Christian Church opens doors to Muslims

Mar 30, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: BBC News

On a bitterly cold and snowing afternoon in Aberdeen, the doors of St John's Episcopal Church are open to hundreds of Muslim worshippers, arriving for daily prayers.

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341 - 360 of 520 Comments Last updated Aug 28, 2013
Seeker

Billerica, MA

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#349
May 28, 2013
 
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never read his books. But, at your prompting, I believe I will do so.
You should start with "Awareness". That's where he just comes out and says it all. Other books are more saying and things where you are expected to already be at a certain level.
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
At only 56 years old, it would seem a shame that he left. But, the Lord works in mysterious ways and I truly believe this.
I read, on Wiki, "11 years after de Mello's death, in 1998, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, under the leadership of its Cardinal-Prefect Joseph Ratzinger (who later became Pope Benedict XVI), conducted a review of de Mello's work and released a lengthy comment expressing their theological concerns. While the group showed appreciation for many of de Mello's writings, some positions were found to be 'incompatible with the Catholic faith'.
That is true. In fact, people used to ask him why he even bothered remaining a Jesuit priest, and he used to answer, "the church is my home". After you read him, you will understand why he responded that way. If priest were like him, Catholicism would actually do something for someone bedsides teach then mere obedience. But you better be ready to be significantly challenged and be honest with your self and be willing to drop many things that you might think are precious to you, or you will neither grasp, nor like "Awareness". But if you are ready, and at 56 years old, perhaps you are, you will find it to be one of the most profound things you will ever read. If your lucky, it might even change your life, not assuming you need it to change. I think it saved mine, or maybe even my soul, but I can't explain that now.
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
It was seen by many as an attempt by Rome to undermine the clergy in Asia and indicative of widening fissures between Rome and the Eastern Church. Despite the church's concerns, his works are popular, especially among those interested in Ignatian spirituality."
That doesn't surprise me. They have done the same with a number of their best and brightest. That is what they did with Tielhard de Chardin, also.
Another author who may have had some similar roots that led him to a very open view was Paramahansa Yogananda.
I was recently looking into the origins of advanced mathematical theory. THAT was an eye opening revelation into the modern beginnings of monotheistic realization. It was not so much the development of the capacity to love. But, what it did do was to develop a system of schooling that served to open the conscious realization of the depth of Creation and helped foster the development of disciplines and practices that assisted memory, meditation and contemplation.
The result was that when the individual learned to use these tools and then focused his or her effort on the centers of Being, especially Love, the practical results were couched in a ferocious transformation in the presence of Joy.
More power and Light to you, Friend,
And thanks for your direction to Anthony de Mello.
Rev. Ken
Well, I would say you are in for a real treat. But if you have already heard some of the things he says, don't assume you already know what he means or you'll miss the larger meaning he puts together. And it's shockingly simple, not complex at all. That was his genius. Not in giving new information, but in making the intangible as tangible as possible so that you actually "see" it rather than just understand it. Many real life, tangible examples given. Many authors just get wrapped way too much around complexities, and simplicity is genius.

Nice to know that I recommended a book to someone who will actually read it ((chuckles)). Usually, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy. I know you will.
Seeker

Billerica, MA

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#350
May 28, 2013
 

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RevKen wrote:
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Your blanket assertions are unfounded. Your analogy is incorrect.
You are full of hostile Baloney!
I don't think he's entirely incorrect. Maybe not incorrect at all. If you really study Islam, or even better yet, ask ex Muslims why they are no longer Muslim, you might be quite shocked at what you find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

Here's an except, but the whole article is worth reading.

"Quran 3:28 enjoins Muslims not to take the company of non-Muslims over Muslims unless as a means of safeguarding themselves. "Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…"[10] Regarding 3:28, Ibn Kathir, a prominent authority writes, "meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly." He quotes Muhammad's companion, Abu Ad-Darda', who said "we smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them," and Al-Hasan who said "the Tuqyah is acceptable till the Day of Resurrection."[11]

Islamic radicals believe in fast and furious. Moderates believe in slow and steady and a friendly smile when needed. But make no mistake, they all have the same idea in mind. There is no such thing as give to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his in the Quran. Islam is deemed as a complete way of life which includes political and legal aspects. It is Allah's law. Islam is a religion of justice and they perceive injustice, they are commanded to fight. And if they do not have the means to fight, as is the case in western countries, then simple friendly deception will do until they gain more power to fight. But make no mistake, it is always injustice for Allah's laws to not rule a land. How could it not be if it is Allah's laws?

And they will follow the example of their beloved prophet. They have to. And when Muhammad was weak, he made a treaty with the Meccans to buy time to get a bigger army. The treaty was supposed to be for 10 years, but Muhammad had no intention of ever keeping it one moment longer than he had to. After all, was Allah's prophet supposed to be denied rule of the holy Kaaba one moment longer than necessary? It was only designed to lull them into a false sense of security until he could build his army up. So the first year, as part of the treaty, the Meccans cleared out and allowed Muslims to do pilgrimage to the Kaaba for a few days, as per the agreement which required them to do this once per year. And everything went fine the first year. Then, the second year, he showed up with 10,000 armed men and the Meccans had to surrender without a fight. Stupid, gullible Meccans. Then, mister "no compulsion in religion" proceeded right to the Meccans holy spot, the Kaaba, and smashed all of their statues and banned them from ever entering it again unless they became Muslims, and then Muslim rule came down over the land.

This is all very factual and correctly reported by me and you can look it all up for yourself. Muslims love to invent excuses as to why this happened, such as there being conspiracies against Muhammad and Muslims, but again, do you think that Allah's apostle was supposed to wait for 10 years before he could control the Kaaba when instead he could do it much sooner? He never had any intention of keeping that treaty one moment longer than he had to. So naturally, out come all sorts of conspiracies to justify his invasion. This is indeed what happened. So why would we expect anything different from Muslims than to follow the same tactics their beloved prophet followed?

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#351
May 28, 2013
 
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think he's entirely incorrect. Maybe not incorrect at all. If you really study Islam, or even better yet, ask ex Muslims why they are no longer Muslim, you might be quite shocked at what you find.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
Here's an except, but the whole article is worth reading.
"Quran 3:28 enjoins Muslims not to take the company of non-Muslims over Muslims unless as a means of safeguarding themselves. "Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…"[10] Regarding 3:28, Ibn Kathir, a prominent authority writes, "meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly." He quotes Muhammad's companion, Abu Ad-Darda', who said "we smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them," and Al-Hasan who said "the Tuqyah is acceptable till the Day of Resurrection."[11]

He never had any intention of keeping that treaty one moment longer than he had to. So naturally, out come all sorts of conspiracies to justify his invasion. This is indeed what happened. So why would we expect anything different from Muslims than to follow the same tactics their beloved prophet followed?
Hence, the directive given to us by Christ Jesus.

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

The idea that we should give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's is a radical departure from the notion that a theocracy is the only justifiable form of government - and THAT is exactly how the caliphatic theocracy of Islam, both at the local and at the High Council is viewed. There is no allowance for the Five Rights that our Constitution specifically recognizes.

What is this? It is the recognition of personal, individual initiative; the ultimate minority.

This IS at the core of the Teachings of Christ Jesus and the Gospel that He gives to us.

Rev. Ken
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#352
May 28, 2013
 

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Hence, the directive given to us by Christ Jesus.
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
The idea that we should give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's is a radical departure from the notion that a theocracy is the only justifiable form of government - and THAT is exactly how the caliphatic theocracy of Islam, both at the local and at the High Council is viewed. There is no allowance for the Five Rights that our Constitution specifically recognizes.
What is this? It is the recognition of personal, individual initiative; the ultimate minority.
This IS at the core of the Teachings of Christ Jesus and the Gospel that He gives to us.
Rev. Ken
Well now you know the big difference between the two religions and now you understand what the end game of Muslims HAS to be. They have no choice. Whether it's fast and furious like the "supposed" radicals want (who I actually believe are the REAL Muslims), or the slow and steady moderates with a less than genuous warm smile, the goal is the same thing. It HAS to be. You can never have a real Muslim tell you that if Sharia was offered as the law of the land, they would prefer to stick to the current law of the land. If they say that, they are either lying, or they aren't really a Muslim.

It's not about the nice, individual Muslim himself who you might meet, it's about their theology. There's no way around this but everybody just wants to live in denial because this fact is very uncomfortable and disturbing. This is why nobody wants to wake up. But it's there anyway, and there is very little room for any reform of Islam. It is a very very specific religion. There is very little left up to one's heart or conscience or common sense. Instead, it is all spelled out.
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#353
May 28, 2013
 

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Also, Ken, I'm not saying to not be nice to a nice Muslim that you meet, you should be. You're a Christian, and that's what Christians are supposed to do. But as Jesus said, but as innocent as lambs but as wise as wolves, because Islam in general in the west is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and many of them don't even know how to make a good sheep costume.

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#354
May 30, 2013
 
Seeker wrote:
Also, Ken, I'm not saying to not be nice to a nice Muslim that you meet, you should be. You're a Christian, and that's what Christians are supposed to do. But as Jesus said, but as innocent as lambs but as wise as wolves, because Islam in general in the west is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and many of them don't even know how to make a good sheep costume.
You are absolutely right, Seeker.

As representatives of both the Teachings of Christ Jesus and the founding principles of the American Constitution, there are a whole lot of us who are Citizens who haven't the foggiest clue of what either of these sources provide to or demand of us.

And it does not appear of late, that the population is getting any smarter or more well-educated about these. But, never say never and never give up.

When I was a kid, I heard Churchill speak. When that man spoke, he spoke from a point of experience and deliberately held tenets that resonated with the trials, tribulations and triumphs and accomplishments of free men and women everywhere.

He was both intrepid and indomitable.

When you stand with the Teachings of Christ Jesus, knowing what he said and stood for, and if you take the responsibility of citizenship as you are obliged, coming to know the meaning of both sources, your platform of personal integrity cannot be shaken.

Do it. Be it. Take pride in it. Act on it.
Defend and lend your hand to the least among us.

Every day.

Rev. Ken

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#355
Jun 1, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Is is gone or not? Keeps 'em guessing!
Is is?

Rumor has it that the real mods don't care for imposters.

“Alea iacta est!”

Since: Oct 06

Oh it's ON!

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#356
Jun 1, 2013
 

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Ravenclaw wrote:
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Is is?
Rumor has it that the real mods don't care for imposters.
Selicia is a legend in her own mind....

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#357
Jun 1, 2013
 

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Trisha wrote:
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Selicia is a legend in her own mind....
I saw that, someone was kind enough to send me links.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

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#358
Jun 2, 2013
 

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Ravenclaw wrote:
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I saw that, someone was kind enough to send me links.
QUITE FAMOUS on TOPIX!

“Alea iacta est!”

Since: Oct 06

Oh it's ON!

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#359
Jun 2, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>QUITE FAMOUS on TOPIX!
You think you are......more accurate would be infamous. lol!

You're just another troll.
SHADOW

Boerne, TX

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#360
Jun 3, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>QUITE FAMOUS on TOPIX!
If you are going to brag the least you should do is spell it correctly don't ya think.
Definition of INFAMOUS
1: having a reputation of the worst kind : notoriously evil <an infamous traitor>
2: causing or bringing infamy : disgraceful <an infamous crime>
3: convicted of an offense bringing infamy

Now I agree with that!
SHADOW

Boerne, TX

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#361
Jun 3, 2013
 

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Trisha wrote:
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You think you are......more accurate would be infamous. lol!
You're just another troll.
You got her pegged

“Too Ugly to Win”

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Old Hag Hillary

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#362
Jun 3, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>QUITE FAMOUS on TOPIX!
for all the wrong reasons. You are not famous, you are a below average agitator.

“Plays well with others.”

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#363
Jun 3, 2013
 

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fetch almighty wrote:
<quoted text>for all the wrong reasons. You are not famous, you are a below average agitator.
So easy to reel you in...take the bait again and again! GOTCHA!

“Too Ugly to Win”

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Old Hag Hillary

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#365
Jun 3, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>So easy to reel you in...take the bait again and again! GOTCHA!
Hey Sel how is your friend that goes to your church doing on the Trayvon Martin case? I mean really you are the one that said Angela Corey was going to get Zimmerman...now didn't you? Hey you said she was going to put him behind bars and she told you this all in your church. My my.

“Alea iacta est!”

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#366
Jun 3, 2013
 

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SHADOW wrote:
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You got her pegged
Cool...I must be good! I only did a few minutes of searching around to get a feel for her personality. But you know what they say about extreme personality types...they are generally an easy read.

“Plays well with others.”

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LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

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#367
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Zimmerman is going DOWN!!!!

Angela Corey will get the conviction....but IT IS NOT in her jurisdiction. She does go to my church but NEVER speaks to anyone about an active case.
Seeker

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#368
Jun 4, 2013
 

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Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
Zimmerman is going DOWN!!!!
I've never heard a name like Selecia before. Are you African American?

“Plays well with others.”

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#369
Jun 4, 2013
 

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Seeker wrote:
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I've never heard a name like Selecia before. Are you African American?
Then you must not be familiar with the Bible. Celecia and Seleucia are areas where Paul traveled. Read the book of ACTS. It is where Turkey and Syria meet....and LOOK at my picture. Do I look BLACK to you?

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