Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.
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33,801 - 33,820 of 46,371 Comments Last updated 4 min ago
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35851 May 14, 2013
•Historically, no nation has emitted more global warming pollution than the United States. From 1960-2005, the U.S. emitted 213,608 MtCO2, 26% of total global emissions. The next biggest polluter, China, emitted 88,643 MtCO2 over the same time frame, 10.7% of global emissions.
•The U.S. also exceeded almost every other nation in per capita emissions. Per capita, the U.S. emitted 720 tons of CO2 per person per year from 1960-2005. This is more than ten times China’s per capita emissions (68 tons of CO2) during the same period, and ninety times the per capita emissions of Kenya (7.7 tCO2). Even considered individually, the 50 U.S. states are among the nations that are the largest emitters of carbon dioxide on earth.
•Even considered individually, the 50 U.S. states are among the nation that are the largest emitters of carbon dioxide on Earth.
•The average U.S. state emitted 4,449 MtCO2 from 1960-2005, which would rank 30th among the nations of the world. The combined historic emissions of just seven states””Texas, California, Illinois, New York, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Ohio””totalled 96,517 MtCO2, more than any other country in the world, including China (92,950).
•If Texas were its own country, it would rank sixth out of 184 countries in the world in total emissions, trailing just China, Russia, Germnay, Japan, and the United Kingdom.

“Let's X Change!!”

Since: Feb 09

B4 HOPE Is Gone...

#35852 May 14, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
•Historically, no nation has emitted more global warming pollution than the United States. From 1960-2005, the U.S. emitted 213,608 MtCO2, 26% of total global emissions. The next biggest polluter, China, emitted 88,643 MtCO2 over the same time frame, 10.7% of global emissions.
•The U.S. also exceeded almost every other nation in per capita emissions. Per capita, the U.S. emitted 720 tons of CO2 per person per year from 1960-2005. This is more than ten times China’s per capita emissions (68 tons of CO2) during the same period, and ninety times the per capita emissions of Kenya (7.7 tCO2). Even considered individually, the 50 U.S. states are among the nations that are the largest emitters of carbon dioxide on earth.
•Even considered individually, the 50 U.S. states are among the nation that are the largest emitters of carbon dioxide on Earth.
•The average U.S. state emitted 4,449 MtCO2 from 1960-2005, which would rank 30th among the nations of the world. The combined historic emissions of just seven states””Texas, California, Illinois, New York, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Ohio””totalled 96,517 MtCO2, more than any other country in the world, including China (92,950).
•If Texas were its own country, it would rank sixth out of 184 countries in the world in total emissions, trailing just China, Russia, Germnay, Japan, and the United Kingdom.
stands to reason....we're the world's largest economy. hopefully we'll continue to be in first place!!
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#35853 May 14, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Nice humor. I had wondered what was meant by your name.
Did it drop the minus (-)? I used to call it by that.
You are a winner but not the minus.
OK, Space, he did keep or add the "-", so I guess he is earthling minus one.

My screen name was developed accidentally because the name "caveman" had already been taken when I started getting online in the early 90's. Gcaveman was taken too, so I added the one and got my name. Then I realized it made a statement that I'll explore below. I got clever without even trying!

The "G" is the first letter of my first name.

"caveman" reflects two philosophies of mine. First, that I have been a long-time advocate of underground and earth-sheltered buildings to address our energy use in construction. Second, that for all our technology, we still basically have the same genes, culture, and habits that we have had for a million years. We are all still hunter-gatherers, but we have books and architecture, jets and machine guns now. A lot of times, our modern pretensions run hard up against our Stone Age attitude. The caveman wins a lot of the time.

Gee, caveman won!

Thanks for the compliments!

What's the basis for your name?
litesong

Everett, WA

#35854 May 14, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
IT'S BACK!
Earthling has appropriated the "1" I use as my phonetic commentary, "Gee, caveman won!" as an ego boost for his tired old self, and now labels himself "Earthling won!"
Maybe he can't be original anymore. He IS getting on in years....
//////////
SpaceBlues wrote:
Nice humor.
//////////
litesong wrote:
Whereas -1 was only an approximate estimate of dirtling's value, the name Earthling, had no semblance of accuracy. dirtling's derived names had much more value for their accuracy........'earthling has no brain', eart hling(alien has no affinity to Earth),'injun killer(has no love for human beings). More accuracy is in its description....... dirtling, a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#35855 May 14, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd say more like 15-25 years, if then. The religious part is too deeply engrained in the 50 and over generation for them to ever change it. There is also a "question mark" generation of kids coming on - white, lower middle class but who think that they are upper class, home schooled or educated in small private church-run academies that do not teach any science that conflicts with the Christian Right's fundamentalist beliefs.
You may be right, but remember also how quickly things can change.

A revolution occurred in the 1960's, where we rejected most of our parents teaching and outlook. Though most historians would give the hippie movement an 8-9 year lifespan, it had more profound effects than just introducing drugs to mainstream America. It first accepted the civil rights movement and then lead directly to the modern day movements of environmentalism, feminism, health food, anti-war, and anti-government.

It could happen again, at least in America, when the younger generation doesn't have it as good as their parents did.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#35856 May 14, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not so sure. The "information age" is a two edged sword. It can be used to spread misinformation or disinformation just as easily as it spreads real information. If some popular televangelist takes up the "environmentalism is the new pagan nature worship" and "global warming is Satan's lie" idea where Jerry Falwell left off it will filter down to the local pulpit.
True enough, one of many possibilities.

But even now, we hear of evangelicals heeding that part of the Bible that says man should be the steward of the earth. They seem to be gaining support, if slowly.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35857 May 14, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be right, but remember also how quickly things can change.
A revolution occurred in the 1960's, where we rejected most of our parents teaching and outlook. Though most historians would give the hippie movement an 8-9 year lifespan, it had more profound effects than just introducing drugs to mainstream America. It first accepted the civil rights movement and then lead directly to the modern day movements of environmentalism, feminism, health food, anti-war, and anti-government.
It could happen again, at least in America, when the younger generation doesn't have it as good as their parents did.
How true. Most people think about revolutions the same way Karl Marx did, even if they are people who vehemently disagree with Marx. They think that the spark ignites in the impoverished down-and-out people at the bottom, but it does not. It starts among people who believed in the existing system, expected to rise in it, and then suddenly discover that their expectations will not be realized because of some long dormant fault or recent change in the system.

The stage for that is being set in America right now. College graduates cannot find jobs after they graduate and most of them are stuck with huge college loans that they confidently expected to be able to pay off with the higher income that they were told all their lives that a college degree would earn them.

A big part of American exceptionalism was that things did always get better for each new generation. Unfortunately I am starting to see a sort of anti-exceptionalism at work this time. A lot of young people are totally apathetic. They really do not care. Others have embraced the backward-looking ethos of the economic Libertarians who want to turn the clock back to a social structure like it was in the 1890s.

A history professor friend of mine told me that there is no historical precedent for what is happening in the USA now in modern times. He says that the closet thing to it is what happened toward the end of the Roman Empire. Scary prospect.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35858 May 14, 2013
UK Guardian 13 May 2013
One-third of common land animals could see dramatic losses this century because of climate change, scientists predict. More than half of plants could be hit the same way as habitats become unsuitable for numerous species. The collapse of ecosystems would have major economic impacts on agriculture, air quality, clean water access, and tourism.

Global temperatures are set to rise 4C above preindustrial levels by 2100 if nothing is done to stem greenhouse gas emissions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/ma...
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#35859 May 14, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
How true. Most people think about revolutions the same way Karl Marx did, even if they are people who vehemently disagree with Marx. They think that the spark ignites in the impoverished down-and-out people at the bottom, but it does not. It starts among people who believed in the existing system, expected to rise in it, and then suddenly discover that their expectations will not be realized because of some long dormant fault or recent change in the system.
The stage for that is being set in America right now. College graduates cannot find jobs after they graduate and most of them are stuck with huge college loans that they confidently expected to be able to pay off with the higher income that they were told all their lives that a college degree would earn them.
A big part of American exceptionalism was that things did always get better for each new generation. Unfortunately I am starting to see a sort of anti-exceptionalism at work this time. A lot of young people are totally apathetic. They really do not care. Others have embraced the backward-looking ethos of the economic Libertarians who want to turn the clock back to a social structure like it was in the 1890s.
A history professor friend of mine told me that there is no historical precedent for what is happening in the USA now in modern times. He says that the closet thing to it is what happened toward the end of the Roman Empire. Scary prospect.
Concur completely with what you have said.

Not gonna get into Roman Empire comparisons, but what is happening now is unprecedented and soon will be more so. Not just America, but all over the world, the young see us screwing up their world, and they are ready for a change. Don't revolutions always start near the bottom?

We should be glad that we white people in America have long been protected, isolated from the rest of the turbulent world, by the Atlantic and the Great Pacific, and even now do not have to worry about angry Bangladeshis paddling to our shores, demanding restitution. We have committed the sin; will we pay?

Probably not.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

#35860 May 14, 2013
litesong wrote:
gcaveman1 wrote:
IT'S BACK!
Earthling has appropriated the "1" I use as my phonetic commentary, "Gee, caveman won!" as an ego boost for his tired old self, and now labels himself "Earthling won!"
Maybe he can't be original anymore. He IS getting on in years....
//////////
SpaceBlues wrote:
Nice humor.
//////////
litesong wrote:
Whereas -1 was only an approximate estimate of dirtling's value, the name Earthling, had no semblance of accuracy. dirtling's derived names had much more value for their accuracy........'earthling has no brain', eart hling(alien has no affinity to Earth),'injun killer(has no love for human beings). More accuracy is in its description....... dirtling, a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig.
Derived names.

something about 'earthling has no brain', eart hling(alien has no affinity to Earth),'injun killer(has no love for human beings)......... dirtling, a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig.

That kind of derived name?

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35862 May 14, 2013
Sea levels may rise as much as 69 centimeters through 2100 as water temperatures rise, glaciers melt in the Andes and Himalayas and ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica shed water, European scientists said. The new estimate exceeds a previous forecast of as much as 59 centimeters by the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007, which didn’t fully account for the effects of melting ice, researchers with the independent Ice2sea project of 24 institutions in Europe and Chile said today.

The study is aimed at giving greater clarity on UN predictions for the effects of climate change to guide policy makers. Envoys from more than 190 nations are working to draft a new climate-change treaty by 2015 that will come into effect in 2020 and bind all countries. Average sea levels already rose by about 17 centimeters last century, according to the UN panel.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-cha...
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35863 May 15, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't revolutions always start near the bottom?

We should be glad that we white people in America have long been protected, isolated from the rest of the turbulent world, by the Atlantic and the Great Pacific, and even now do not have to worry about angry Bangladeshis paddling to our shores, demanding restitution. We have committed the sin; will we pay?
Probably not.
No. Revolutions do not always start near the bottom. They start among the upwardly mobile whose upward mobility is suddenly halted and reversed.

Suggest you read an article:

James C. Davies, "Toward a Theory of Revolution" in American Sociological Review, vol. 27, no. 1 (Feb. 1962), pp. 5-19.

It is available online from JSTOR but you can't link to it, you have to play with Google Advanced Search to get it to finally come up.

As to your second statement, that goes to the peculiar sort of apathy among a big segment of the young that I wrote about. They simply do not care if Bangladesh or the Nile Delta goes under the sea. And they are receptive to the idea of shutting the refugees out. It is related to a broader trend among a certain segment of youth today. What is going on is revolutionary, but it is the antithesis of the revolution of the 1960s.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35864 May 15, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, Space, he did keep or add the "-", so I guess he is earthling minus one.
My screen name was developed accidentally because the name "caveman" had already been taken when I started getting online in the early 90's. Gcaveman was taken too, so I added the one and got my name. Then I realized it made a statement that I'll explore below. I got clever without even trying!
The "G" is the first letter of my first name.
"caveman" reflects two philosophies of mine. First, that I have been a long-time advocate of underground and earth-sheltered buildings to address our energy use in construction. Second, that for all our technology, we still basically have the same genes, culture, and habits that we have had for a million years. We are all still hunter-gatherers, but we have books and architecture, jets and machine guns now. A lot of times, our modern pretensions run hard up against our Stone Age attitude. The caveman wins a lot of the time.
Gee, caveman won!
Thanks for the compliments!
What's the basis for your name?
You are welcome.

Mine is boring. Just a quick decision that worked.

Speaking of 'minus one,' here's an old British habit, eating human flesh.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13891...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35865 May 15, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not so sure. The "information age" is a two edged sword. It can be used to spread misinformation or disinformation just as easily as it spreads real information. If some popular televangelist takes up the "environmentalism is the new pagan nature worship" and "global warming is Satan's lie" idea where Jerry Falwell left off it will filter down to the local pulpit.
Well, here's something, a "hate map:"

http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate... #

Maybe Topix addresses would also give a basis for a 'denier map.'
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35866 May 15, 2013

“fairtax.org”

Since: Dec 08

gauley bridge wv

#35867 May 15, 2013
ritedownthemiddle wrote:
<quoted text>stands to reason....we're the world's largest economy. hopefully we'll continue to be in first place!!
Won't happen. By size of population alone India and China will pass us as their people become wealthier.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#35868 May 15, 2013
flack wrote:
<quoted text> Won't happen. By size of population alone India and China will pass us as their people become wealthier.
But the US is a trading nation and that usually makes for a much higher GDP. Having a wonderful flat and fertile 'heartland' for grain production and two major waterways for transport well into the interior, as well as being situation on major routes between the Far East and Europe goes a long way to explaining the economic strength (in the past). Also allow for relatively untouched resources of North America.

True, the US is bound to slip now that resources are fewer and not as good, so they have globalization to strip resources from the world. And with no concept of 'sustainability' the US wastes a lot of it's resources. But the key advantage will keep it relatively strong even as it gropes it's way to sustainability.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35869 May 15, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
But the US is a trading nation and that usually makes for a much higher GDP. Having a wonderful flat and fertile 'heartland' for grain production and two major waterways for transport well into the interior, as well as being situation on major routes between the Far East and Europe goes a long way to explaining the economic strength (in the past). Also allow for relatively untouched resources of North America.
True, the US is bound to slip now that resources are fewer and not as good, so they have globalization to strip resources from the world. And with no concept of 'sustainability' the US wastes a lot of it's resources. But the key advantage will keep it relatively strong even as it gropes it's way to sustainability.
No one else seems to make the connection that Globalisation is the one thing that has accelerated climate change. It was inevitable once the economic machine went searching beyond borders for growth. That's how we got China off push bikes into cars and on it goes. Within the next 5-6 yrs they will take over the USA as the worlds largest economy. Their military will grow from strength to strength from having a army that was poorly equipped to one of high tech. All from the Tech we have given them or they have stolen. How that economy will be sustained is another matter but most economists believe it won't survive in the current political model. So in other words they could rule the world or self implode. It's anyone's guess but they are spending way more than the West on environmental tech covering themselves for the future.
They are buying up farming land all over the world including the USA. It's a pretty simple ploy they just pay more than anyone else to whomever is selling. So slowly but surely driven by state owned enterprises they are covering all bases. Banking, Industry, Food Supply and Resources. Something no other Western country could even hope to do with their political systems.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35870 May 15, 2013
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
... It's anyone's guess but they are spending way more than the West on environmental tech covering themselves for the future.
They are buying up farming land all over the world including the USA. It's a pretty simple ploy they just pay more than anyone else to whomever is selling. So slowly but surely driven by state owned enterprises they are covering all bases. Banking, Industry, Food Supply and Resources. Something no other Western country could even hope to do with their political systems.
If you remember, the japanese did as much back in the late 80'3 and early 90's and it didn't turn out very good for them. There are a lot of things to consider.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#35871 May 15, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
If you remember, the japanese did as much back in the late 80'3 and early 90's and it didn't turn out very good for them. There are a lot of things to consider.
That's true but the global economy hit them as well, almost all their electronics manufacturing moved to Asia and they en-counted 2 new big players out doing them in their own game. Korea & China
They had built a reputation from poor quality post war to high quality adapting the very things that the US had invented (Quality systems ) & they adopted it on a grand scale. Now with stiff competition even that has slipped sometimes. Toyota is an example of that. Plus those natural disasters have not helped them either.

The big difference in China is a central grand plan and various projects get ticked because of it. However once an economy thrives corruption runs rife and that might be their implode trigger in the end. The opulence of the West doesn't mix with a controlled press and no free speech. Sooner or later one has to give.

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