Sold for $380,200, now appraised at $125,000: Investors helped ...

There are 183 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Aug 17, 2008, titled Sold for $380,200, now appraised at $125,000: Investors helped .... In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

A couple of years ago, real-estate investors were so hot on Orlando that hundreds of buyers from around the world paid an average $300,000 -- triple today's prices -- for old condos on a run-down corner next to ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Orlando Sentinel.

The City Stupid

Winter Park, FL

#150 Aug 21, 2008
If you live in Orlando, your house is worth less today than it was yesterday. People have figured out that they have other choices than living in a 3rd World crime ridden cesspool. Florida's only asset are its beaches why would anyone pick bascially the Only city in Florida not by the beaches with the highest tolls in the State? You got exactly what you deserved. A population of 2 million living in Spanish speaking urban sprawl with shots firing out daily. Can you really still try and convince yourself that this is a nice place to live. There is an old saying, when your in a hole, stop digging. Orlando is a corrupt pathetic hell.
UF ALUM

Longwood, FL

#151 Aug 21, 2008
The LR wrote:
<quoted text>

P.S. Business is great...
We are in a minor recession so people are flocking to fast food joints for cheap food in droves... so I imagine it is. Enjoy that new rental in Winter Park... and congratulations on finally finding a job.
Cay Clubs Fraud

Hamden, CT

#152 Aug 21, 2008
Your article fails to mention the massive fraud involved in the Cay Clubs story. Dave Clark, the Schwartz Brothers, Barry Graham and Ricki Stokes (all from Cay Clubs) colluded with Sunvest, Ross Pickard (Chase Bank) and Joseph Goenner (Benchmark) to defraud buyers of hundreds of millions of dollars. Cay Clubs promised high monthly rental income, large appreciation within months, a five star resort, among other things. Sunvest sold their units to Clark and he would turn arounb and sell the units along with his lies the very same day for up to 4 times what he paid for it hours earlier. They would also promise tens of thousands of dollars in kickbacks to the buyer. Goenner would falsify the appraisal based on Clark's strawmen buyers who really didn't buy the units then Pickard would falsify the loan docs.
At the Sarasota Cay Club they stole over 20 million dollars from the investors.
Their lame defense is "we'll the market went down and we lost money" The problem with that is they owned very little property and spent nothing on fixing up the properties as marketed. They stole the money!!!!! And now they a probably out of the country with the buyers money. Many have called this the largest Ponzi scheme in the history of the U.S.
Interested

Apopka, FL

#153 Aug 21, 2008
Cay Clubs Fraud wrote:
Your article fails to mention the massive fraud involved in the Cay Clubs story. Dave Clark, the Schwartz Brothers, Barry Graham and Ricki Stokes (all from Cay Clubs) colluded with Sunvest, Ross Pickard (Chase Bank) and Joseph Goenner (Benchmark) to defraud buyers of hundreds of millions of dollars. Cay Clubs promised high monthly rental income, large appreciation within months, a five star resort, among other things. Sunvest sold their units to Clark and he would turn arounb and sell the units along with his lies the very same day for up to 4 times what he paid for it hours earlier. They would also promise tens of thousands of dollars in kickbacks to the buyer. Goenner would falsify the appraisal based on Clark's strawmen buyers who really didn't buy the units then Pickard would falsify the loan docs.
At the Sarasota Cay Club they stole over 20 million dollars from the investors.
Their lame defense is "we'll the market went down and we lost money" The problem with that is they owned very little property and spent nothing on fixing up the properties as marketed. They stole the money!!!!! And now they a probably out of the country with the buyers money. Many have called this the largest Ponzi scheme in the history of the U.S.
Sounds to me like the "producers" only with a different ending.
The LR

Osteen, FL

#154 Aug 21, 2008
UF ALUM wrote:
<quoted text>
We are in a minor recession so people are flocking to fast food joints for cheap food in droves... so I imagine it is. Enjoy that new rental in Winter Park... and congratulations on finally finding a job.
Dear UF, I never have to work another day in my life thanks to my real estate investments that paid off handsomely, but keep renting and let me know how that works out for you.
Cay Clubs Buyer

Columbus, OH

#155 Aug 21, 2008
Cay Clubs Fraud wrote:
Your article fails to mention the massive fraud involved in the Cay Clubs story. Dave Clark, the Schwartz Brothers, Barry Graham and Ricki Stokes (all from Cay Clubs) colluded with Sunvest, Ross Pickard (Chase Bank) and Joseph Goenner (Benchmark) to defraud buyers of hundreds of millions of dollars. Cay Clubs promised high monthly rental income, large appreciation within months, a five star resort, among other things. Sunvest sold their units to Clark and he would turn arounb and sell the units along with his lies the very same day for up to 4 times what he paid for it hours earlier. They would also promise tens of thousands of dollars in kickbacks to the buyer. Goenner would falsify the appraisal based on Clark's strawmen buyers who really didn't buy the units then Pickard would falsify the loan docs.
At the Sarasota Cay Club they stole over 20 million dollars from the investors.
Their lame defense is "we'll the market went down and we lost money" The problem with that is they owned very little property and spent nothing on fixing up the properties as marketed. They stole the money!!!!! And now they a probably out of the country with the buyers money. Many have called this the largest Ponzi scheme in the history of the U.S.
Finally an intelligent comment made by someone who actually knows what went on with Cay Clubs. Orlando Cay Club was sold as a 5 star soccer training facility. Units were already being sold before they even bothered to go to the local authorities for approval to change the golf course into soccer fields. When they did, it was denied. And IMG was promoted as a partner in this new soccer facility because they had "outgrown" their soccer facility in Bradenton. As the article states, a brave "no comment" from IMG about those plans - HMMM very interesting!
karma

Merritt Island, FL

#156 Aug 21, 2008
The LR wrote:
<quoted text>Dear UF, I never have to work another day in my life thanks to my real estate investments that paid off handsomely, but keep renting and let me know how that works out for you.
careful loudmouth, bad things happen to bad people and ur way over due
EVIAN

Deerfield Beach, FL

#157 Aug 21, 2008
Cay Clubs Buyer wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally an intelligent comment made by someone who actually knows what went on with Cay Clubs. Orlando Cay Club was sold as a 5 star soccer training facility. Units were already being sold before they even bothered to go to the local authorities for approval to change the golf course into soccer fields. When they did, it was denied. And IMG was promoted as a partner in this new soccer facility because they had "outgrown" their soccer facility in Bradenton. As the article states, a brave "no comment" from IMG about those plans - HMMM very interesting!
A similar thing happened in Pompano Beach. They took over this huge lot right next the the FEC and Dixie Hwy. Orchid Grove is the name. B******n was a major player. It sits there now as a half built complex with none of the amenities promised. They were selling units up into the high $300,000 just a couple of years ago. Who would pay that to live next to a Freight Line ? Oakland Park the same. They built allegedly $350,000 Condos right in the middle of a warehouse district. Beautiful view of Terry Toppers.

Were people that ignorant, or greedy or what ?
Fuzzy

United States

#158 Oct 11, 2008
Dave Clark's girlfriend and accomplice busted October 10, 2008 - Florida Keys

(Don't believe for 1 minute that Cristal Clear Rentals wasn't affiliated with Cay Clubs. Cristal was Clark's girlfriend and Clark was money behind all the Cristal Clear enterprises.)

Manager accused in tax, rental scam

Today's Keys News

By Robert Silk Citizen Staff

Prosecutors say the manager of an Islamorada and Key West vacation rental company that closed abruptly in May stole $104,000 from customers and her homeowner clients.

Cristal Coleman, 34, who owned Cristal Clear Rentals LLC, surrendered to authorities and was released on $150,000 bond Friday afternoon.

She is charged with one count of scheme to defraud over $50,000, a first-degree felony that carries a maximum of 30 years in prison. She also is accused of failing to remit more than $39,000 in bed taxes to Monroe County, a second-degree felony.

She plans to plead not guilty, said her attorney, Hal Schuhmacher.

"We are trying to ascertain what monies, if any, are owed," he said. "If monies are owed, she intends to repay any monies that are due. There was never any intent to defraud people."

Coleman created a wave throughout the local vacation rental industry in April when she sent a mass e-mail announcing that Cristal Clear had closed. The agency, she wrote, would not be refunding security deposits to customers nor would it be turning over any funds already collected, but not yet disbursed, to homeowners.

Investigators found that before going out of business, Coleman had cleared out escrow accounts designed to safeguard deposits made by customers on rental units, according to Paul Meyers, chief investigator for the Monroe County State Attorney's Office. The prosecutor's office has evidence of 20 people who lost money from what it calls a "scheme," he said.

Coleman's April e-mail, in which she wrote that the economy had caused her to not pay what she owed, amounted to an insult, Meyers said.

"That is not just victimizing people. That is slapping them in the face as well as stealing their money," he said.

Cristal Clear Rental was one of a network of businesses that was associated with Cay Clubs -- the high-profile development company with numerous Florida Keys holdings that fell into ruins last year. Coleman, who now lives in Melbourne, Fla., was the longtime domestic partner of Cay Clubs CEO Dave Clark. The status of their relationship was unclear Friday.

Meyers said there is no evidence that Clark was involved with Coleman's rental business.

rsilk@keysnews.com

Published Saturday, October 11, 2008
Vic

Sanford, FL

#159 Oct 11, 2008
I think some onus must go on the appraisers who were too stupid or lazy to do their job. Most, would simply appraise at the asking price, collect their fee, and move on to the next.
Some buyers were stupid but some actually trusted the appraisers.
Reality_check

Orlando, FL

#160 Oct 11, 2008
You do not put a fire out with gasoline, and you don't cure a credit crisis by expanding credit.

Ethics used to play a part in the scheme of things. Shop owners knew the clientele and were friendly. People came first, money second and things third.

When the old values weren't suitable anymore they were tossed, but new ones were never put in place.

This is going to be a time of hard lessons all around.
George

United States

#161 Oct 11, 2008
Apartments in south florida that were renting for 7-800 a month, were converted to condos, a granite countertop here, some track lighting there. They were sold to individuals for $250K. People bought them planning on flipping them. Guess what they are renting for today. It's a good deal until the owners get foreclosed. Then it sits empty with the bank that was dumb enough to make the loan owning the overvalued property.

Since: Oct 08

USA

#162 Oct 11, 2008
mjkiu
read this site

AOL

#163 Nov 3, 2008
Oh Well

United States

#164 Nov 9, 2008
I think everyone lost, even the developers because all the developers I know lost their a--es and things don't look promising at all for quite a long time most likely
Go figure

United States

#166 Nov 19, 2008
Dave Clark is still married to the same woman he married 21 years ago. He has been supporting her until now where he demands a divorce in the Dominican Republic. She says no way to "Dominican Dave" So Cristal Coleman has been the "other woman " for 9myears and counting.
Fuzzy wrote:
Dave Clark's girlfriend and accomplice busted October 10, 2008 - Florida Keys
(Don't believe for 1 minute that Cristal Clear Rentals wasn't affiliated with Cay Clubs. Cristal was Clark's girlfriend and Clark was money behind all the Cristal Clear enterprises.)
Manager accused in tax, rental scam
Today's Keys News
By Robert Silk Citizen Staff
Prosecutors say the manager of an Islamorada and Key West vacation rental company that closed abruptly in May stole $104,000 from customers and her homeowner clients.
Cristal Coleman, 34, who owned Cristal Clear Rentals LLC, surrendered to authorities and was released on $150,000 bond Friday afternoon.
She is charged with one count of scheme to defraud over $50,000, a first-degree felony that carries a maximum of 30 years in prison. She also is accused of failing to remit more than $39,000 in bed taxes to Monroe County, a second-degree felony.
She plans to plead not guilty, said her attorney, Hal Schuhmacher.
"We are trying to ascertain what monies, if any, are owed," he said. "If monies are owed, she intends to repay any monies that are due. There was never any intent to defraud people."
Coleman created a wave throughout the local vacation rental industry in April when she sent a mass e-mail announcing that Cristal Clear had closed. The agency, she wrote, would not be refunding security deposits to customers nor would it be turning over any funds already collected, but not yet disbursed, to homeowners.
Investigators found that before going out of business, Coleman had cleared out escrow accounts designed to safeguard deposits made by customers on rental units, according to Paul Meyers, chief investigator for the Monroe County State Attorney's Office. The prosecutor's office has evidence of 20 people who lost money from what it calls a "scheme," he said.
Coleman's April e-mail, in which she wrote that the economy had caused her to not pay what she owed, amounted to an insult, Meyers said.
"That is not just victimizing people. That is slapping them in the face as well as stealing their money," he said.
Cristal Clear Rental was one of a network of businesses that was associated with Cay Clubs -- the high-profile development company with numerous Florida Keys holdings that fell into ruins last year. Coleman, who now lives in Melbourne, Fla., was the longtime domestic partner of Cay Clubs CEO Dave Clark. The status of their relationship was unclear Friday.
Meyers said there is no evidence that Clark was involved with Coleman's rental business.
rsilk@keysnews.com
Published Saturday, October 11, 2008
dominican crazzzzz

United States

#167 Dec 23, 2008
that is all to crazy
The Truth

United States

#168 Jan 6, 2009
Who are you and are you for real? A ponzi scheme is when people take others money to pay off other people- these people bought condos and got CONDOS, idiot. Then the market crashed and some things didn't get finished but every single person got a condo. But somehow, EVERYWHER in the WORLD, prices went down substantially and now everyon is looking to call anyone a crook. You all are unfathomable negative who deserve each others company on this website.
The Truth

United States

#169 Jan 6, 2009
Had Tripp Hoffman and husband Alan Van Wieren not stolen $400,000 from the business Coleman ran, they wouldn't have been in the mess they found themselves in, after buying a business that was already in the hole from past poor management, with high hopes of turning things around with the real estate boom (in 2006)-- but these guys ripped them off and they had to pay the price. Coleman paid all the people who were owed, except Van Wieren. Word has it a felony charge will ensue with both Key West men.
Glass Houses Crack

United States

#170 Mar 15, 2009
And the truth behind Dave's past marriage is that his ex ran around on him for years and he left her over 10 years ago. She refused to sign off on divorce papers unless she got half the company or millions in alimony plus millions in life insurance and he couldn't get life insurance (from having beat cancer) and he was only one of several partners of the Cay Clubs company so if it sold, to pay her cheating self off- everyone would have lost out - although, now that its down and out/belly up, she ran to finally sign the papers because she's the only one left with any asset. He lost all of his. Now she's worried he may go after hers!! Unbelievable that she would have the audacity to try and throw eggs. The glass house phrase works right about now.

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