Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday 47,501
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35750 May 11, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Lucky you. Here's Al Gore:
400 ppm May 10, 2013 : 10:25 AM
Yesterday, for the first time in human history, concentrations of carbon dioxide, the primary global warming pollutant, hit 400 parts per million in our planet's atmosphere. This number is a reminder that for the last 150 years -- and especially over the last several decades -- we have been recklessly polluting the protective sheath of atmosphere that surrounds the Earth and protects the conditions that have fostered the flourishing of our civilization. We are altering the composition of our atmosphere at an unprecedented rate. Indeed, every single day we pour an additional 90 million tons of global warming pollution into the sky as if it were an open sewer. As the distinguished climate scientist Jim Hansen has calculated, the accumulated manmade global warming pollution in the atmosphere now traps enough extra heat energy each day to equal the energy that would be released by 400,000 Hiroshima-scale atomic bombs exploding every single day. It's a big planet -- but that is a LOT of energy. And it is having a destructive effect.
Now, more than ever before, we are reaping the consequences of our recklessness. From Superstorm Sandy which crippled New York City and large areas of New Jersey, to a drought which parched more than half of our nation; from a flood that inundated large swaths of Australia to rising seas affecting millions around the world, the reality of the climate crisis is upon us.
Our food systems, our cities, our people and our very way of life developed within a stable range of climatic conditions on Earth. Without immediate and decisive action, these favorable conditions on Earth could become a memory if we continue to make the climate crisis worse day after day after day.
With any great challenge comes great opportunity. We have the rare privilege to rise to an occasion of global magnitude. To do so, our communities, our businesses, our universities, and our governments need to work in harmony to stop the climate crisis. We must summon the very best of the human spirit and draw on our courage, our ingenuity, our intellect, and our determination to confront this crisis. Make no mistake, this crisis will demand no less than our very best. I am optimistic because we have risen to meet the greatest challenges of our past.
So please, take this day and the milestone it represents to reflect on the fragility of our civilization and and the planetary ecosystem on which it depends. Rededicate yourself to the task of saving our future. Talk to your neighbors, call your legislator, let your voice be heard. We must take immediate action to solve this crisis. Not tomorrow, not next week, not next year. Now.
You will never sell the idea that an increase in CO2 will harm the environment to people in coal mining towns in Appalachia. They are hurting because of unemployment in the mines now, and are demanding that regulations be relaxed in the belief that more mountain top removal strip mining will bring more mining jobs. You can't convince them that more coal is being mined now than ever before and that their lack of employment is largely because machines have taken the place of humans in the mines. Statistics that show 10 times more coal being mined today than 100 years ago but the number of miners less than 1/10 what it was in 1910 do not register with them. This from a thread called "Our Coal Miners need Jobs!!!" on the Pineville, Kentucky, topix forum:

"I Appreciate the energy God gave us inside those mountains.The mountains can be mined for the energy we need and still be beautiful.You need to also realize the danger that lurks on these mountains -The dope growers they are the real environmental demise of our society."

Coal is all that they know and they refuse to see any future without it. To their way of thinking, God made coal to be burned and any suggestion that it not be burned is akin to blasphemy.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#35751 May 11, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
Solar required on new construction.
http://thebea.st/10obIB8
I can remember hearing about the long arm of the government mandating toilets and grounded electrical plugs. How'd that work out for us?
Pretty damn good!
Yeah - just great!

EPA has issued procedures for cleaning up a broken CF bulb reducing the time required by 15 minutes - now down to 8 hours to clean up.

The 3-page procedure indicates that the most hazardous period is the first few minutes just after the breakage when the mercury vapor is released into the air - while you are reading the cleanup procedure.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35752 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah - just great!
EPA has issued procedures for cleaning up a broken CF bulb reducing the time required by 15 minutes - now down to 8 hours to clean up.
The 3-page procedure indicates that the most hazardous period is the first few minutes just after the breakage when the mercury vapor is released into the air - while you are reading the cleanup procedure.
Remember, being a responsible parent one must start teaching one's children about saving the planet from a very early age.
Teach by example; Every table lamp in the baby's room must use an energy saving CFL bulb. Understanding that if the lamp tips over and the bulb breaks, you, as a prepared parent will review (now only 3 pages long) "the hazmat" cleanup instructions and follow the procedures outlined.

If, by chance the crib is in a room with carpet... Disregard the above advice, evacuate the room immediately and call your local Fire department's "Hazardous Waste Mitigation Response Team".

Remember, together, we can save our planet.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35753 May 11, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Here's a google search of Topix for your review:
https://www.google.com/search...
That's a long URL, here's the tiny version: http://tinyurl.com/cjrnpc9
.
<quoted text>I'm sorry you forgot your password.
No, LIAR, let me show you what you wrote:

"Using fossil fuel helps free ancient carbon back into the atmosphere where it can do some good. Freeing carbon dioxide into the air helps mitigate climate change against global cooling; the well known ice age climate scenario.
We've always adapted to climate change. Don't panic."

This is what you said. You didn't say "if"; you didn't say "maybe".

You know the effects of CO2. But you LIE with your pansy-ass mitigation red herring!

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35754 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah - just great!
EPA has issued procedures for cleaning up a broken CF bulb reducing the time required by 15 minutes - now down to 8 hours to clean up.
The 3-page procedure indicates that the most hazardous period is the first few minutes just after the breakage when the mercury vapor is released into the air - while you are reading the cleanup procedure.
How is that different than the long tube flurescent bulbs that have been in service for years?

Some thoughts about CFL's

Small amounts of mercury can be released into the environment when CFLs break, or if they are improperly disposed of at the end of their useful lives. Despite these emissions, the use of CFLs actually helps reduce total mercury emissions in the U.S. because of their significant energy savings. Using energy-saving CFLs reduces demand for electricity, which in turn reduces the amount of coal burned by power plants, which reduces emissions of mercury when the coal is burned. In other words, CFL's release less Hg into the environment that burning coal to light incandescents....

On average, CFLs contain about four milligrams (.004g or 0.00014oz)
of mercury sealed within the glass tubing. By comparison, older thermometers contain about 500 milligrams of mercury an amount equal to the mercury in over 100 CFLs.

What if I can't follow all the recommended steps? or I cleaned up a CFL but didn't do it properly?
Don't be alarmed; these steps are only precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount in a mercury thermometer.

The conflab about the cleanup of CFL's sounds to me like just another politization of environmental concerns.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#35755 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah - just great!
EPA has issued procedures for cleaning up a broken CF bulb reducing the time required by 15 minutes - now down to 8 hours to clean up.
The 3-page procedure indicates that the most hazardous period is the first few minutes just after the breakage when the mercury vapor is released into the air - while you are reading the cleanup procedure.
I'm gonna call bullshit on that one. Show us the pamphlet. I wanna see 8 hours mentioned somewhere in three pages.

Why did you not complain about fluorescents before now? They've been around for several decades. Is your prejudice just because they are labeled "green"?

So am I to suppose that you don't like indoor toilets or grounded plugs, either? If you own you house, why don't you just go ahead and remove them?
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#35756 May 11, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
How is that different than the long tube flurescent bulbs that have been in service for years?
How is that different?

Simple. I could freely choose where & if to have fluorescent tubes at all in my private places of abode - not have ill-considered health hazards and unintended consequences imposed upon me and my family by some half-competent faceless federal bureaucracy justifying their areas of ignorance and incompetence simply by serving up self-serving and often half-baked "analyses" designed merely to paper over a pre-cooked policy agenda.

Always "for the greater good," of course ...

The point of my post was merely to puncture the suggestion that all federal government-mandated intrusions such as this are NOT well-thought-through or good.

Of COURSE there is a role for gov't regulation - so please don't come back with the whole tiresome straw-man litany of "good and necessary" things like building codes, etc.

The problem arises when these Statist goo-goo control freaks wander into areas they don't fully understand and ignore the LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. Then, by my empirical experience, they fark up other things at least half the time, often making things WORSE in unanticipated ways when they meddle with dictating private decisions by free, informed, private individuals.

That that they then spend a couple decades 'tweaking' the regs to rectify their original errors is no defense.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#35757 May 11, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm gonna call bullshit on that one. Show us the pamphlet. I wanna see 8 hours mentioned somewhere in three pages.
Why did you not complain about fluorescents before now? They've been around for several decades. Is your prejudice just because they are labeled "green"?
So am I to suppose that you don't like indoor toilets or grounded plugs, either? If you own you house, why don't you just go ahead and remove them?
My, we are lazy, aren't we?

http://lmgtfy.com/...
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35758 May 11, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
The conflab about the cleanup of CFL's sounds to me like just another politization of environmental concerns.
Thanks,
That's just what I tried to tell 'Child Protection Services'... Mercury is SAFE.... Exhaled CO2 is Poison.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35759 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
My, we are lazy, aren't we?
http://lmgtfy.com/...
I love the advice at the end of the instructions... "For Questions call the Poison Control Center".:-/

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35760 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
How is that different?
Simple. I could freely choose where & if to have fluorescent tubes at all in my private places of abode - not have ill-considered health hazards and unintended consequences imposed upon me and my family by some half-competent faceless federal bureaucracy justifying their areas of ignorance and incompetence simply by serving up self-serving and often half-baked "analyses" designed merely to paper over a pre-cooked policy agenda.
Always "for the greater good," of course ...
The point of my post was merely to puncture the suggestion that all federal government-mandated intrusions such as this are NOT well-thought-through or good.
Of COURSE there is a role for gov't regulation - so please don't come back with the whole tiresome straw-man litany of "good and necessary" things like building codes, etc.
The problem arises when these Statist goo-goo control freaks wander into areas they don't fully understand and ignore the LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. Then, by my empirical experience, they fark up other things at least half the time, often making things WORSE in unanticipated ways when they meddle with dictating private decisions by free, informed, private individuals.
That that they then spend a couple decades 'tweaking' the regs to rectify their original errors is no defense.
Today you can choose whether to have CFL's or LED's, so what is the problem? There are consequences from regulations. Some are problematic, however, the regulations are for very good reasons. Some individualistic folks always enhance the negatives. Examples of this are chlorofluorocarbons, DDT, water saving toilets, unleaded gasoline, high mileage automobiles. CFLs are more efficient and cheaper, DDT was an effective insecticide and was cheap. Origional water saving toilets didn't perform well, unleaded gasoline will destroy engines and cars will not run as well, high mileage automobiles are by nature smaller and more dangerous.

It reminds me of the fluoridation of drinking water. Some howl that fluorine is a poison while merrily drinking phosphoric acid in their favorite soda. It is mostly about politicizing to the ill advised individualism by RW politicians who attempt to get votes by stirring up stupid hatred of necessary regulations. It is most often referred to as a liberal attempt to control your life. The interesting thing is that almost all these type of things were historically supported by the conservative party.

Some mistakes are made. Replacing the incandescent bulb isn't one of them. By the way, there is no such thing as private individuals. We are all interdependent.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35761 May 11, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks,
That's just what I tried to tell 'Child Protection Services'... Mercury is SAFE.... Exhaled CO2 is Poison.
A good example of your reasonong ability.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35762 May 11, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
My, we are lazy, aren't we?
http://lmgtfy.com/...
I read and didn't find anything about eight hours of 15 minutes...
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35763 May 11, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text> Good point AKA-
I read and didn't find anything about eight hours of 15 minutes...
Yes, I noticed that too, the process involved a timeline measured in days for returning the room to a safe environment.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35764 May 11, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I noticed that too, the process involved a timeline measured in days for returning the room to a safe environment.
That is the problem with you Koolaid drinkers. You can't read for context. You just parrot what Limbaug and Beck regurgitate.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35765 May 11, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
No, LIAR, let me show you what you wrote:
"Using fossil fuel helps free ancient carbon back into the atmosphere where it can do some good. Freeing carbon dioxide into the air helps mitigate climate change against global cooling; the well known ice age climate scenario.
We've always adapted to climate change. Don't panic."
This is what you said. You didn't say "if"; you didn't say "maybe".
You know the effects of CO2. But you LIE with your pansy-ass mitigation red herring!
If you do a google search for the quote above, you won't find my name on that post. Gcaveman made a mistake, there's a difference between all the CO2 in the air and our meager contributions.

Alarmists accuse their opponents of lying, I accuse them of making mistakes; this is where we differ.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#35766 May 11, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>. there's a difference between all the CO2 in the air and our meager contributions.
.
Say what? Read to learn:

400 ppm May 10, 2013 : 10:25 AM

Yesterday, for the first time in human history, concentrations of carbon dioxide, the primary global warming pollutant, hit 400 parts per million in our planet's atmosphere. This number is a reminder that for the last 150 years -- and especially over the last several decades -- we have been recklessly polluting the protective sheath of atmosphere that surrounds the Earth and protects the conditions that have fostered the flourishing of our civilization. We are altering the composition of our atmosphere at an unprecedented rate. Indeed, every single day we pour an additional 90 million tons of global warming pollution into the sky as if it were an open sewer. As the distinguished climate scientist Jim Hansen has calculated, the accumulated manmade global warming pollution in the atmosphere now traps enough extra heat energy each day to equal the energy that would be released by 400,000 Hiroshima-scale atomic bombs exploding every single day. It's a big planet -- but that is a LOT of energy. And it is having a destructive effect.

Now, more than ever before, we are reaping the consequences of our recklessness. From Superstorm Sandy which crippled New York City and large areas of New Jersey, to a drought which parched more than half of our nation; from a flood that inundated large swaths of Australia to rising seas affecting millions around the world, the reality of the climate crisis is upon us.

Our food systems, our cities, our people and our very way of life developed within a stable range of climatic conditions on Earth. Without immediate and decisive action, these favorable conditions on Earth could become a memory if we continue to make the climate crisis worse day after day after day.

With any great challenge comes great opportunity. We have the rare privilege to rise to an occasion of global magnitude. To do so, our communities, our businesses, our universities, and our governments need to work in harmony to stop the climate crisis. We must summon the very best of the human spirit and draw on our courage, our ingenuity, our intellect, and our determination to confront this crisis. Make no mistake, this crisis will demand no less than our very best. I am optimistic because we have risen to meet the greatest challenges of our past.

So please, take this day and the milestone it represents to reflect on the fragility of our civilization and and the planetary ecosystem on which it depends. Rededicate yourself to the task of saving our future. Talk to your neighbors, call your legislator, let your voice be heard. We must take immediate action to solve this crisis. Not tomorrow, not next week, not next year. Now.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#35767 May 11, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text> Gcaveman made a mistake, there's a difference between all the CO2 in the air and our meager contributions...
CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen more than 25% since 1958 primarily due to man's activities.
Retired Farmer

Kuttawa, KY

#35768 May 11, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen more than 25% since 1958 primarily due to man's activities.
Scary as it is, the fact that the concentration of CO2 in the earth atmosphere is now 400 ppm is not as frightening as the rate of its increase. When Scottish chemist Joseph Black (17281799)first measured CO2 in the atmosphere in the mid-1750s, it was 280 ppm. Scientists have since discoved that it hovered around that figure for thousands of years. It was at 315 ppm in 1958. That means that it took 200 years for humans to put 35 ppm into the atomosphere by burning coal and petroleum, with coal the largest contributor. However, in the 55 years since 1958, we have added 85 ppm, or 2.43 times as much as in the previous 200 years. The rate at which CO2 is being added to the atmosphere is increasing. We will reach the 500 ppm mark by 2050 or so, which is only 37 years from now.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#35769 May 11, 2013
Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Scary as it is, the fact that the concentration of CO2 in the earth atmosphere is now 400 ppm is not as frightening as the rate of its increase. When Scottish chemist Joseph Black (17281799)first measured CO2 in the atmosphere in the mid-1750s, it was 280 ppm. Scientists have since discoved that it hovered around that figure for thousands of years. It was at 315 ppm in 1958. That means that it took 200 years for humans to put 35 ppm into the atomosphere by burning coal and petroleum, with coal the largest contributor. However, in the 55 years since 1958, we have added 85 ppm, or 2.43 times as much as in the previous 200 years. The rate at which CO2 is being added to the atmosphere is increasing. We will reach the 500 ppm mark by 2050 or so, which is only 37 years from now.
As a fellow plow jockey, we can appreciate CO2 at 500ppm. Double that and less water is required for the same yield. So with the increased population, we can only hope for higher levels. Yes we are pulling away from the dangerously low levels of our past.

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