Patio smoking ban urged

An Ottawa-based group is calling for a ban to end smoking on patios, and local health officials say a similar ban in the city would be a welcome step in the right direction.

[generalsn1234567]

Once the tobacco control lobbyists found gullible lawmakers and got their foot in the door, instead of doing the patios upfront, they'll be back for the patios later, AFTER business owners spend thousands of dollars to build them to accommodate their many smoking patrons. This clearly proves that they have ABSOLUTLY NO CONCERN about local issues or businesses. Read page seven about the "inside out" instructions in their book. It's near the bottom of the page.

http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/CIA_Fundamentals....

Here's where the instructions come from.

http://www.rwjf.org/pr/product.jsp...

[Musician]

Siegel wouldn't agree with these fanatical antis.
Good to have a whistleblower on these idiots.

[Sheri]

Yeah, why not shut down thousands more businesses as they struggle with the short summer season to make up for the winter losses.

[Happy Contented Soul]

Just another good to boycott Canadian products!

[UCantType]

Who cares? Stopping smoking in restaurants didn't stop people from eating out. Stopping smoking on patios won't stop people from going out either. As long as everyone is forced to do it at the same time, it's a good move.

The health reason is bogus, we all know that. But it's a question of whether non-smokers have to suck in the smoke from other people, ruining their enjoyment.

I say ban it everywhere in public spaces. Let the smoking addicts smoke in their own homes and backyards, that's it.

[Ouch]

First I put in thousands of dollars of smoke eaters in my business, then comes the smoking ban, business down 30%, so I build a patio for the smokers also costing thousands of dollars. NOW you want to ban that also. Why not just take a gun and shoot all the small business owners and be done with it..

[UCantType]

You don't think non-smokers use a patio too? Just what kind of business owner are you?

[azmac]

UCantType wrote:

You don't think non-smokers use a patio too? Just what kind of business owner are you?

Why would non-smokers go out with the smokers. What you people are bitching about. We have already lost thousands of business and even more jobs because the non-smokers are not filling the seats as was promised.
If he had a say in how his business was run he would have a non-smoking and smoking sections.

[Ouch]

UCantType wrote:

You don't think non-smokers use a patio too? Just what kind of business owner are you?

I ran a small bar and Grill in New Jersey. and Yes non smokers did use the patio and a BIG BIG sign warned them this patio was put in for SMOKERS and enter at your own risk..

ALL of our customers say they never had a problem with smoking at the bar in the first place.

Most small bars in New Jersey either went out of business or are ignoring the smoking ban and permitting smoking anyway. and guess what the state is NOT enforcing the ban..

[Ouch]

azmac wrote:

<quoted text>
Why would non-smokers go out with the smokers. What you people are bitching about. We have already lost thousands of business and even more jobs because the non-smokers are not filling the seats as was promised.
If he had a say in how his business was run he would have a non-smoking and smoking sections.

we had a smoking and a non-smoking section seporated by a wall and smoke eater throughout the building. NOT good enough for the nanny's who probably never set foot in a bar. then we went and built an nice patio with roof. was a great success with smokers and non smokers who did not care.. Sold the bar and got out while the going was good, see nothing but more trouble from the nanny's trying to run my business.

[Sheri]

UCantType wrote:

You don't think non-smokers use a patio too? Just what kind of business owner are you?

If non-smokers were flooding his business, he wouldn't be down 30%, IDIOT. He is a businessman that doesn't need people like you f'n up his business so that you can maybe one day visit his patio and sip a glass of water with your salad on his patio.

[UCantType]

You don't know what you're talking about. I see plenty of non-smokers still filling the bars and restaurants. The stupid owners were telling us they were all going out of business if we brought in a smoking ban. They're still here. Obviously, they didn't understand their business.

A smoking ban on patios will have the same results. It stops smokers from annoying non-smokers. The end result will be patios filled with both non-smokers as well as smoking-addicts that put up with not getting their fix for an hour.

Really, you guys will go to any ridiculous lengths to keep the status quo. I don't see why we have to pander to addicts anyway. It's their fault they took up smoking in the first place. Nobody forced them to smoke.

[Sheri]

UCantType wrote:

You don't know what you're talking about. I see plenty of non-smokers still filling the bars and restaurants. The stupid owners were telling us they were all going out of business if we brought in a smoking ban. They're still here. Obviously, they didn't understand their business.
A smoking ban on patios will have the same results. It stops smokers from annoying non-smokers. The end result will be patios filled with both non-smokers as well as smoking-addicts that put up with not getting their fix for an hour.
Really, you guys will go to any ridiculous lengths to keep the status quo. I don't see why we have to pander to addicts anyway. It's their fault they took up smoking in the first place. Nobody forced them to smoke.

Unfortunately fo you, this line has been exposed for the lie it is. Smoking bans kill bar business in Ohio, in the UK, in Turkey, in the Netherlands, and in any place where they are forced onto businessmen. You are a liar, and your lies are being exposed.
In the U.K. during past two years 3,382 pubs have closed since their nationwide smoking ban was enacted
.....so far this year they have been shutting at the rate of one every four hours.
Obviously, the drinks industry is quick to blame the economy for the problems but.......the fact that the one thing you cannot do in a smoking room (now) is smoke. There’s no doubt that this has had a profound effect on the licensing trade, and David Cameron must make it a top priority to overturn the ban the moment he takes office. In the meantime, however, publicans must stop whining and carefully study the antismoking rule book to find a loophole.
http://cleanairquality.blogspot.com/2009/02/i...
Cafe owners in Turkey say smoking ban bad for businessLast Updated: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:42:00 +1000
About 1,000 coffee house owners in Turkey have protested against a smoking ban introduced last month.
They called on the government to relax restrictions, saying the smoking ban is bad for business.
Turkey has over 150,000 coffee and tea houses, where men go to chat and play backgammon.
The demonstrators said business had fallen by over 20 percent since the ban took effect on July 19th.
The new law bans smoking in cafes, bars and restaurants, including some covered outdoor spaces.
Turkey is the world's tenth largest consumer of tobacco.
http://australianetworknews.com/stories/20090...

[Sheri]

Court spares small Dutch cafe over smoking ban
A Dutch court on Friday rejected a bid by prosecutors to punish a small cafe for defying the smoking ban, arguing it was too small to be subject to the country’s tough restrictions.
The Victoria cafe, in Breda, near the Belgian border, escaped prosecution demands for a 1,200-euro (1,600-dollar) fine and closure for a month, after the court decided the prosecution was unjustified.
The cafe, run by its owner with no other employees, and others like it were suffering disproportionately from the smoking ban, which came into effect in July 2008.
Several thousand small bars and cafes in the Netherlands united in late 2008 to flaunt the smoking ban and create a joint legal defense fund, arguing that they lacked the floorspace and money to erect separate smoking-only areas.
In its ruling, the court said it was likely that smokers would go to the bigger cafes that could afford separate smoking areas, which could lead to a big drop income for the smaller venues.
http://www.tobacco-facts.net/2009/04/court-sp...
Do smoking bans affect business?
by Jacob Grier on August 19, 2009
If the business is a casino, the answer is likely yes. A new paper from the St. Louis Fed examines the impact of the Illinois smoking ban on casino revenues and attendance as compared to neighboring states without a ban:
Using monthly data for adjusted gross receipts and total admissions at each of Illinois’ nine casinos, we estimate statistical models to explain the pattern of revenue over the period 1997 through 2008. The models include controls for trends, seasonal patterns, regulatory changes and the general pace of economic activity. After controlling for all these factors, we evaluate the remaining change in revenue that is attributable to the Smoke-Free Illinois Act, identifying the effects of the smoking ban by the timing of its implementation.
Our estimate for the effect on total revenue for all nine casinos is representative of our general findings: We estimate that the smoking ban is associated with a 20 to 22 percent revenue decline, amounting to a total loss in casino revenue of more than $400 million
http://www.jacobgrier.com/blog/archives/2630....

[generalsn1234567]

Why didn't they ban the patios in the first place instead of waiting until they were built to accomodate the smoking customers.

[Ouch]

UCantType wrote:

You don't know what you're talking about. I see plenty of non-smokers still filling the bars and restaurants. The stupid owners were telling us they were all going out of business if we brought in a smoking ban. They're still here. Obviously, they didn't understand their business.
A smoking ban on patios will have the same results. It stops smokers from annoying non-smokers. The end result will be patios filled with both non-smokers as well as smoking-addicts that put up with not getting their fix for an hour.
Really, you guys will go to any ridiculous lengths to keep the status quo. I don't see why we have to pander to addicts anyway. It's their fault they took up smoking in the first place. Nobody forced them to smoke.

It may be that way in Canada. but here in the USA and my state New Jersey. many many small bars have gone out of business and like mine it was doing great for 30 years until some idiots come along and say you can not smoke in the building anymore. NEVER went to a vote of the tax payers or anyone else. just some money grabbing politicians made it a law. without ever checking the science of SHS, which they would find is NOT THERE..

I guess you are saying I understood my business for 30 years until I got stupid the day they passed the smoking ban. DAH

[u cannot own me]

UCantType wrote:

Who cares? Stopping smoking in restaurants didn't stop people from eating out. Stopping smoking on patios won't stop people from going out either. As long as everyone is forced to do it at the same time, it's a good move.
The health reason is bogus, we all know that. But it's a question of whether non-smokers have to suck in the smoke from other people, ruining their enjoyment.
I say ban it everywhere in public spaces. Let the smoking addicts smoke in their own homes and backyards, that's it.

if it was good for business they would have banned smoking without force DUH!!

[UCantType]

If you can't deal with a smoking ban, then you should let someone else run your business that can. There are no problems with bars and restaurants here in Ottawa.

Oh, they whined and whined and whined before the ban. But afterwards, all but most incompetent businesses flourished.

The fact is: smoking bans bring non-smokers to businesses that they never wanted to enter before. The trade-off is losing a few hard-core addicts. Good riddance! Those smokers that don't need a constant dose of nicotine 24-7 still go to the bars and restaurants.

[generalsn1234567]

UCantType wrote:

If you can't deal with a smoking ban, then you should let someone else run your business that can. There are no problems with bars and restaurants here in Ottawa.
Oh, they whined and whined and whined before the ban. But afterwards, all but most incompetent businesses flourished.
The fact is: smoking bans bring non-smokers to businesses that they never wanted to enter before. The trade-off is losing a few hard-core addicts. Good riddance! Those smokers that don't need a constant dose of nicotine 24-7 still go to the bars and restaurants.

After the first winter, a lot of small neighborhood bars in my Chicago neighborhood gave up waiting and now ignore the ban, especially now that the the fanfare has faded into history. How long does it take?

[generalsn1234567]

UCantType wrote:

You don't think non-smokers use a patio too? Just what kind of business owner are you?

If it weren't for bans, the newer patios wouldn't exist.