Montreal sucks

[Jibo Shah]

I am a visible minority and Anglophone who also speaks french perfectly. I've lived here my whole life and even though I love the city - I can't deal with it anymore - and will leave the second I'm finished university (Engineering). It's only redeeming quality is the inexpensive, high quality university system.

Problems:
1-If your Anglo, you are treated as second class. There are openly racist policies (bill 101, etc.) These carry over to the public service, I speak from experience when I say that speaking in french results in much better service than in English. Also, this gets much worse if you venture into certain de-souche areas of Montreal (ex. East End) and are a visible minority.
2-There is overt racism against anglos, french are often openly hostile to you if you do not speak their language, and even if you do and they detect you as being Anglo, they can be equally antagonistic.
3-The Anglos that remain in Montreal are those who did not leave for Toronto or the US and continue not to leave. Unfortunately, most of the best and brightest left. What's left of the Anglos after a Brain Drain? you be the judge. Although, many bright people still remain around the 2 English universities and in certain industries.
4-Racist policies also carry over to government jobs, where recent audits have revealed that 99% of employees in high levels in the provincial government are franci de-souche. Since Quebec is a largely Socialist Province, you can image how many jobs you will in fact not be eligible for. Unfortunately, Quebec is not just Socialist, it is National Socialist. Further, as an Anglo, your taxes will be the highest in North America to pay all the overpaid de souche government and blue-collar workers.(funny, they've replaced the church with the Government, the founders of the quiet revolution are probably spinning in their graves at the nationalist rather than free-market character it has taken on)
5-Anglos have little to no political clout anymore. This is obvious when one looks at the Liberal Party, which has exactly 0 English cabinet members.
6- No Anglo community. The English Community in Montreal Does not exist. Rather, it is fragmented. There is an English Jewish community, an Italian English community, an English gay community, an Irish English Community, a Greek English community, a yuppy english community (see Plateau). These are insular communities (except the yuppies, but who wants to be a yuppy really?). You cannot join the English Italiam Community unless if you are an Italian, etc... This can be good if you are from one of these groups, but if you are say an ethnic indian, korean, arab, czech, black who only speaks English and only some french, this is horrible, particularly since the french are also antagonistic towards you for being Anglophone. So not only is it impossible to integrate with the existing English groups if you are not only of the above; but you have to deal with french xenophobia.
The Only Hope really, is to move west or south, which so many young highly educated professionals have done and what I will be doing joining the Brain Drain. It's really a shame that Quebec Francophones hold grudges towards anyone who is anglo, even though the ones who ruled them unjustly are not in Toronto anyway. Current Montreal Anglos are largely being scapegoated, and visible minority anglos who don't fit neatly into a anglo-culture group face a double burden of trying to fit into this distinct society. Quebec will undoubtedly pay for this economically, as siphoning off a large % of 1/2 of the educated population of montreal (1/2 the universities are English) CANNOT be good for a city or province economically in the long run.

continued next post...

[Jibo Shah]

continued here...

I suspect the city has been living off the intellectual and tangible capital of its former glory, and that the crumbling infrastructure, record high taxes, bureaucratic corruption are only the beginning of what is to come for this once beautiful and glorious city.
It would be great if 'multiculturalism' became a reality in Montreal as opposed to mere rhetorical ploy to get cheap foreign skilled labour to pay for quebec's growing unskilled de souche bureaucracy.
I would love to stay and help rebuild the city to its former glory and beyond - but I refuse to be treated worse than a leper.

[Jibo Shah]

I am a visible minority and Anglophone who also speaks french perfectly. I've lived here my whole life and even though I love the city - I can't deal with it anymore - and will leave the second I'm finished university (Engineering). It's only redeeming quality is the inexpensive, high quality university system.

Problems:
1-If your Anglo, you are treated as second class. There are openly racist policies (bill 101, etc.) These carry over to the public service, I speak from experience when I say that speaking in french results in much better service than in English. Also, this gets much worse if you venture into certain de-souche areas of Montreal (ex. East End) and are a visible minority.

2-There is overt racism against anglos, french are often openly hostile to you if you do not speak their language, and even if you do and they detect you as being Anglo, they can be equally antagonistic.

3-The Anglos that remain in Montreal are those who did not leave for Toronto or the US and continue not to leave. Unfortunately, most of the best and brightest left. What's left of the Anglos after a Brain Drain? you be the judge.

4-Racist policies also carry over to government jobs, where recent audits have revealed that 99% of employees in high levels in the provincial government are de-souche. Since Quebec is a largely Socialist Province, you can image how many jobs you will in fact not be eligible for. Unfortunately, Quebec is not just Socialist, it is National Socialist. Further your taxes will be the highest in North America to pay all the overpaid de souche government and blue-collar workers.
5-Anglos have little to no political clout anymore. This is obvious when one looks at the Liberal Party, which has exactly 0 English cabinet members.
6- No Anglo community. The English Community in Montreal Does not exist. Rather, it is fragmented. There is an English Jewish community, an Italian English community, an English gay community, an Irish English Community, a Greek English community, a yuppy english community (see Plateau). These are insular communities (except the yuppies, but who wants to be a yuppy really?). You cannot join the English Italiam Community unless if you are an Italian, etc... This can be good if you are from one of these groups, but if you are say an ethnic indian, korean, arab, czech, black who only speaks English and only some french, this is horrible, particularly since the french are also antagonistic towards you for being Anglophone. So not only is it impossible to integrate with the existing English groups if you are not only of the above; but you have to deal with french xenophobia.
The Only Hope really, is to move west or south, which so many young highly educated professionals have done and what I will be doing joining the Brain Drain. It's really a shame that Quebec Francophones hold grudges towards anyone who is anglo, even though the ones who ruled them unjustly are not in Toronto anyway. Current Montreal Anglos are largely being scapegoated, and visible minority anglos who don't fit neatly into a anglo-culture group face a double burden of trying to fit into this distinct society. Quebec will undoubtedly pay for this economically, as siphoning off a large % of 1/2 of the educated population of montreal (1/2 the universities are English) CANNOT be good for a city or province economically in the long run.
I suspect the city has been living off the intellectual and tangible capital of its former glory, and that the crumbling infrastructure, record high taxes, bureaucratic corruption are only the beginning of what is to come for this once beautiful and glorious city.
It would be great if 'multiculturalism' became a reality in Montreal as opposed to mere rhetorical ploy to get cheap foreign skilled labour to pay for quebec's growing unskilled de souche bureaucracy.
I would love to stay and help rebuild the city to its former glory and beyond - but I refuse to be treated worse than a leper.

[Dan 9 months Montreal]

There is very little career development here. Currently, the economy is very bad and there is little "snap" in hiring or production. What can you expect from a province of only 6 million. Best employers like Pifzer and McGill only employ 1600 and 7000, respectively. Other places are relatively tiny boutiques. Most employers are looking for experienced personnel and they don't want to invest in training young enthusiastic workers. I think Montreal needs to do a far better job of attracting and retaining talent.
Living here is OK. I find the people here a bit boring, mostly down to earth, basic mentality. Not too many big thinkers or dreamers with a lot of motivation. I am probably going to return to the US next year, where there are greater career opportunities and more passion for success. In sum, living in Montreal has been a good personal experience but I don't see much of a future in such a slow paced business environment.

[Frederic sui lee]

Frankly guys,I live in Ontario now and Quebec is not more Racist than Ontario.Stop generalization,all Quebecers are not the same.It depend from what region of the province you live.I have live in Quebec all my life until adult age and I can tell you without doubt that regions like the Laurentides region ,saint-Eustache,st-Jerome,Bois briand etc.. are the worst for immigrants or expatriated.

They are almost ethnically homogeneous. Those regions are the breading ground of Quebec nationalism and a tinge of fascism(neo nazi) can also be notice there.No mater how long you live there or how much you contributed, they will ostracize you until you live.They've developed a slick form of ethnic cleansing over there thrust me,its amazing.They tend to push minorities to go west And many young Chinese,Italian,Anglos,Portugu ese are living to take their chance i other part of that big country of Canada.

In other aspect of Quebec, there is many more other very friendly places , but they tend to be more rural and economically poor.Quebec city is my first pic for hospitality,Gaspesy, iles de la Madeleine.Hull is almost like Ontario.Quebec intellectuals and people like to travel to experience other culture are generally very friendly.

Quebec have a lot of contradictions because its also the most tolerant and open minded province in Canada.Sometime I miss living there,because good memories of the past are haunting my dreams, but also nightmare.

I feel both regret and joy to have left that Province

[district 9]

Its not nice to blame Quebec to be racist while the entire country is shifting to the right, the opposit of the rest of the Americas.Since the Liberal party was overthrown by Harper Conservative(fascist), basic privacy rights are raped continuously.The entire country is becoming a police state run by a cyclope big brother.

In Toronto there is no place to hide from Cameras.Even if you are law-obedient and didn't make any crime in your life,you will always be a suspect, especially if you from visible minority.

I think Quebec protect private right a lot more Than Ontario and the rest of the country.

[Gates]

The only Immigrant Quebec PLQ want is the poor Haitians and the sub-Saharan francophone Africans because of their low self estime,lack of pride "Petit negre..oui missier" mentality and they speak a sort of french. French Canadian love to feel superior and they love Africans,even though many of them are very well educated,to flatter their ego as top of the food chain.
Haitians, who are mostly refugees for hunger, are well assimilated because they accept easily the paternalistic aspect of french Canadian culture.

This is why you will find most Chinese,Iranian,Indians, Italians moving to Ontario.

[MontrealSux]

Gates wrote:

The only Immigrant Quebec PLQ want is the poor Haitians and the sub-Saharan francophone Africans because of their low self estime,lack of pride "Petit negre..oui missier" mentality and they speak a sort of french. French Canadian love to feel superior and they love Africans,even though many of them are very well educated,to flatter their ego as top of the food chain.
Haitians, who are mostly refugees for hunger, are well assimilated because they accept easily the paternalistic aspect of french Canadian culture.
This is why you will find most Chinese,Iranian,Indians, Italians moving to Ontario.

You forgot to mention Jews.

[mcgillaspirant]

Jibo Shah wrote:

I am a visible minority and Anglophone who also speaks french perfectly. I've lived here my whole life and even though I love the city - I can't deal with it anymore - and will leave the second I'm finished university (Engineering). It's only redeeming quality is the inexpensive, high quality university system.
Problems:
1-If your Anglo, you are treated as second class. There are openly racist policies (bill 101, etc.) These carry over to the public ..........

hey
I am planning to join mcgill in 2010 and I hear its a great place to learn (many nobel laureates,pulitzer and academy award winners from mcgill) but this discussion has made me rethink my decision.
I dont speak french (but planning to) and I'll be an international student (visible minority)there.as far as jobs are concerned...Is it really bad in montreal.....??
mcgill is a great uni and this discussion only shocks me

[Huge Jazz]

Ptit Christ wrote:

This city sucks. No f**cking jobs and many hypocrite people.

Mmmmmmmm so does your momma.

[Huge Jazz]

district 9 wrote:

Its not nice to blame Quebec to be racist while the entire country is shifting to the right, the opposit of the rest of the Americas.Since the Liberal party was overthrown by Harper Conservative(fascist), basic privacy rights are raped continuously.The entire country is becoming a police state run by a cyclope big brother.
In Toronto there is no place to hide from Cameras.Even if you are law-obedient and didn't make any crime in your life,you will always be a suspect, especially if you from visible minority.
I think Quebec protect private right a lot more Than Ontario and the rest of the country.

Every country, every race, every ethnicity, every religion has it's racists. To think otherwise is to not think at all.

[Mark Oakley]

if your an anglophone leave... there's just no point.

chesk out montreal's ranking

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/16/canadas-be...

[Huge Jazz]

Mark Oakley wrote:

if your an anglophone leave... there's just no point.
chesk out montreal's ranking
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/16/canadas-be...

I agree in the fact that if someone is stubbornly anglophone then yes, there is no need here for the narrow minded purposely ignorant with a superiority complex.

Montreal has been and always will be French first. Either embrace it and learn to deal with it or leave. Same goes for Austrailia in English terms or Spain in Spanish terms and so on.

[Mark Oakley]

"huge jazz" montreal is not french, Thats like saying Sydney is English because we speak english and are decendants of England... your Canadain and you guys speak quebecois not french. go to France,Montreal hell quebec as a whole is nothing like france because your not french... your Canadains who are decendants from france a few hundred years ago. only in Quebec does the stop signs read arreter in france it sais stop in english.

[Huge Jazz]

Mark, do you live in Montreal? May I ask what your connection is with Montreal and Quebec?

[Huge Jazz]

And what language do you speak in Sydney?

[fredcapio]

Huge Jazz wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree in the fact that if someone is stubbornly anglophone then yes, there is no need here for the narrow minded purposely ignorant with a superiority complex.
Montreal has been and always will be French first. Either embrace it and learn to deal with it or leave. Same goes for Austrailia in English terms or Spain in Spanish terms and so on.

A typical Quebecer. Ignorant of history with his provincial attitudes, chauvinism, xenophobia, insular, bigoted, prejudiced and racist doctrine, marred by an pathological inferiority complex. I rest my case !

http://montrealcanada.tumblr.com/

[Huge Jazz]

fredcapio wrote:

<quoted text>
A typical Quebecer. Ignorant of history with his provincial attitudes, chauvinism, xenophobia, insular, bigoted, prejudiced and racist doctrine, marred by an pathological inferiority complex. I rest my case !
http://montrealcanada.tumblr.com/

A typical idiot with internet access jumping to false assumptions and conclusions. I am neither a "Quebecer" or a francophone. You, however, have quite proven your lack of intellegence.

I think what you've just done with this written form of diarrhea is what is called projection. Nothing of what I wrote has anything to do with any of those outlandish opinions you have. And they deserve no further comment by me save for the fact that perhaps you look in the mirror.

If you go to Spain you would accept the need to deal with Spanish. In Germany, German. Italy, Italian. Japan, Japanese. The Swiss have 4 official languages. Canada has two. English and French, regardless of your, no doubt, low opinion of Quebec French.

I have lived here for nearly 5 years and, save for a couple of times, I have been met with courteous and kind people patient with my learning French.

Certainly there are idiots in every language. You would be a fine example.

[Big J]

GO HABS GO ,screw the leafs fan who started this topic

[fredcapio]

Montreal is a disaster
The once-glamorous city is now a corrupt, crumbling, mob-ridden disgrace. What went wrong?
by Martin Patriquin on Thursday, October 29, 2009 Macleans Magazine

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/10/29/montreal-i...

Montreal, a chronically underperforming city burdened by an archaic governmental structure, a bloated public sector (Montreal’s city council has twice as many elected of&#64257;cials as New York City), and what many say is an endemic culture of corruption. More and more of its citizens are taking refuge in the suburbs, while big business continues to &#64258;ee for Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary. Montreal is saddled with the largest debt of any major Canadian city, and its infrastructure is a leaking, potholed mess. It costs 30 per cent more to build a stretch of road in Quebec than anywhere else in the country, and a recent multi-million-dollar water contract was cancelled after its cost ballooned from $154 million to nearly $356 million. The city’s political culture, one of its disgraced former politicians said recently, is hopelessly, institutionally crooked,“infected with gangrene.” Meanwhile, the province’s language hawks are yet again glancing sideways at the supposed creeping English presence among the city’s immigrant populations. The parade of bad news af&#64258;icting what a La Presse columnist once dubbed “a beautifully messy Latin city” has raised the question: how could something so beautiful go so wrong?.....