes toxic yet you cannot equate that same logic telling you if you dump into the atmosphere for long enough it also becomes toxic to your environment. What part of that equation do you not understand?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#35954 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
As a troll for anti climate msgs you keep posting the same crap over n over and no matter how many times you that you post, it still makes no sense.
I mean science has told you if enough of you dump waste into a water supply it becomes toxic yet you cannot equate that same logic telling you if you dump into the atmosphere for long enough it also becomes toxic to your environment. What part of that equation do you not understand?
He gets paid to post this crap, just like people get paid to dump crap into rivers and take the money.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35955 May 19, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
The other point that is also missed by the deniers is food bowl production under threat in mass population areas like Egypt.
This is just one example of what is going on in the middle east and this an article that is 3 yrs old.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/01/28/...
When you have mass population base starved of a resource then there are only two things that can happen. Mass migration or War neither of which can give any comfort to a denier.
The Nile Delta salting up or going under the Mediterranean or the Nile River running dry would not affect the "warming is good" crowd much. When you get right down to it, they don't care what happens to people in Egypt, or Bangladesh, or sub-Saharan Africa. With the level of Islamophobia in this country some people think their demise would be a good thing. Religious evangelicals who believe the hookum that "we are living in the End Times" would just chalk it up as a prelude to the Tribulations. There is one thing that might - and I say might, because they could well say that it was part of the Tribulations, too - make them change their minds.

The Jordan River is a kind of "canary in the coal mine" for global warming. The Jordan is a tiny little river that wouldn't even be a good sized creek in the U.S.A. or Russia. It exists only because Mt. Hermon is barely tall enough to have snow cover the year round. That snow cap has been getting smaller and smaller every summer for the last 20 years. One hot August not too far in the future the snow on Mt. Hermon is going to melt completely. When that happens the Jordan River will run dry. As hung up on the security of Israel that American evangelicals are, that might prompt them to reconsider the impact of doubling the atmosphere's CO2. But before that happens, we are quite likely to see a big Middle East war because Israel will find some pretext (if indeed they bother to justify it with a pretext) to invade Syria and gain access to the Euphrates.

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