Voter ID Bills Out of Committee, Headed to House and Senate

Full story: NBC29 Charlottesville

For the second General Assembly session in a row, the fight over voter identification is creating tension in Richmond.

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sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#82
Feb 20, 2013
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Which would also do away with the silent ballot which is an affront to liberty. Could you imagine if the new black panthers got a hold of that information? What needs to be reviewed is the registration process. In all of the cases you have presented, proper registration would have prevented the fraud, and a poll worker abusing their position wouldn't be prevented even with photo ID.
Silent ballot wouldn't be eliminated on an absentee ballot or electronic ballot. Absentee ballots here anyway are a two part form with the actual voting on the bottom perferated tear away portion of the form-nothing but votes, no personal information.

If you audit the physical and absentee voting records and you have a two time voter you eliminate the absentee ballot before it is counted. Or if an absentee ballot is recieved prior you make a note besides that voter's name at the polling place. This is why absentee ballots should be counted AFTER a physical election.

With machine/polling place voting using a numbered paper trail referencing numbers only you could throw out lets say vote number 13 if voteR 13 is found inelidgable. With electronic voting and computers you could do this with numbers only. It would be extra steps including what should a court order to match any numbers to names. This is why it is crucial to give access to voter records to election officials only and not party officials.

I agree voters and the registration process needs more vetting along with regular auditing of records. But this is why a voter identification number should be issued to and used by the voter.
Dude

Winchester, VA

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#83
Feb 20, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Silent ballot wouldn't be eliminated on an absentee ballot or electronic ballot. Absentee ballots here anyway are a two part form with the actual voting on the bottom perferated tear away portion of the form-nothing but votes, no personal information.
If you audit the physical and absentee voting records and you have a two time voter you eliminate the absentee ballot before it is counted. Or if an absentee ballot is recieved prior you make a note besides that voter's name at the polling place. This is why absentee ballots should be counted AFTER a physical election.
With machine/polling place voting using a numbered paper trail referencing numbers only you could throw out lets say vote number 13 if voteR 13 is found inelidgable. With electronic voting and computers you could do this with numbers only. It would be extra steps including what should a court order to match any numbers to names. This is why it is crucial to give access to voter records to election officials only and not party officials.
I agree voters and the registration process needs more vetting along with regular auditing of records. But this is why a voter identification number should be issued to and used by the voter.
they already do that, that is why there are automatic recounts if the vote is close, and they do it without IDs and without suppression.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#84
Feb 20, 2013
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>they already do that, that is why there are automatic recounts if the vote is close, and they do it without IDs and without suppression.
Still many states without paper trail.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/923305...

Again, this is why you give the voter a specific identification number they present on their voter id or they can use in combination with other photo id.

The recounts are good and should be used more frequently but they don't identify specific fraudulent votes/voters. They identify 'a' problem but not THE problem.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#85
Feb 20, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Still many states without paper trail.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/923305...
Again, this is why you give the voter a specific identification number they present on their voter id or they can use in combination with other photo id.
The recounts are good and should be used more frequently but they don't identify specific fraudulent votes/voters. They identify 'a' problem but not THE problem.
What's with the straw man arguments, assumptions, and fabrications? Hacking or flawed voting machines have nothing to do with voter IDs. Why do you want to track who votes for who, and why do you want to sequester votes?
sez you

Charlottesville, VA

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#86
Feb 20, 2013
 
Again, when they can ban Latinos from voting, this issue will miraculously go away.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#87
Feb 20, 2013
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>What's with the straw man arguments, assumptions, and fabrications? Hacking or flawed voting machines have nothing to do with voter IDs. Why do you want to track who votes for who, and why do you want to sequester votes?
Sequester votes? When did I mention hacked voting machines? Every vote should have a voter, the only way to track that is account for the number of voters that voted. The voter needs a number attached to them and their vote for tracking purposes ie paper trail with numbers only-not who. Voter ID is to PREVENT fraud. If they Ohio women was forced to put an actual voter id number on those absentee ballots along with having them witnessed and notorized it would've been much harder to cast those ballots.

Provisional ballots are another example of the need for voter ID. If 'a' voter isn't in the records or book at the polls a voter id number should be attached to their ballot. Voter ID makes that alot easier to verify someone who isn't in the books.
huck

Charlottesville, VA

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#88
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Sequester votes? When did I mention hacked voting machines? Every vote should have a voter, the only way to track that is account for the number of voters that voted. The voter needs a number attached to them and their vote for tracking purposes ie paper trail with numbers only-not who. Voter ID is to PREVENT fraud. If they Ohio women was forced to put an actual voter id number on those absentee ballots along with having them witnessed and notorized it would've been much harder to cast those ballots.
Provisional ballots are another example of the need for voter ID. If 'a' voter isn't in the records or book at the polls a voter id number should be attached to their ballot. Voter ID makes that alot easier to verify someone who isn't in the books.
This bill doesn't provide for your scenarios.

The ONE woman in Chicago is being used so much by the far-right, one would think voter ID fraud is rampant. It is not.

Common sense for any rational thinker would lead to the conclusion that few would impersonate another person to elect someone faced with existing penalties for doing so. It really is a non-issue.

If the GOP were serious about the constitutional right to vote, they would propose mandatory voting and put it all online, but you will never see them advocate this because they know if everyone voted, they would be sure to lose.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#89
Feb 21, 2013
 
huck wrote:
<quoted text>
This bill doesn't provide for your scenarios.
The ONE woman in Chicago is being used so much by the far-right, one would think voter ID fraud is rampant. It is not.
Common sense for any rational thinker would lead to the conclusion that few would impersonate another person to elect someone faced with existing penalties for doing so. It really is a non-issue.
If the GOP were serious about the constitutional right to vote, they would propose mandatory voting and put it all online, but you will never see them advocate this because they know if everyone voted, they would be sure to lose.
Mandatory voting would equal mob rule from impulse voting since around half the population doesn't follow or give a crap about politics & legislation. Mobs can turn in a heart beat. You would wind up with anarchy with mandatory voting.

That Ohio women is just one example of what goes on at the local level. I venture to say voting for or in place of relatives is most common techniques used since it is the easiest to rationalize. That one county has 19 different people under investigation for voter fraud.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#90
Feb 21, 2013
 
Should add mandatory voting in itself should not be allowed. If you chose to obstain from voting that is your right. You still pay taxes and are a citizen.

If we demand voting lets demand obligatory government service ie draft. Why not mandate drivers licenses for everyone.'Mandatory' behavior is simply another step twards socialism and/or a dictatorship.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#91
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
Should add mandatory voting in itself should not be allowed. If you chose to obstain from voting that is your right. You still pay taxes and are a citizen.
If we demand voting lets demand obligatory government service ie draft. Why not mandate drivers licenses for everyone.'Mandatory' behavior is simply another step twards socialism and/or a dictatorship.
It's the same thing with mandatory IDs. In order for it to not be a poll tax, the government must fund it. Don't use big words you don't understand. It's clear that you don't understand what socialism is, nor what a dictatorship is.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#92
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Sequester votes? When did I mention hacked voting machines? Every vote should have a voter, the only way to track that is account for the number of voters that voted. The voter needs a number attached to them and their vote for tracking purposes ie paper trail with numbers only-not who. Voter ID is to PREVENT fraud. If they Ohio women was forced to put an actual voter id number on those absentee ballots along with having them witnessed and notorized it would've been much harder to cast those ballots.
Provisional ballots are another example of the need for voter ID. If 'a' voter isn't in the records or book at the polls a voter id number should be attached to their ballot. Voter ID makes that alot easier to verify someone who isn't in the books.
Did you even read the link that you posted? You're afraid of a dictatorship, yet you want to set up a system where a group can track and coerce voting.
huck

Charlottesville, VA

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#93
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Mandatory voting would equal mob rule from impulse voting since around half the population doesn't follow or give a crap about politics & legislation. Mobs can turn in a heart beat. You would wind up with anarchy with mandatory voting.
That Ohio women is just one example of what goes on at the local level. I venture to say voting for or in place of relatives is most common techniques used since it is the easiest to rationalize. That one county has 19 different people under investigation for voter fraud.
So your vote is more important than the next person's?
Yes, the Ohio person is just ONE example, ONE that this Virginia bill cannot enforce (even if it were an issue this bill could address). You can 'venture to say' anything you want, you are free to breathe as well.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#94
Feb 21, 2013
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>It's the same thing with mandatory IDs. In order for it to not be a poll tax, the government must fund it. Don't use big words you don't understand. It's clear that you don't understand what socialism is, nor what a dictatorship is.
So mandated or obligatory behavior is not part of a dictatorship? Or the GOVERNMENT telling you what to do including what you will do is not part of a socialist system?

Perhaps I didn't make my argument/example clear enough so you can understand it. You must vote at age 18 would be an example. Wouldn't mandated voting be following a national or federal law?-That's government telling what and when you should do it for political reasons. If you are at the point you are MANDATING voting for government officials there will be more than mandated voting laws coming from the government.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#95
Feb 21, 2013
 
huck wrote:
<quoted text>
So your vote is more important than the next person's?
Yes, the Ohio person is just ONE example, ONE that this Virginia bill cannot enforce (even if it were an issue this bill could address). You can 'venture to say' anything you want, you are free to breathe as well.
Didn't say my vote is more important. With mandatory voting you have disinterested and uninformed individuals voting which will create more problems than you think. You'll have individuals voting that never followed politics or politicians in their life. It will be an impulse vote based on recent information and emotion. The goal is to motivate people to comeout to vote ie good candidates & policy along with the CREDIBILITY of the system. Unchecked fraudulent/criminal behavior in an election creates as much havoc as voter suppression(alledged).
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#96
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
So mandated or obligatory behavior is not part of a dictatorship? Or the GOVERNMENT telling you what to do including what you will do is not part of a socialist system?
Perhaps I didn't make my argument/example clear enough so you can understand it. You must vote at age 18 would be an example. Wouldn't mandated voting be following a national or federal law?-That's government telling what and when you should do it for political reasons. If you are at the point you are MANDATING voting for government officials there will be more than mandated voting laws coming from the government.
By definition, mob rule is democracy, that is why we're a representational democracy and a federal republic. No, compulsory voting is not part of a dictatorship, look up what a dictatorship is (besides the fact that in a dictatorship only one person rules.) Yes, our government tells us what to do all the time, you can't smoke marijuana, you can't drink a bottle of vodka and drive, you must pay your taxes, and if you're a male you must sign up for the selective service at 18. Australia has compulsory voting and they finish at #9 of the civil liberty scale, the USA is #12:
http://www.worldaudit.org/civillibs.htm

No, it's not part of a socialist system. Voting is democratic, what compulsory voting would be is coerced democracy. Meaning, people are forced to take part in their government. That is not socialism, nor is it dictatorship. That is not what socialism is. Do you support the military, police, firemen, public education, roads, the highway system? That is socialism what socialism is. What people dispute are social programs, like welfare and subsidies, which is also socialism.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#97
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't say my vote is more important. With mandatory voting you have disinterested and uninformed individuals voting which will create more problems than you think. You'll have individuals voting that never followed politics or politicians in their life. It will be an impulse vote based on recent information and emotion. The goal is to motivate people to comeout to vote ie good candidates & policy along with the CREDIBILITY of the system. Unchecked fraudulent/criminal behavior in an election creates as much havoc as voter suppression(alledged).
we already have uninformed voters voting, seriously? In fact, they may take on the responsibility of voting, and we wouldn't be in this mess today.
sheepleloveroyal ty

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#98
Feb 21, 2013
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>we already have uninformed voters voting, seriously? In fact, they may take on the responsibility of voting, and we wouldn't be in this mess today.
The problem is that too many won't look at voting as a responsibility but an obligation to be done and over with. True there are people voting today that aren't voting informed or they are voting on emotion. But they took the time and initative to vote which is their right-they chose their level of participation in politics. Mandatory voting would just amplify messy or unpopular outcomes.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#99
Feb 21, 2013
 
sheepleloveroyalty wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is that too many won't look at voting as a responsibility but an obligation to be done and over with. True there are people voting today that aren't voting informed or they are voting on emotion. But they took the time and initative to vote which is their right-they chose their level of participation in politics. Mandatory voting would just amplify messy or unpopular outcomes.
We don't know that, and I disagree that it will amplify the mess we're in. Most people that I know that don't vote are libertarian and are frustrated with the current system, but feel powerless to affect change, so they don't bother. Most republicans I know didn't vote, because they don't like the direction the party is taking, and I only know two democrats who, we don't talk politics.

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