stay away from WFG
Andrew

Calgary, Canada

#2941 Nov 14, 2009
Alcal wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lame Defence of MLM (pyramid) a business opportunity where more then 90% of recruits fail to earn any money.
(In normal retail you get paid something and are not misled and deceived like MLM.)
"You are likely at the top of the pyramid or perhaps you are promoting MLM as a viable business opportunity! It does not matter as MLM has been proven a failure to most recruits and IBO's ,you must know this."
Also a commisson sales person or a paid employee is not the same as a MLM business owner. In MLM you own your business, MLM is about recruiting and is how to build your business.
You need to listen to the truth , and speak the truth.
Alcal must be a very good and smart businessman for he/she knows how all business runs and payment structures work.

I must ask though since you are so easy to dismantle the business structure of WFG, what would you suggest they do better to improve themselves to your standards? All I see is accusations, but I don't see any suggestions to fix things...

Whats up with that?

I am a paid employee, they charge clients $140/hour for my services. They pay me $30/hour.$110 goes to paying various office expenses and the rest into the shareholders pocket. The major shareholders are the president, vice presidents, branch managers, not the working guy who is actually doing the work. Hell, I have never even met these guys. Does that sound fair to you? I didn't think so but thats what we are brought up to think is acceptable?
The corporate world has this pyramid thing down pat because nobody even questions it....

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Andrew

Calgary, Canada

#2942 Nov 14, 2009
Bruceman wrote:
Here we have yet another case of diciplinary action against a WGS associate, and WGS from 2006.
http://www.securities.utah.gov/dockets/060080...
A few points of interest:
point 7. explains that to be part of WGS, you must first be recruited by WFG.
point 21-26. WGS is accused of failing to properly supervise the associate under investigation.
And, of most concern, WGS PAYS a magazine company to have them put their name and associate on the front cover! Talk about faking success to scam people!
Due to the WILLFUL violations of WFG (pg 11), there was an order to have WGS's license suspended, and a fine NO LESS than $100,000 dollars!
Ther more research I do, the more I believe WFG/WGS is not simply shady, it is a scam in many ways!
Why are people still doing business with theses scumbags! How much more proof do you need?
Stop giving them your time and money!
I am not going to try to deny that there are agents out there doing illegal things. These types of people are everywhere, in almost every company all over the world. This is why agents are forced by law to have things like like Errors and Omissions Insurance. It protects the clients from this exact situation.

If all we want to do is expose scams then have you ever heard of mortgage insurance? I challenge you to read some news on how much every bank is scamming as many people as they can with this product.(CBC has some good articles on their website)
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2943 Nov 16, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not going to try to deny that there are agents out there doing illegal things. These types of people are everywhere, in almost every company all over the world. This is why agents are forced by law to have things like like Errors and Omissions Insurance. It protects the clients from this exact situation.
If all we want to do is expose scams then have you ever heard of mortgage insurance? I challenge you to read some news on how much every bank is scamming as many people as they can with this product.(CBC has some good articles on their website)
I agree that mortgage insurance is a ripp off. Insurance in general is a rip off, and it should be regulated by the government. But you almost always need mortagage insurance, there is no way around it. So the best thing to do is shop around to get the best deal.

Same goes with other financial services, shop around. That is why I don't think anyone should go with WFG. While every company has something bad with it, there is still a hierarchy. WFG is at the bottom compared to other services. That much is painfuly clear.

The argument that "every company has bad people" doesn't really clear WFG's name. WFG is more than simply a few bad apples, the whole system is flawed, and it promotes bad service, ethics, inconsistency, and failure. There are no education standrads for agents, they simply memorize scripts and pitches, then sell. NOT a good combination with insurance.

That petition from Utah is ordering actions against WGS, the organization, NOT just the individual. And this is not the first time WGS has had fines against it. So again, this is not just a few individuals doing illegal activities, it is the WHOLE orgainization!

At least most other firms (especially non-MLM) strive toward higher consistent higher standards. The fact that non-MLM hires people based on appointment and qualifications is fact enough to put them higher than WFG.

Look at the big picture. To me, one of the biggest concers is that WFG associates have NO prior education or expereince in finance. They do not hold series 7 and 63 licenses, and are NOT CFPs. They offer limited products (most are mediocre products at best) which most agent don't fully understand, and are comission based. So why would I do business with them?

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Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2944 Nov 16, 2009
minesoriginal wrote:
Life insurance is a scam anyway! They cannot insure that I will not die. How is what any of the afore mentioned companies any different from telemarketers, door-to-door salesmen, or a religion for that matter? They all pester you for your money by tracking you down, pitching an unrealistic view on reality, guilt tripping you into thinking it's a great idea then asking "do you have any family or friends?" that way they can use your name and make it seem even more "comfortable" it makes me sick. If people are interested they will come to you, stop pushing your crap on families who have less to give away and even more to lose.
I couldn't of said it better.
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2945 Nov 16, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Alcal must be a very good and smart businessman for he/she knows how all business runs and payment structures work.
I must ask though since you are so easy to dismantle the business structure of WFG, what would you suggest they do better to improve themselves to your standards? All I see is accusations, but I don't see any suggestions to fix things...
Whats up with that?
I am a paid employee, they charge clients $140/hour for my services. They pay me $30/hour.$110 goes to paying various office expenses and the rest into the shareholders pocket. The major shareholders are the president, vice presidents, branch managers, not the working guy who is actually doing the work. Hell, I have never even met these guys. Does that sound fair to you? I didn't think so but thats what we are brought up to think is acceptable?
The corporate world has this pyramid thing down pat because nobody even questions it....
In the corporate world people receive compensation based on skills, knowledge, and education. People receive poisitions based on appointment, rather than by simply recruiting. Recruiting is upward in the corporate world, not outward. In the corporta world there is one department for recruitment, in MLM evryone has to recruit.

While there is someone at the top making more money than you, you are paid a guaranteed salary based on your qualifications and skills. This is very different from MLM which compensates those who recruit the most.

And guess what? When your motivation for income is recruitment, do you think you will screen to get the best candiate? NO, you will try and recruit any friend or family member, because the more people under you, the more you make! Who cares if they don't know anything about finance, they just need to copy my sales pitch! That is the dream of WFG, to have a whole team of agents under you. The dream is not to be the best agent out there with the best qualifcations and education. That is what non-MLM agents dream of, and that's what creates competition, and that's why you get better qaulity in non-MLM.
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2946 Nov 16, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Alcal must be a very good and smart businessman for he/she knows how all business runs and payment structures work.
I must ask though since you are so easy to dismantle the business structure of WFG, what would you suggest they do better to improve themselves to your standards? All I see is accusations, but I don't see any suggestions to fix things...
Whats up with that?
I am a paid employee, they charge clients $140/hour for my services. They pay me $30/hour.$110 goes to paying various office expenses and the rest into the shareholders pocket. The major shareholders are the president, vice presidents, branch managers, not the working guy who is actually doing the work. Hell, I have never even met these guys. Does that sound fair to you? I didn't think so but thats what we are brought up to think is acceptable?
The corporate world has this pyramid thing down pat because nobody even questions it....
As for the WFG business structure, let's start with higher qualification standrds for their agents, more rigorous supervision of agents, and better background checks of potential agents. Compensate and appoint based on knowledge, skills, and education, not recruitment. They could also implement a customer feedback system, offer more products, and offer fee based service. They should also pay for all employee expenses, and should be completly transparent.
Andrew

Vancouver, Canada

#2948 Nov 16, 2009
Bruceman wrote:
<quoted text>
In the corporate world people receive compensation based on skills, knowledge, and education. People receive poisitions based on appointment, rather than by simply recruiting. Recruiting is upward in the corporate world, not outward. In the corporta world there is one department for recruitment, in MLM evryone has to recruit.
While there is someone at the top making more money than you, you are paid a guaranteed salary based on your qualifications and skills. This is very different from MLM which compensates those who recruit the most.
And guess what? When your motivation for income is recruitment, do you think you will screen to get the best candiate? NO, you will try and recruit any friend or family member, because the more people under you, the more you make! Who cares if they don't know anything about finance, they just need to copy my sales pitch! That is the dream of WFG, to have a whole team of agents under you. The dream is not to be the best agent out there with the best qualifcations and education. That is what non-MLM agents dream of, and that's what creates competition, and that's why you get better qaulity in non-MLM.
I hate to say it, but you are clearly misinformed about the way the corporate world runs. It is not what you know it is who you know in order to advance. Regardless of how good you are someone else determines that you are worth a certain amount of money, no more, no less, regardless of your performance.

And for the record, WFG agents are not compensated by the amount of recruits they get. I don't know where you pulled this outlandish claim. Actually they get no money from recruiting people. Recruiting people is acutally a waste of money unless they are serious about getting their license. In order to actually receive a license (regulated by the provincial government) you must also produce a criminal record check. There is compensation, however, from training new people.

Also please note your comment about "the dream". Regardless what business you are in the dream is NEVER to be the best at your trade. You want people way BETTER than you working for you. You just manage and mentor them. That's Business, and that is how you make money.
manzanito41510

Richmond, CA

#2949 Nov 16, 2009
so yeah i can see every one valid points so heres mine . . . alot of you have tried and failed and i feel for you but go back to nine to five and live in the comfort of society because youll never amount to anything . . . regardless of whethere this an mlm or a pyramid or whatever you wanna call it ... it doesnt matter cus lifes a bitch and society as a whole especially america is the biggest scheme and pyramid there is ., . . cus no matter how manu poeple there is only president and everything is bussiness . . . medecine to save your life money . . . food to feed yourself and your children money . . . car to move around money . . . and even when u make money the government takes some of it . . . so no matter what happens we are all stupid for giving society the government and money such value . . . come on people its a fucking piece of paper . . .
Andrew

Vancouver, Canada

#2950 Nov 16, 2009
Bruceman wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the WFG business structure, let's start with higher qualification standrds for their agents, more rigorous supervision of agents, and better background checks of potential agents. Compensate and appoint based on knowledge, skills, and education, not recruitment. They could also implement a customer feedback system, offer more products, and offer fee based service. They should also pay for all employee expenses, and should be completly transparent.
So you are saying that going down the the police station to get a criminal record check is not a good enough background check? Alright well I must admit if someone can fool the cops they are probably going to fool World Financial Group as well. Now you are trying to tell me to go charge fees to clients? Are you nuts? Does that make any sense at all? Sure we might not be the highest paid in the industry but at least we are not charging clients who can't afford it...

Jeepers, you are lucky topix allows you to post statements like this, you obviously have no experience in business and have no idea about anything your talking about.... OH WAIT this is a public forum where anyone can say anything no matter how misinformed they are.
Andrew

Vancouver, Canada

#2951 Nov 16, 2009
Bruceman wrote:
<quoted text>
I couldn't of said it better.
I hope your spouse and children read this knowing you don't care about them enough to protect them in case you died and are no longer providing for them..... sad state of affairs you both are
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2952 Nov 17, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying that going down the the police station to get a criminal record check is not a good enough background check? Alright well I must admit if someone can fool the cops they are probably going to fool World Financial Group as well. Now you are trying to tell me to go charge fees to clients? Are you nuts? Does that make any sense at all? Sure we might not be the highest paid in the industry but at least we are not charging clients who can't afford it...
Jeepers, you are lucky topix allows you to post statements like this, you obviously have no experience in business and have no idea about anything your talking about.... OH WAIT this is a public forum where anyone can say anything no matter how misinformed they are.
WFG does not do adequate background checks, that is why the MFDA and other regulatory boards have reported that WFG has hired memebers who have PREVIOUS CRIMINAL BACKGROUNDS. WFG agents services said (after I contacted them) the 125$ is a memebership agreement fee, NOT a background check.

Well hey, I'm never said I know everything about business, those are some suggestions I gathered from research I was doing, I know there is merit behind the suggestions. Maybe having fee based service would mean better qualified agents, and no motivation by the agent to simply sell a product to make comission. I'm sure WFG clients are paying for their agents comission, and it may be cheaper to pay for adivce right off the bat, and save on the ridiculous comission that is payed on top of the product long term.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to point out the obvious flaws with WFG, and provide evidence in support, whcih I have done. I am not the one selling life insurance, I'm not the one on trial. People can decide for themselves if the evidence I provide is useful.

So yes, I don't have any experience in business, but at least I have enough expereince to not get involved in MLM, and especially one so bad as WFG.That's not just my opinion, look at the unbiased reports and articles. You must have negative business experience if you think MLM is a good "business opportunity".

So if you are so much more business minded, please how would you improve WFG? Can you address all the suggestions I made, or do you simply select the ones you think you have an argument against?

Anyway you look at it, your attempt to deflcet attention away from WFG and the issues brought up by attacking me simply prove my point further. Again, I'm not the one doing business with clients.
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2953 Nov 17, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope your spouse and children read this knowing you don't care about them enough to protect them in case you died and are no longer providing for them..... sad state of affairs you both are
I'm not married, and I don't have kids. If, and when I do I will get life insurance, out of necessity. As of now I have life and disability insurance with my employer, and could extend it to cover spouse and children.

If you have a family, who are you to judge? You are defending MLM and WFG. The worst business to be involved with when you have a family that depend on you. WFG puts families into the poor house regularly, both as clients and associates. Read the disciplinary hearings, and people's stories. Get informed.

Unless you have equally convincing evidence to counter my arugments, then I'm guessing you are simply trying to justify your decision to get involved with WFG. People make mistakes, learn from them.

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Undecided

Toronto, Canada

#2954 Nov 17, 2009

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Alcal

Calgary, Canada

#2955 Nov 17, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Alcal must be a very good and smart businessman for he/she knows how all business runs and payment structures work.
I must ask though since you are so easy to dismantle the business structure of WFG, what would you suggest they do better to improve themselves to your standards? All I see is accusations, but I don't see any suggestions to fix things...
Whats up with that?
I am a paid employee, they charge clients $140/hour for my services. They pay me $30/hour.$110 goes to paying various office expenses and the rest into the shareholders pocket. The major shareholders are the president, vice presidents, branch managers, not the working guy who is actually doing the work. Hell, I have never even met these guys. Does that sound fair to you? I didn't think so but thats what we are brought up to think is acceptable?
The corporate world has this pyramid thing down pat because nobody even questions it....
ANDREW

Bruceman's explanation pretty much sums up the
WFG/Aegon FAULTY "MLM business opportunity".
Heres a short cut for answers to your questions. www.pyramidschemealert.org www.mlm-thetruth.com/
Undecided

Toronto, Canada

#2956 Nov 17, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
And for the record, WFG agents are not compensated by the amount of recruits they get. I don't know where you pulled this outlandish claim. Actually they get no money from recruiting people. Recruiting people is acutally a waste of money unless they are serious about getting their license. In order to actually receive a license (regulated by the provincial government) you must also produce a criminal record check. There is compensation, however, from training new people.
Seem like this is just a play on words. In order to train people, you have to hire or recruit them first.
Undecided

Toronto, Canada

#2957 Nov 17, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Also please note your comment about "the dream". Regardless what business you are in the dream is NEVER to be the best at your trade. You want people way BETTER than you working for you. You just manage and mentor them. That's Business, and that is how you make money.
Unfortunately your reputation is built on being the best. Being the best gets you business!!!

So why would a person who is obviously better than you want to work for someone who is inferior?
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2958 Nov 17, 2009
Undecided wrote:
<quoted text>
Seem like this is just a play on words. In order to train people, you have to hire or recruit them first.
Exactly. WFG is MLM, the only way to make significant amount of income is to have a huge team under you selling and recruiting. Recruiting is an ongoing process because people quit so frequently you constanlty need new recruits to replace the old.

The only way you go from a training associate to an MD is through recruitment. That's why WFG is so focused on recruiting (go to a BPM), and why every associate is expected to constantly make appointments to recruit. And hopefully, out of all the appointments a handful will bite, and join. Thus the cycle continues, and the rich on the top get richer.
Bruceman

Edmonton, Canada

#2959 Nov 17, 2009
Undecided wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately your reputation is built on being the best. Being the best gets you business!!!
So why would a person who is obviously better than you want to work for someone who is inferior?
One of the biggest issues with WFG, and MLM for that matter. Position in the company is NOT appointed based on qualifications or skills. As long as you can convince enough people to join and stick with it for 3- 5 years because "you have to fail first before you succeed", you can be the boss!
Andrew

Vancouver, Canada

#2960 Nov 17, 2009
Undecided wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately your reputation is built on being the best. Being the best gets you business!!!
So why would a person who is obviously better than you want to work for someone who is inferior?
Thats a good question and I thank you for asking it. Business is not about being the best at some task, its about surrounding yourself with a team of people who are the best at their own thing that benefits you.
It all depends on the person but some people enjoy being the best at something. Those are the people you want to work for you! Right?

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Undecided

Toronto, Canada

#2961 Nov 18, 2009
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats a good question and I thank you for asking it. Business is not about being the best at some task, its about surrounding yourself with a team of people who are the best at their own thing that benefits you.
You still Fail to answer the question. Business is indeed being about the best at something. If you are not the best at something, why would people want to work for you!?!

For Example, If you are not good at selling insurance, why would someone who is very good at selling insurance want to work for you? What have you got to offer them?

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