Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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Since: May 10

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#35239
Apr 19, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Arctic temperatures above the 80th parallel have been above normal for ~180+ out of the last 230 days. That proves that global warming has arrived.
Actually, that is y u r cold. Extra energy AGW warm fronts push hard into the Arctic, warming the NP. Simultaneously, Arctic cold fronts are pushed south, onto populated southern areas. Arctic cold fronts can be pushed as far south as Mexico, Central America, China & India.
Temperatures are in the minus mid-twenties degC. on the north shores of Hudson Bay. You should be cold. However, temperatures from the southern tip of Greenland to northern Russia are above freezing & as high as +20degC.(+68degF).
Sooo, the temperature between the 80th and the North Pole dictate what the temperature is all over the Earth? According to NASA-MSFC (not NASA-GISS) the Earth troposphere has cooled one degree centigrade so far this century as measured by satellites. This compares to NASA-GISS which only measures the temperatures of LARGE cities.
Have you ever heard of the Urban Heat Island Effect? Yep, about two hundred years ago some true free thinkers got together in Boston and wondered if downtown was hotter than it was in the rural areas. So, they started to keep journals taking temperatures every six am and six pm and once a month they would meet in Boston and compare notes. And yes, it was hotter downtown than it was in the surrounding rural areas winter and summer.
Do you know where temperature is measured in Atlanta, GA? Well, at the same place it has been for over sixty year, at the Atlanta Airport. And even though the airport has not moved, the city is. The Atlanta Metro Area is now thirty miles south of the airport.
And all those extra cars, planes, trains, buildings, roads, air conditioners, etc. and the city not only continues to grow, but it gets hotter.
Yep, all Dr. James Hansen has done is document the Urban Heat Island Effect. Meanwhile Germany had it's coldest winter in 150 years. England and France, 50 plus years. China, Mongolia, Russia, etc. all too!!!
You know, the Bering Sea had it's worst winter in 35 years and last year Alaska had met it's coldest temperature ever recorded but the thermomiter broke for about four hours and they suspect it went even lower!!!

Since: May 10

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#35240
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Bitter cold records broken in Alaska – all time coldest record nearly broken, but Murphy’s Law intervenes
Posted on January 30, 2012 by Anthony Watts
Jim River, AK closed in on the all time record coldest temperature of -80°F set in 1971, which is not only the Alaska all-time record, but the record for the entire United States. Unfortunately, it seems the battery died in the weather station just at the critical moment.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/30/bitter-...

Worst Alaska winter piles on more snow
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57358349/...

Jena Germany Sees Coldest March In 160 Years! Meteorologist Calls Arctic Warmth/Cold Winter Theory “Nonsense”
By P Gosselin on 9. April 2013
March was an extremely cold month in Europe, especially in the southern part of eastern Germany. Veteran meteorologist Thomas Globig of MDR television gave us the March data for that region in the following video:
http://notrickszone.com/2013/04/09/jena-germa...
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35242
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Bitter cold records broken in Alaska
Arctic temperatures above the 80th parallel have been above normal for ~180+ out of the last 230 days. That proves that global warming has arrived.

Actually, that is y u r cold. Extra energy AGW warm fronts push hard into the Arctic, warming the NP. Simultaneously, Arctic cold fronts are pushed south, onto populated southern areas. Arctic cold fronts can be pushed as far south as Mexico, Central America, China & India.

Temperatures are in the minus mid-twenties degC. on the north shores of Hudson Bay. You should be cold. However, temperatures from the southern tip of Greenland to northern Russia are above freezing & as high as +20degC.(+68degF).

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

Since: Dec 08

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#35243
Apr 20, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
Political Opponents? No, Brain, we are you scientific opponents first.
I oppose climate and CO2 taxes. I also oppose government spending on climate change mitigation. We've spent and committed economic disruption in the name of pseudoscience. There's no demonstration, experiment or trial published in a peer reviewed journal for climate change mitigation.

There's almost no consensus for climate change mitigation; some people favor restricting man made carbon dioxide emissions and others favor publicly funded carbon sinks. All favor more research dollars for their own mitigation schemes.

We aren't scientific opponents because we agree experimental tests of climate change mitigation don't exist. We draw different conclusions from that shared knowledge.

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gcaveman1 wrote:
The climate models work pretty well. They were tuned to predict past weather, and so work pretty well in the current situation. They tend to UNDERESTIMATE because these times are very different from past warming episodes.
Here we disagree; they work badly and underestimate as well as overestimate predicted climate change. Tuning climate models for past weather can be as simple as setting up a historic table of dates and events. The models can do whatever you program them too, except forecast future weather. Get real.

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gcaveman1 wrote:
I'm looking for an experiment that shows that you are human, and not just another denierspambot.
I don't care to label opponents; this is where we differ. I'd prefer to deal with arguments, not personality.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#35244
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I oppose climate and CO2 taxes. I also oppose government spending on climate change mitigation. We've spent and committed economic disruption in the name of pseudoscience. There's no demonstration, experiment or trial published in a peer reviewed journal for climate change mitigation.
There's almost no consensus for climate change mitigation; some people favor restricting man made carbon dioxide emissions and others favor publicly funded carbon sinks. All favor more research dollars for their own mitigation schemes.
We aren't scientific opponents because we agree experimental tests of climate change mitigation don't exist. We draw different conclusions from that shared knowledge.
.
<quoted text>Here we disagree; they work badly and underestimate as well as overestimate predicted climate change. Tuning climate models for past weather can be as simple as setting up a historic table of dates and events. The models can do whatever you program them too, except forecast future weather. Get real.
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<quoted text>I don't care to label opponents; this is where we differ. I'd prefer to deal with arguments, not personality.
I'm thinking you're so full of sheet that your eyes are turning brown.
EXXON Pollutes

United States

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#35245
Apr 20, 2013
 

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With huge profits , the unpatriotic polluters refuse to maintain their aging infrastructure and ethics standards ...........In Mayflower , AK , the EXXON thugs find TINS FOR SALE , and hire cops and judges and private eyes to punish reporting of tar sands oil in the streets and in homes , due to broken KEYSTONE like pipes....ONLY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE , corporate lawyers are unscrupulous and unpatriotic...........indict the EXXON managers and enabling lawyers and crooked judges.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35248
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
No, because there is evidence for all of the explanations. They are real, observable phenomena with a known and understood effect on temperatures.
Which makes them quite plausible hypotheses at the moment for why the models significantly overpredicted GAT rise over the past decade+- nothing more. Not proven.

I think we've about wrung this very small point dry now, don't you?
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35249
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
I gave you a straight answer: the chance of observing the temperatures we did was about the same as a double six in dice.
An improbable event, but hardly one that's going to make you think the dice are bent.
Very good - that's right. 2 sigma off the EV predicted by the models, or about 5% likely IF the models are correct and complete.

Your comparison with dice is fallacious. Fair dice are known without doubt to be perfect random generators of a mathematically certain result.

Climate models are no such thing. Very unlikely outcomes over more than a decade now would make ANY OBJECTIVE observer speculate whether the climate models are in facts imperfect, biased, incomplete, or otherwise faulty.

The only reason for perpetuating this silly debate is your incapacity to admit to even the SMALLEST SHRED of the possibility of imperfection in climate models that are being touted as the reason for turning societies upside-down.

I might be willing to admit they are good enough, if not for this stubborn refusal of yours to admit to their imperfection.
TrollBot

Mclean, VA

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#35250
Apr 20, 2013
 

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the Professor wrote:
<quoted text>

(Another tediously juvenile and inane troll snipped)
Troll. Ignore.

"Flagging trolls until Topix lets you killfile the scum."

Since: Apr 08

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#35251
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Which makes them quite plausible hypotheses at the moment for why the models significantly overpredicted GAT rise over the past decade+- nothing more. Not proven.
I think we've about wrung this very small point dry now, don't you?
They were quite plausible hypotheses about three years ago when Climategate made a big thing of "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't".

Well now we have observations and model runs that suggest how we can account for the lack of warming.

I think we've moved beyond a proposed explanation, but no doubt you'll seek to wring this point long after it's dry.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35252
Apr 20, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
you're so full of sheet that your eyes are turning brown.
The eyes of 'lyin' brian' have been brown for decades.

Since: Apr 08

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#35253
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Very good - that's right. 2 sigma off the EV predicted by the models, or about 5% likely IF the models are correct and complete.
Your comparison with dice is fallacious. Fair dice are known without doubt to be perfect random generators of a mathematically certain result.
Climate models are no such thing. Very unlikely outcomes over more than a decade now would make ANY OBJECTIVE observer speculate whether the climate models are in facts imperfect, biased, incomplete, or otherwise faulty.
The only reason for perpetuating this silly debate is your incapacity to admit to even the SMALLEST SHRED of the possibility of imperfection in climate models that are being touted as the reason for turning societies upside-down.
I might be willing to admit they are good enough, if not for this stubborn refusal of yours to admit to their imperfection.
You are still making the same basic error: in assuming that that the models are "correct and complete".

The models actually encapsulate our understanding of the uncertainty of climate.

If the temperatures are within the range of the models, then our understanding of the uncertainty of climate is good.

If temperatures are within the range of models (they are), then we have to ask why some models were better than others in predicting temperatures.

Climate scientists have been doing so for years.

Unfortunately some AGW deniers are too stoopid to follow an intelligent discussion, and prefer to SHOUT on about an alleged conspiracy.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35254
Apr 21, 2013
 

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Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
If temperatures are within the range of models (they are), then we have to ask why some models were better than others in predicting temperatures.
Unfortunately some AGW deniers are too stoopid to follow an intelligent discussion,...
As the models predicted... It is currently snowing in Minneapolis.
Who would have thunkit... Anthropogenic Global Warming would look like Christmas?

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

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#35255
Apr 21, 2013
 
Scientific "proof" is when science says comet hits and asteroid hits are inevitable and eventual but climate science has never said a CO2 climate crisis "will" happen only 27 years of "maybe" and "could be" and.......Science gave us pesticides and made environmentalism necessary in the first place.
A climate crisis "IS" a comet hit of an emergency and thus needs certainty not "maybes" in order for the climate change movement to be sustainable but maybe it's too late?
*REAL progressives know that Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded carbon trading stock markets ruled by corporations and trustworthy politicians.*
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#35256
Apr 21, 2013
 
mememine69 wrote:
Scientific "proof" is when science says comet hits and asteroid hits are inevitable and eventual but climate science has never said a CO2 climate crisis "will" happen only 27 years of "maybe" and "could be" and.......Science gave us pesticides and made environmentalism necessary in the first place.
A climate crisis "IS" a comet hit of an emergency and thus needs certainty not "maybes" in order for the climate change movement to be sustainable but maybe it's too late?
*REAL progressives know that Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded carbon trading stock markets ruled by corporations and trustworthy politicians.*
When we see the signatures of extra-terrestrial impacts all over our planet, during all the Ages of the Earth; when we look to the Moon, Mars, Mercury, and the moons of other planets, and we see the scars and craters remaining through all the eons of their existence; when we witness impacts with the gaseous planets now, using our modern sky-gazing equipment; yes, we know more impacts are inevitable.

But we are not sure that we have ever seen warming on this planet progressing at the rate the current warming is, and we have a pretty firm idea that our actions are causing it. The "maybe" and "could be" is now at the 95% confidence level. You are backing a 5% uncertainty and I certainly hope that isn't the way you place most of your bets.

If so, you're going to lose your ass at the racetrack.

You've already lost your credibility on this thread. Don't ask me to loan you any money to go to the track.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35257
Apr 21, 2013
 

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What is the confidence level of AGW being a bad thing?
COAL IS KING

Paducah, KY

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#35258
Apr 21, 2013
 

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What does it matter if the climate gets warmer?

In my opinion it would be a good thing. All that land in the north that is too cold for crops will be able to grow more food for more people.

Since: Nov 08

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#35259
Apr 21, 2013
 

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New Discovery: NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools Atmosphere

NASA's Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun. The data was collected by Sounding of the Atmosphere using Broadband Emission Radiometry,(or SABER). SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances thought to be playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet’s surface.

Since: Nov 08

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#35260
Apr 21, 2013
 
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35261
Apr 21, 2013
 

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coal is kinking climate wrote:
What does it matter if the climate gets warmer?
In my opinion it would be a good thing. All that land in the north that is too cold for crops will be able to grow more food for more people.
First, all the permafrost must thaw, the bacteria sending trillions of tons of methane into the air. Maybe "coal is kinking climate" can drape millions of square miles of methane trapping tarps on the permafrost & start a new industry. However, that still leaves millions of square miles of methane clathrate thawings in oceans to deal with. "coal is kinking climate" just says, "In for an ounce, in for trillions of tons!"

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