B.C. mom joins fight to ban 15-seat vans

Stella Gurr lost her son Michael, pictured with his girlfriend Melina Ortega, in a 15-passenger van accident in Manitoba in September 2008.

[Nat]

People need to email their MLAs we don't want these vans used by school teams!

[No Interference]

Who cares? It's not a problem if the bus driver can actually drive.

You can't wrap your kids in a plastic bubble all their lives. Grow up, and stop turning your kids into momma-boys!

[Nat]

But they don't have a bus driver they have coach volenteers or parents.

[No Interference]

Do parents not have to take their driver's license test? Maybe they should learn how to drive, before we start banning vans.

[Nat]

This is a vehicle safety issue not a driving issue.

[No Interference]

If they can drive, the vehicle is safe.

[Nat]

The Problem:
Basically because of their design, and relative to passenger automobiles, these vehicles are:

•more prone to loss of control when the vehicles are heavily loaded,
•more difficult to recover after they go out of control, and
•more prone to rollover after a driver has lost control

[No Interference]

I'd bet that all those accidents were caused by incompetent drivers. Again, I say, learn to drive!

[Doncaster_Dido]

As a guy who has actually driven the thing, and as a mechanical Engineer I'll give you my expert opinion.
Its alright to drive it in Dry Weather. But for Winter / Rain, especially the stuff we have here in Canada, it is just Silly.
1. Having weight behind the back wheel is always a bad idea. The further behind the back wheel you put the weight, the more prone it becomes to Fishtailing. This is why Good handling cars have their wheels as close to their respective corners as possible (the Extreme example = F1 cars)
Say we Solved that problem, and these vans had their back wheels moved to the very end. We still have the problem of them being rear wheel drive vehicles.
2.Rear Drive vehicles and Canadian Winters don't mix especially when most of these vans have Open rear diffs. They are just spin outs waiting to happen.
Say we made this vehicle a front wheel drive, would that make this safe?
3. Then you have the problem of High Centre of Gravity. Most Domestic Van platforms shares a lot with their related truck, which gives them un-necessary ground clearance. Just measure the height difference between the bottom of the truck bed and the top of the Seat (in the cab.) You will see that the platform was designed to take load at much lower height at the back. But when you change it into a passenger vehicle, the seats are mounted higher up. Making any high speed highway curve more prone to toppling than any other vehicle.
4. The last and most often overlooked problem is that, most vans have stock tires that are designed mainly for Fuel Economy. They are skinny to reduce rolling friction. People rarely change these. They aren't made for wet / winter conditions especially with a Full Passenger Load.
BC MOM ! I salute you. But there is a 15 seater Van made by dodge called the Sprinter (This is a re badged Mercedes Van which has had an excellent track record in Europe) that you may not want to include in your protest. This particular Van Does address most of the issues I've discussed. I don't work for Dodge or Mercedes. Just was in the Market for a Cargo Van Last Year. It isn't perfect but it is a whole lot safer.

[Doncaster_Dido]

And while I'm at it, will someone tranquilize the dick head from Ottawa.

[No Interference]

Looks like Doncaster needs to learn how to drive too. If you know it drives bad in the snow, then SLOW DOWN. Didn't they teach you how to slow down in driver's education? In Ontario, they taught us that. Actually, we're bright enough to know that ourselves. Maybe you guys from Vancouver should ease up on the crack pipes and take some driving lessons.

[Nat]

So I can only guess that "No Interference" must earn big money renting these monsters out to unsuspecting victims.

[No Interference]

If I was renting them, I'd make sure my "victim" had a valid driver's license. Anywhere but B.C., I presume.

[Nat]

Feds 'negligent' for not warning about passenger vans: B.C. inspector

A British Columbia motor-vehicle inspector and mechanic is accusing Transport Canada of "negligence" for failing to educate the public — particularly the parents of schoolchildren — about the dangers of 15-passenger vans.

"Transport Canada has not issued any recommendations against using these vans. They're passing responsibility to the provinces and the school districts, and I think that's short-sighted thinking," said Bryan Murphy, a licensed vehicle inspector who works as a school bus mechanic and driver with School District 68 in Nanaimo, B.C.

"Transport Canada is negligent in not addressing this issue and bringing it to public attention."

Seven high school basketball students and a teacher were killed in 2008 when their 15-passenger van slammed into a transport truck in New Brunswick.

A coroner's inquest into the tragedy recommended that 15-passenger vans — called "death traps" by a U.S. consumer watchdog agency — be banned for student travel across Canada.

"I don't want to see more blood on our highways before people are finally made aware of the dangers of these vans, but it seems that's what it will take," said Murphy.

Murphy, who represents the Canadian Union of Public Employees on his school district's safety committee, said he has been asked by the union's B.C. leaders to begin a tour of the province, speaking to schools and parents about the threats posed by the vans.

A recent Canwest News Service investigation found that more than half of the school districts in B.C., and many others across Canada, use the vans to transport children to extracurricular events.

Because they were originally designed as cargo vehicles, 12-and-15-seat vans lack the passenger protections, such as reinforced steel frames and laminated side windows, common on many other vehicles, particularly school buses.

They also have a high centre of gravity and are more prone to rollovers than any other vehicle on the road, according to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration .

In recent years NHTSA has issued numerous safety warnings about the vans, which are now banned for the transport of children in more than 30 U.S. states. The U.S. government also prohibits the sale of the vans to schools and daycares.

In Canada, however, only Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Quebec outlaw the vans for school use.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Feds+negligen...

[Caring Mother]

I am 100% with you Nat! I think No Interference should interfere less with this matter, and should go and take better care of His/ Her own child. Unless they don't have a child of their own, which in that case, answers all my questions of why one would be so neglectful to ones child.

[No Interference]

If you want to be good to your children, LEARN HOW TO DRIVE.

All these losers want to blame the vehicle, when the real problem is right behind the wheel!

[Caring Mother]

Unfortunately for you, we have proof and testing to back us up, and what do you have? a repeat button that says "Learn How To Drive Doh!" There is absolutely no reason for you to be commenting on this tread any longer, as you have nothing of importance to say, or anything that anyone wants to hear. We are truely concerned for our children, go take your head out of your own ass, stop thinking only of yourself and start caring more about how your children are safely getting from A to B

[Doncaster_Dido]

Character Analysis No Inteference

No profanity should mean he is Mature.
Don't like the way we raise kids.
Don't like the way people drive these days.
Regional Hatred (from having trouble moving around)

Conclusion
He is most likely a senior Citizen whose done a lot of time behind the wheel of some big rig. Maybe even an Ice Road Trucker.

Well I respect you Old timer. You've done your part to make this country great. These folk are hurting and anxious here. The problem is close to their home. And I've pointed out to you the Scientific Reasons that make this type of vehicle quite a handful. Yes things used to be much worse in the old days, but it was a simpler time. There are more distractions now, and more stress. More Competition. People are living in more and more Crowded Cities.

We are no longer the free range chicken you lived your life as. We are more of the Intensive Farmed Factory Chicken. And so I request you to do us all a favor and DIE ALREADY you UNLOVED, and UNWANTED DINOSAUR.

[No Interference]

Caring Mother wrote:

Unfortunately for you, we have proof and testing to back us up, and what do you have? a repeat button that says "Learn How To Drive Doh!"

Yes, there is proof that some people can't drive. There is nothing wrong with these vehicles. They passed a safety inspection. The problem is the incompetent drivers. Stop blaming objects for your own failures. I bet you never accept any personal responsibility. You're a bad example to your children.

[Nat]

I'm taking personal responsibly I'm not allowing anyone I care about to get into one of those vehicles, but I still think the government needs to change the rules for school field trips. They make the driver have police back-ground checks without any proof of any wrong doing so they can make rules against these vehicles.