Online schools add teachers, students...

Online schools add teachers, students | The Columbus Dispatch

There are 91 comments on the Columbus Dispatch story from Jul 10, 2011, titled Online schools add teachers, students | The Columbus Dispatch. In it, Columbus Dispatch reports that:

The state's largest online charter school will hire 100 new employees - 75 of them teachers - as enrollment surges there.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Columbus Dispatch.

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missskeptic

Columbus, OH

#81 Jul 11, 2011
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
The error in your statements is that you keep saying that an individual received the revenue of two entire companies with many employees. The CEO of Nationwide Insurance or Cardinal Health or Wendy's or wherever else does not receive the entire revenue that his (or her) company earns each year. This is not that difficult.
Lager's companies are paid to provide services to ECOT. Traditional schools pay companies for textbooks, food service, busing and all kinds of other stuff. I wouldn't say that any of those companies' CEOs were making a salary of whatever revenue the school was paying the company.
I novation has 5 employees, which I'm pretty sure is a lot fewer than Wendy's or Cardinal Health. So I would guess that Mr. Lager is taking a large percentage of that money.
Anon

Grove City, OH

#82 Jul 12, 2011
Old Timer wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly the point of why these students are failures. They are gaming the system, going back and forth, and the "winner of the cash" is the online school. The example of the honor college student who was an online student is an exception, and on this blog, might even be a falsehood. The "choice" is not to be successful, but to game the system.
And where exactly did they learn that? Could it be the public sector unions who consider black to be white, and up to be down? Somebody taught them. Considering children begin that indoctrination process at age 5, I'm guessing that dues-paying members are a good guess.

When they see teachers out for the entire week of Thanksgiving, splitting a few days before Christmas break, taking a month off here and there for elective surgeries, and still 'working to the rule' to bully the Board to get what they want, they learn by example, in this case. The kids know that Teach didn't just happen to get sick that Monday and Tuesday of Thanksgiving week. They can tell when she gets back to work she had boob job, even though that could have been put off until summer break.

Some of us would like our children to understand how to work within a given paradigm. Unfortunately, they learn what they're taught.

Could be a good reason for on-line education.
Anon

Grove City, OH

#83 Jul 12, 2011
omg4325 wrote:
It is really sad that I replied to all of this with the praise of my daughter. I am so very proud of her and hopes she continues to have a very bright future. Who I fell sorry for are people who want to make there students feel like they are failures because of where they went to school.That they are lazy and just want a easy way out. My daughter was a Honor student, passed the 10th grade OGT the first time.She also has recieved 3 scholarships for college. Not bad for a lowly ECOT graduate.Please don't judge all of these students the same.
You're trying to talk to you union-trained and -employed people here. Don't beat yourself up over it. They don't have a clue what competition is, how to inspire children which might lead to competition in the classroom.

Outside of the classroom they're facing competition, now, and they don't know how to handle it. They can't rise to that challenge because they were trained in union-run schools where everybody gets the same grade so Teach doesn't have to spend extra time with those who are behind.

And you can bet your rosy-red and mine that they'll never accept that they are responsible for this competition. If the union would actually allow them to do their jobs, they wouldn't be facing this. But because their first loyalty is to the union, and a good teacher makes so many of them look bad, there is no such thing as a good teacher any longer.

Hence, competition, and the population shift out of public schools to rival the Diaspora.
woke

Columbus, OH

#84 Jul 12, 2011
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
And where exactly did they learn that? Could it be the public sector unions who consider black to be white, and up to be down? Somebody taught them. Considering children begin that indoctrination process at age 5, I'm guessing that dues-paying members are a good guess.
When they see teachers out for the entire week of Thanksgiving, splitting a few days before Christmas break, taking a month off here and there for elective surgeries, and still 'working to the rule' to bully the Board to get what they want, they learn by example, in this case. The kids know that Teach didn't just happen to get sick that Monday and Tuesday of Thanksgiving week. They can tell when she gets back to work she had boob job, even though that could have been put off until summer break.
Some of us would like our children to understand how to work within a given paradigm. Unfortunately, they learn what they're taught.
Could be a good reason for on-line education.
Let me get this straight. YOU are trying to BLAME union teachers for the failures of for profit charter school with no union teachers?

That's hysterical and right out of Karl Rove's playbook. Maybe our governor has a copy of his playbook??

Tactic #1: Take the Offensive

Tactic #2: Attack Your Opponent’s Strengths

Tactic #3: Accuse Your Opponent of What He/She is Going to Accuse You Of

Tactic #4: Go Negative, Then Cry Foul

Tactic #5: The “Big Lie”(tell it, repeat it over and over)

Tactic #6: Appeal to Moral Values (though you have none yourself)

Tactic #7 Sell the Persona

Tactic # 8: Sell an Adolescent Worldview

Tactic #9: Exploit the Media

Tactic #10: Create Straw Issues

Tactic #11: Employ Surrogates (to do your smearing/dirty work)

Tactic #12: Use Emotional Appeals

Tactic #13: Rely on Expert Testimonials

Tactic #14: Rhetorical Devices

• Misrepresenting a person's position and presenting it in a form that people will reject
•* Take your opponent’s words out of context
•* Three-Card Monte
•* Shift the argument
•* Personal Testimonials
•* Ignore/Downplay the Evidence
•* Substitute Fact for Truth
• Evasive Rhetorical Devices
- Jokes
- Truistic answers
- Diversions
-- Talk in Vague Generalities
-- Ignore the Main Point

Tactic 15: Use of Language
- newspeak
- Code Words

http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/...
woke

Columbus, OH

#85 Jul 12, 2011
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
You're trying to talk to you union-trained and -employed people here. Don't beat yourself up over it. They don't have a clue what competition is, how to inspire children which might lead to competition in the classroom.
So then, explain why for profit, eschool charters without union teachers graduate 35%, less than half than traditional public schools (75%).

http://innovationohio.org/wp-content/uploads/...

Then, explain why the states with union teachers score above average in every catagory while states with "right to work for less" non union teachers score below average.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/stateprofiles/sre...

I can see why you call yourself anon......spewing those hateful and discredited lies about union teachers on a thread about the failures of non union, for profit, eschool charters which have donated millions of dollars to avoid being held accountable by our legislature.
Anon

Grove City, OH

#86 Jul 12, 2011
woke wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me get this straight. YOU are trying to BLAME union teachers for the failures of for profit charter school with no union teachers?
That's hysterical and right out of Karl Rove's playbook. Maybe our governor has a copy of his playbook??
Tactic #1: Take the Offensive
Tactic #2: Attack Your Opponent’s Strengths
Tactic #3: Accuse Your Opponent of What He/She is Going to Accuse You Of
Tactic #4: Go Negative, Then Cry Foul
Tactic #5: The “Big Lie”(tell it, repeat it over and over)
Tactic #6: Appeal to Moral Values (though you have none yourself)
Tactic #7 Sell the Persona
Tactic # 8: Sell an Adolescent Worldview
Tactic #9: Exploit the Media
Tactic #10: Create Straw Issues
Tactic #11: Employ Surrogates (to do your smearing/dirty work)
Tactic #12: Use Emotional Appeals
Tactic #13: Rely on Expert Testimonials
Tactic #14: Rhetorical Devices
• Misrepresenting a person's position and presenting it in a form that people will reject
•* Take your opponent’s words out of context
•* Three-Card Monte
•* Shift the argument
•* Personal Testimonials
•* Ignore/Downplay the Evidence
•* Substitute Fact for Truth
• Evasive Rhetorical Devices
- Jokes
- Truistic answers
- Diversions
-- Talk in Vague Generalities
-- Ignore the Main Point
Tactic 15: Use of Language
- newspeak
- Code Words
http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/...
Paranoid, are we? Personally, I don't think charter schools have been around long enough to make a sound judgement, and certainly that goes for on-line education. I'm willing to give them same 40 years we've given the union. I suspect the poorest students have been dumped into these venues by circumstances beyond their control i.e. the apathy of the public system, therefore we're not looking at a proper sampling.

But the when the competition ( public schools ) is the only judge and jury, I do consider the conclusion they draw to be suspect.

Play defense all you want, honey - you should be used to it by now.
woke

Columbus, OH

#88 Jul 12, 2011
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Paranoid, are we? Personally, I don't think charter schools have been around long enough to make a sound judgement, and certainly that goes for on-line education. I'm willing to give them same 40 years we've given the union. I suspect the poorest students have been dumped into these venues by circumstances beyond their control i.e. the apathy of the public system, therefore we're not looking at a proper sampling.
But the when the competition ( public schools ) is the only judge and jury, I do consider the conclusion they draw to be suspect.
Play defense all you want, honey - you should be used to it by now.
No, I'm not paranoid at all, just a realist who relies on FACTS rather than political posturing, hyperbole, namecalling, insults and misinformation to make a point.

The FACTS about the FAILURE of charter schools are in, time YOU woke up too, cause it's never too late>

Prof. RAVITCH: Well, charter schools originally were the idea of Albert Shanker, who was the president for many years of the American Federation of Teachers, which is a teachers union.
And his idea was that a group of teachers could say to their colleagues: Let us start a small school, with your permission, and we will go out into the streets, recruit the kids who dropped out, recruit the kids who are about to drop out, and let us see what we can do to come up with ideas that will help make public education better. And it'll be a collaborative venture.
That was the original idea. What has happened - and also why Shanker himself turned against his idea a few years after he proposed it - is that it has become an enormous entrepreneurial activity, and the private sector has moved in and is - it's now become a vehicle for privatization.
And so there are now charter chains, where the executives are paying themselves $300,000,$400,000,$500,000 a year. They compete with regular public schools. They do not see themselves as collaborators with public schools, but as business competitors. And in some cases, they actually want to take away the public school space and drive the public school out of business.
So it's very different from the idea, as it started, and charter schools in cities like New York and in other schools, where the charters are co-located in public buildings, have become a source of dissention and conflict, setting parent against parent.

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Diane Ravitch, and she's a historian of education, former U.S. assistant secretary of education in the Bush administration, and she's now a research professor at NYU's Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and Human Development. Her latest book is called "The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice are Undermining Education."

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/trans...

Despite spending MORE per student, for profit charter eschools in Ohio average 35% graduation rates compared to traditional public schools that graduate 75% of their students, despite

http://innovationohio.org/wp-content/uploads/...
Anon

Grove City, OH

#89 Jul 13, 2011
woke wrote:
<quoted text>
Prof. RAVITCH: Well, charter schools originally were the idea of Albert Shanker, who was the president for many years of the American Federation of Teachers, which is a teachers union.
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/trans...
Despite spending MORE per student, for profit charter eschools in Ohio average 35% graduation rates compared to traditional public schools that graduate 75% of their students, despite
http://innovationohio.org/wp-content/uploads/...
Project much, do we? I don't need to call you names because you'll never frustrate me to the point that I lose control. I have two halves of a fully-formed brain to rub together.

Let's just presume that the concept of charter schools was to save drop-outs. Aren't they still doing that? Not to your satisfaction, obviously, but most articles and comments indicate that the kids who enroll in these schools already have public school experience that didn't work out well for them. Believe it or not, one size does not fit all in the arena of education.

While you're worried about how much the CEOs of the companies running these schools make, lets add up the salaries of ALL 612 school system superindentants in Ohio and compare which is the better deal. And let's not forget the state super, too.

In SWCS alone, the super clocks out at over $200K including salary and bennies. He gets a $700 a month car allowance, his health, life and liability paid for by taxpayers, cell phone, pick up on the pick up just to name a FEW of his bennies, and this past year an unprecidented 5 year contract. That's for making sure less than 20,000 kids 'graduate.' He ran an extortion campaign based on cutting services that were already paid for by taxpayers, AND he implemented a grading system that dropped the grad rate once again. Now, he's trying to start a program that is focused on education. Isn't that what he was supposed to be doing all along?

Of course, charters and onlines compete with public schools, the entire basis of my arguement. The public system has become so stagnant, it could crumble and blow away and no one would notice. While the public schools are ACTIVELY attempting to prevent the charters from moving via refusing to rent school space to them, they're still growing in numbers and popularity.

Frankly, I'd like to keep what we have as a base and merely make conversion schools out of them. Ohio is one of the few states in the union that has that option. For whatever reason, it hasn't been employed. Hence, we have SB5 to do the deed instead.

You rely on all of the research done by educators, paid for by unions and meant for nothing but to sway voters for more money, and I'll rely on graduation and remediation rates. Remediation rates are the one thing that can't be fudged. Universities must report how many kids they are taking remedial classes. The systems attempt to change the reporting method from an individual school district to by university worked for 1 or 2 years. Thats changed again, and now universities are reporting how many kids from district A, B or C are in remediation. It may take awhile to add up how many kids from all State Universities came from District A, B or C, but that's what reporters are for.

You keep spouting all the 'facts and figures' reported by union studies you can find and you'll prove yourself to be the educator you acutally are. When you get around to the critical thinking part of the program, you might find an audience.
woke

Columbus, OH

#90 Jul 13, 2011
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>You keep spouting all the 'facts and figures' reported by union studies you can find and you'll prove yourself to be the educator you acutally are. When you get around to the critical thinking part of the program, you might find an audience.
UNION studies?

The NPR interview is with BUSH43 appointee and as Asst. Sec of Ed, who helped implement NCLB, vouchers and charters and has recognized their FAILURE. I suggest you might want to READ what she has to say, unless your mind is already made up (ie closed) to any info other than what you've been TOLD to believe.
>>
GROSS: So many of the public schools are such a mess now in terms of learning and safety that, you know, a lot of people say just, like, blow up the system. You can never fix this system. So, like, blow it up and start from scratch, or blow it up and privatize it. But don't expect to really reform the public school system because there's too much bureaucracy to do it. You just can't make change in an effective way. What do you say to that?

Prof. RAVITCH: You know, I have friends from some of my conservative think-tank days who believe that. Those friends, of course, went to very elite boarding schools and sent their children to elite boarding schools, where class sizes were 12 to 15. And they were paying, of course, lots more than most people pay for public education.
I think that is a dramatic overstatement, and I would refer you to the latest Gallup poll about public education. The public has been so bombarded for so many years about how terrible public education is that there's a very low estimate of public schools. And you're correct: 18 percent said public education is doing a good job, and give it an A or a B.
But then when the poll said: How do you feel about your own child's school, the one that you know best? Seventy-seven percent said: Oh, my own child's school is great - 77 percent. That's the highest rating that their own child's school has gotten in the history of the poll, which I think goes back some 25 years of asking that question.
So I think that the - it's not true that public education is a mess. We have some great public schools. And it's like every other thing we've been discussing today, whether it's privatization, choice, vouchers, charter schools, and now this incredibly excessive testing and this narrowing of the curriculum where we end up deleting or not having time for history, for civics, for the arts, for science because testing is -focuses everybody just on reading and math.
We are destroying our education system, blowing it up by these stupid policies. And handing the schools in low-income neighborhoods over to private entrepreneurs does not, in itself, improve them.
There's plenty of evidence by now that the kids in those schools do no better, and it's simply a way of avoiding their - the public responsibility to provide good education.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/trans...

If you can say charters are "saving" dropouts, let's see the data. I'd say a 35% grad rate is a failure, not a success. Why should untested charters with unlicensed teachers take $$$ from proven public schools and then not even be held to the same accountability standards as traditional public schools. Splain dat to me!

Here, compare states with UNION teachers to those with the right to work for LESS.....

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/stateprofiles/sre...

This one compares Texas vs Ohio, but you can plug any two states to compare.
Kelly Chase

Columbus, OH

#91 Jul 21, 2011
Kasich will destroy Ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
The parents end up doing the work for them online while their kid is playing X-Box or sleeping until Noon. Then, when it is time to take the OGT?
One question for you about your comment, if parents are doing all of their children's work while the children are playing X-Box and sleeping until noon then how are they passing the OGT's? Seems like you have no clue about online schools.
Old Timer

AOL

#92 Jul 21, 2011
Kelly Chase wrote:
<quoted text>
One question for you about your comment, if parents are doing all of their children's work while the children are playing X-Box and sleeping until noon then how are they passing the OGT's? Seems like you have no clue about online schools.
Kelly, having a relative who teaches for one of these schools, and who works hard to help these kids and their families, the pass rate in the math area is less than 12%. The aren't passing the OGT.

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