Ontario, Catholic schools face off ov...

Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances

There are 17 comments on the Canada.com story from Feb 2, 2012, titled Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances. In it, Canada.com reports that:

Bullying has become a major issue in schools across the country. And ways to counter such behaviour have become a battle of their own of late.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Canada.com.

Since: Jan 12

New Port Richey, FL

#1 Feb 3, 2012
my understanding of the catholic school the disputant structure can be quite severe and I think a student would have second thoughts before bulling another student, as much as don't agree with the catholic church on many things I don't think they need to adhere to the governments requests.

Since: Apr 08

Chagrin Falls, OH

#2 Feb 3, 2012
If Catholic schools were private schools then there wouldn't be an issue at all about whether they wanted to support things like gay-straight alliance groups, or if they wanted to do something different with a different name.

However the problem in this particular case is that it is in Ontario, Canada. In Ontario the Catholic schools lobbied the provincial government to be treated the same as public schools with equivalent funding and support from the taxpayers. They won.

So Catholic schools in Ontario are actually a "special" category of public school.

And since they are funded as public schools, by tax dollars, they are required to follow the laws of the province that apply to publicly funded schools.

If Catholic schools don't want to have to follow the public school laws then they should hand back the tax money they've received and become private schools, just like all the other private schools in the province.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#3 Feb 3, 2012
Gay And Proud wrote:
If Catholic schools were private schools then there wouldn't be an issue at all about whether they wanted to support things like gay-straight alliance groups, or if they wanted to do something different with a different name.
However the problem in this particular case is that it is in Ontario, Canada. In Ontario the Catholic schools lobbied the provincial government to be treated the same as public schools with equivalent funding and support from the taxpayers. They won.
So Catholic schools in Ontario are actually a "special" category of public school.
And since they are funded as public schools, by tax dollars, they are required to follow the laws of the province that apply to publicly funded schools.
If Catholic schools don't want to have to follow the public school laws then they should hand back the tax money they've received and become private schools, just like all the other private schools in the province.
The RCC's first priority seems to be $$$.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#4 Feb 3, 2012
simple.... take their public funding... then thay can call it what they really want a we hate homo club.....
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#5 Feb 3, 2012
10:09 am, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Ontario, according to the constitution of Canada, must have separate Catholic schools as also, similarly, Quebec must have an equivalent for Protestants, as I understand it. Read the constitution!
..... The laws of a province have priority over the laws of a church or other belief system. Laws of any belief system apply only to its members, and, as I see it, Catholic schools should be able to restrict its use to Catholics only, even if they are funded by Ontario tax money.
..... If any belief system has the label "Christian" as part of its teachings, then, in my opinions, they must use the teachings of Jesus, and ONLY HIS teachings.
.... Any one can invent a belief system, and many so-called "Christianities" were invented after Jesus had been crucified - these should all be ignored.
Dan

Pewaukee, WI

#6 Feb 3, 2012
QUITTNER wrote:
10:09 am, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Ontario, according to the constitution of Canada, must have separate Catholic schools as also, similarly, Quebec must have an equivalent for Protestants, as I understand it. Read the constitution!
..... The laws of a province have priority over the laws of a church or other belief system. Laws of any belief system apply only to its members, and, as I see it, Catholic schools should be able to restrict its use to Catholics only, even if they are funded by Ontario tax money.
..... If any belief system has the label "Christian" as part of its teachings, then, in my opinions, they must use the teachings of Jesus, and ONLY HIS teachings.
.... Any one can invent a belief system, and many so-called "Christianities" were invented after Jesus had been crucified - these should all be ignored.
As far as I can tell, all "christianities" were invented after Christ was crucified. His crucifixion and ressurection are key components of any "christianity", I believe.
According to you, that means all of them are to be ignored.

Since: Apr 08

Chagrin Falls, OH

#7 Feb 3, 2012
QUITTNER wrote:
10:09 am, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Ontario, according to the constitution of Canada, must have separate Catholic schools as also, similarly, Quebec must have an equivalent for Protestants, as I understand it. Read the constitution!
..... The laws of a province have priority over the laws of a church or other belief system. Laws of any belief system apply only to its members, and, as I see it, Catholic schools should be able to restrict its use to Catholics only, even if they are funded by Ontario tax money.
..... If any belief system has the label "Christian" as part of its teachings, then, in my opinions, they must use the teachings of Jesus, and ONLY HIS teachings.
.... Any one can invent a belief system, and many so-called "Christianities" were invented after Jesus had been crucified - these should all be ignored.
Catholic schools in Ontario were not granted full provincial funding until premier Bill Davis decided to provide it as a parting gesture just before the 1985 election, when he retired from politics.

If they are going to provide full funding to one private school system then they should be providing it for all. Otherwise it is unfair to be giving one private school system preferential treatment while others are required to fund themselves.
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#8 Feb 3, 2012
11:48 am, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Dan, the teachings of a Christ are the only valid "Christianity". Neither the post-Jesus teachings, including the teachings of Paul of Tarsus, nor those of Paul's followers, are the teachings of Jesus.
..... Gay and Proud, the constitution, including the provision of separate Catholic schools in Ontario, is the supreme law of Canada. See, for example,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_school
Thus schools under the separate school system of Ontario are NOT the same as "Private schools". The wikipedia article contains "a separate school is not a parochial or private school, or a charter school."

Since: Apr 08

Chagrin Falls, OH

#9 Feb 3, 2012
QUITTNER wrote:
11:48 am, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Dan, the teachings of a Christ are the only valid "Christianity". Neither the post-Jesus teachings, including the teachings of Paul of Tarsus, nor those of Paul's followers, are the teachings of Jesus.
..... Gay and Proud, the constitution, including the provision of separate Catholic schools in Ontario, is the supreme law of Canada. See, for example,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_school
Thus schools under the separate school system of Ontario are NOT the same as "Private schools". The wikipedia article contains "a separate school is not a parochial or private school, or a charter school."
I'm sure the inclusion of Catholic schools in those documents was more of a grandfathering-clause acknowledging their prominence in the past. Despite that, Catholic schools in Ontario (where I'm from) didn't get full funding until 1985!(Are Catholic schools given full funding everywhere else in Canada? I don't know. But they weren't in Ontario prior to 1985 despite any constitutional statements.)

Regardless if Catholic schools are considered public schools or something else they do receive full funding from taxpayers in Ontario. And Ontario law is very explicit in stating that schools that receive tax funding are expected to abide by specific rules.

So if Catholic schools want to receive tax funding they should follow the rules. If they don't want to follow the rules, they should disentangle themselves from the tax funding and become truly private schools.
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#10 Feb 3, 2012
1:26 pm, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Gay And Proud, the constitution is above any, and trumps, laws of any governments of Canada. My guess is that the additional funding in Ontario for grades 9-13 was an election gimmick, not required by the constitution, and therefore could, maybe, be canceled by any Ontario legislation at any time; but that policy may lose future votes for the party then in power.

Since: Apr 08

Chagrin Falls, OH

#11 Feb 3, 2012
QUITTNER wrote:
1:26 pm, Friday, February 3, 2012:
RE: Ontario, Catholic schools face off over gay-straight alliances
..... Gay And Proud, the constitution is above any, and trumps, laws of any governments of Canada. My guess is that the additional funding in Ontario for grades 9-13 was an election gimmick, not required by the constitution, and therefore could, maybe, be canceled by any Ontario legislation at any time; but that policy may lose future votes for the party then in power.
I agree completely with your explanation.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#12 Feb 3, 2012
Gay And Proud wrote:
If Catholic schools were private schools then there wouldn't be an issue at all about whether they wanted to support things like gay-straight alliance groups, or if they wanted to do something different with a different name.
However the problem in this particular case is that it is in Ontario, Canada. In Ontario the Catholic schools lobbied the provincial government to be treated the same as public schools with equivalent funding and support from the taxpayers. They won.
So Catholic schools in Ontario are actually a "special" category of public school.
And since they are funded as public schools, by tax dollars, they are required to follow the laws of the province that apply to publicly funded schools.
If Catholic schools don't want to have to follow the public school laws then they should hand back the tax money they've received and become private schools, just like all the other private schools in the province.
My son is a public school psychologist and says the laws against bullying are VERY strict. I was glad to hear that.

As for you, I'm sorry you get sort of bullied here for being gay - the Catholics would torture you if given a chance. You have the right to be just the way God made you. Homophobes "claim" it's a sin, but that's only their belief. You don't deserve to be treated with hostility for your sexual orientation - not here, nor anywhere. I wish you peace and love in your life.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#13 Feb 3, 2012
This is exactly why the nuns in the school I attended were dead set against taking any kind of tax money. There would be strings attached to it and the public would have a say in the running of the schools the same way they do with public schools.

Why the RCC thinks they are going to continue to promote bigotry and the taxpayer is going to pay for it escapes me.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#14 Feb 3, 2012
Very well and beautifully said.

Thank you.
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
My son is a public school psychologist and says the laws against bullying are VERY strict. I was glad to hear that.
As for you, I'm sorry you get sort of bullied here for being gay - the Catholics would torture you if given a chance. You have the right to be just the way God made you. Homophobes "claim" it's a sin, but that's only their belief. You don't deserve to be treated with hostility for your sexual orientation - not here, nor anywhere. I wish you peace and love in your life.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15 Feb 3, 2012
SFer wrote:
Very well and beautifully said.
Thank you.
<quoted text>
Much appreciated :) And peace to you, now and always.

Since: Jan 12

New Port Richey, FL

#16 Feb 4, 2012
Gay And Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure the inclusion of Catholic schools in those documents was more of a grandfathering-clause acknowledging their prominence in the past. Despite that, Catholic schools in Ontario (where I'm from) didn't get full funding until 1985!(Are Catholic schools given full funding everywhere else in Canada? I don't know. But they weren't in Ontario prior to 1985 despite any constitutional statements.)
Regardless if Catholic schools are considered public schools or something else they do receive full funding from taxpayers in Ontario. And Ontario law is very explicit in stating that schools that receive tax funding are expected to abide by specific rules.
So if Catholic schools want to receive tax funding they should follow the rules. If they don't want to follow the rules, they should disentangle themselves from the tax funding and become truly private schools.
interesting I didn't know that, there private here
Just Bomb Em

Houston, TX

#17 Jul 8, 2012
Bomb Ontario and Canada would be a far better place. I'd say Quebec too but then that would be cruel to the rest of Canucks when they need somewhere decent to unwind.

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