Measure A: a closer look at the debate

Measure A: a closer look at the debate

There are 139 comments on the The Ukiah Daily Journal story from Oct 18, 2009, titled Measure A: a closer look at the debate. In it, The Ukiah Daily Journal reports that:

Editor's note: The following is an account of some of the major issues surrounding Measure A as addressed by supporters and opponents during the Oct.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Ukiah Daily Journal.

First Prev
of 7
Next Last
Yes on A

San Jose, CA

#124 Nov 2, 2009
Slap Down wrote:
<quoted text> VOTE NO ON A! It is fatally flawed.
OMG! If A passes we're going to die!
What's up with the guy at the post office that gets all of the Yes on A flyers out of the recycling? What purpose does that serve? What will he do with them? Some of the No on A people are a little off their rockers. I'm just saying.
Can't wait till the votes are tallied. This debate is so interesting. Way better than Measure B or that silly GMO business. I wonder if everyone can go back to being friends or if this will divide our county for all eternity? LMAO
Slap Down

Ukiah, CA

#125 Nov 2, 2009
Yes on A wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG! If A passes we're going to die!
What's up with the guy at the post office that gets all of the Yes on A flyers out of the recycling? What purpose does that serve? What will he do with them? Some of the No on A people are a little off their rockers. I'm just saying.
Can't wait till the votes are tallied. This debate is so interesting. Way better than Measure B or that silly GMO business. I wonder if everyone can go back to being friends or if this will divide our county for all eternity? LMAO
This is a fascinating debate with many issues. Democracy in its many forms is a dirty business. I hope as well that when this is over, either way, that this community heals and moves on. Some won't but they would not anyways. If you have an interest, read John Perkins books. Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is interesting. It serves, somewhat, as a good backdrop to DDR's motivations at Masonite and elsewhere. Both ends of the crazy ideology scale are represented here but the middle will make the ultimate decision. Everybody should go and vote your conscience tomorrow. I'm still voting No for reasons stated previously. You should vote for whichever side you support. Vets have died to maintain this most precious right. Go Vote or quite complaining.
Vote YES on A

San Jose, CA

#126 Nov 2, 2009
Slap Down wrote:
<quoted text>This is not a DIRECT DEMOCRACY but rather a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY! We elect people, right or wrong, to advise and protect us citizens as to the proper method by which to pursue a common future. Measure A is a direct slap in the face to our system of government and to the people of Mendocino County. If you had any clout you would have been involved in the election process with your $1,000,000+ years ago. If you were and lost then now you are just the typical hypocritical Radical Conservative Pervert! DDR has put $1,000,000+ into a referendum to subvert the development process. This is about short term gains for foreign, out of state, carpetbaggers who hate California anyways. I'm from the Midwest and believe me they think we are from another planet. This site is an EPA CLEANUP SITE! How about we take several truck loads of the contaminated soil from there and dump it in your front yard? I'm sure that for a few BUCKS you would do it, RIGHT? Of course you would have to disclose this fact at sale time and therefore would most likely render your home valueless just like the Masonite Property is now without this Measure. There is ONE GUARANTEE HERE and that is DDR will never be responsible for the cleanup of this site if this passes, PERIOD! YOU should know that! Measure A is inappropriate.IT IS A PRIVATE INDUSTRY SWEETHEART DEAL WRITTEN BY THAT INDUSTRY FOR THEIR EXCLUSIVE BENEFIT!!! I would love it, like you, to have this site developed. But, there has been a dirty industry on that site for decades with NO soil pollution control or inspection or remediation. It must be cleaned up before re-development! VOTE NO ON A! It is fatally flawed.
Wow! I guess the cutbacks at mental health have been especially tough on you. Take a deep breath and relax. There you go. If you experience any further breakdowns, call the Crisis Line in Ukiah.
Slap Down

Ukiah, CA

#128 Nov 3, 2009
Vote YES on A wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! I guess the cutbacks at mental health have been especially tough on you. Take a deep breath and relax. There you go. If you experience any further breakdowns, call the Crisis Line in Ukiah.
OK. I'm sure you will answer while you are working off your court ordered public service time for being a JERK!
Slap Down

Ukiah, CA

#129 Nov 3, 2009
Vote YES on A wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! I guess the cutbacks at mental health have been especially tough on you. Take a deep breath and relax. There you go. If you experience any further breakdowns, call the Crisis Line in Ukiah.
By the way there is no hot line for STUPID! Good Luck with that. I hope you don't breed! STUPID is genetic.
VOTE NO ON THIS PIG

Ukiah, CA

#130 Nov 3, 2009
Vote YES on A wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! I guess the cutbacks at mental health have been especially tough on you. Take a deep breath and relax. There you go. If you experience any further breakdowns, call the Crisis Line in Ukiah.
Since when did the Mendo Co Jail PSYCHO UNIT get the internet? Guess we really don't need all that BIG TAX MONEY you expect from this loser, sorry conceptual, project you insult others over. Just another reason to send this PIG back to OHIO! When are you going back to Cleveland? It is a lovely place in the winter time and I'm sure you are missed. PLEASE HURRY! DDR is calling! Go. Run. JUST LEAVE!
Willits Resident

San Jose, CA

#131 Nov 3, 2009
I read the arguments for and against the measure. It just seems that there is a great deal of lying from the No on A side. Section 6 of the measure clearly states that the measure does not circumvent the state/federal laws and regulations in building. It appears that the No on A Group is doing the same old tactics that have suppressed this county for too long. Here is what I picked up from the whole mess:

No on A's argument is as follows:

DDR is an evil corporation from out of state so you must vote no because out of state corporations will destroy us because they are liars.

We don't want big box stores in this county

They will not clean up the site and they are circumventing the system!

What I see....

First argument seems to come from a 2 year old. If you want to be taken seriously you must come up with a better argument than that.

Second argument, we already have big box stores. Plain and simple and the tax revenue generated will be a benefit to the county and city.

Third argument, the UVAP is a farce and there seems to be this attitude that the county does not want to do nothing... There was lip service about going green so the company committed to making a green shopping center, then they stalled saying that the area plan must be developed and then did nothing for 4 years?

Basically we are getting hosed from hippies who moved up here 20 years ago and destroyed our industry in this county and now they say they want industry back? The hippies are lying. As long as the site stays designated for industry they can stall ANY development on that site.

I will VOTE YES ON A... it took me a while to come to this conclusion and sift through the BS.
Vote NO on A

Jackson St Forest, CA

#132 Nov 3, 2009
Willits Resident wrote:
I read the arguments for and against the measure. It just seems that there is a great deal of lying from the No on A side. Section 6 of the measure clearly states that the measure does not circumvent the state/federal laws and regulations in building. It appears that the No on A Group is doing the same old tactics that have suppressed this county for too long. Here is what I picked up from the whole mess:
No on A's argument is as follows:
DDR is an evil corporation from out of state so you must vote no because out of state corporations will destroy us because they are liars.
We don't want big box stores in this county
They will not clean up the site and they are circumventing the system!
What I see....
First argument seems to come from a 2 year old. If you want to be taken seriously you must come up with a better argument than that.
Second argument, we already have big box stores. Plain and simple and the tax revenue generated will be a benefit to the county and city.
Third argument, the UVAP is a farce and there seems to be this attitude that the county does not want to do nothing... There was lip service about going green so the company committed to making a green shopping center, then they stalled saying that the area plan must be developed and then did nothing for 4 years?
Basically we are getting hosed from hippies who moved up here 20 years ago and destroyed our industry in this county and now they say they want industry back? The hippies are lying. As long as the site stays designated for industry they can stall ANY development on that site.
I will VOTE YES ON A... it took me a while to come to this conclusion and sift through the BS.
Come on, you are really smarter than that aren't you? Let's start with Willits. Four of your City Council members have endorsed NO on Measure A. Greg Kanne, Larry Stranske, Holly Madrigal and Victor Hansen. Larry Stranske is a hippie? Victor Hansen? What have you been smoking?

Here are some more hippies against Measure A: Jere Melo, Doug Crane, Marge Boynton, Shannon Riley, Carre Brown, and the list goes on. It is yes on A that has been telling one whopper after another. The fact is that people across the political and social spectrum are voting NO on Measure A for many reasons, not the least of which are the many lies of DDR.

And you should not be fooled by what Measure A, which adopts the 300 page "plan" written by DDR, has to say. The Project Summary says that "All uses, site plans and descriptions are conceptual and do not reflect what may actually be built." (Page B-19 of Exhibit B which contains the so-called Specific Plan.)

This weasel language means the developer is not bound by any of the descriptions or conditions in the plan. In short, if Measure A passes, DDR, the developer who wrote and paid for Measure A gets to do whatever they want and we get stuck paying for the impacts.

Also, Willits, Fort Bragg and Ukiah will see no new revenue. In fact they will lose revenue because Measure A will drain sales tax away from them, making it harder to fund essential public services like police and fire.

There are just too many unanswered questions about Measure A.

No thanks. Vote NO on A.
Willits Resident

Santa Rosa, CA

#133 Nov 3, 2009
Vote NO on A wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on, you are really smarter than that aren't you?
Wow, a personal attack? You really are starting off justifying my position that you really don't care about the issues you just are pushing your agenda.
Vote NO on A wrote:
Let's start with Willits. Four of your City Council members have endorsed NO on Measure A. Greg Kanne, Larry Stranske, Holly Madrigal and Victor Hansen. Larry Stranske is a hippie? Victor Hansen? What have you been smoking?
There it is again, Smoking? Nope I don't smoke. As for those in our city council they may be against it but I don't know for what reasons. I can't see your side. I read the whole argument and rebuttal and I read the breakdown of each side. All I see from the "No on A" camp are conjectures. Rants of ominous looming dangers from an Evil Corporation. But nothing behind it. Only the simple minded are swayed by such arguments. Give me something with substance!
Vote NO on A wrote:
Here are some more hippies against Measure A: Jere Melo, Doug Crane, Marge Boynton, Shannon Riley, Carre Brown, and the list goes on. It is yes on A that has been telling one whopper after another. The fact is that people across the political and social spectrum are voting NO on Measure A for many reasons, not the least of which are the many lies of DDR.
You have made two fallacies here Ad populum or appeal to the masses...(Also known as the lemming fallacy which is; everyone is going off the cliff so it must be the right course of action.) The second is straw-man which is DDR is an evil corporation and they are behind it so it is evil.
Again No substance.
Vote NO on A wrote:
And you should not be fooled by what Measure A, which adopts the 300 page "plan" written by DDR, has to say. The Project Summary says that "All uses, site plans and descriptions are conceptual and do not reflect what may actually be built." (Page B-19 of Exhibit B which contains the so-called Specific Plan.)
This weasel language means the developer is not bound by any of the descriptions or conditions in the plan. In short, if Measure A passes, DDR, the developer who wrote and paid for Measure A gets to do whatever they want and we get stuck paying for the impacts.
If the county supervisors had done their job then there would be more oversight but again I site section 6 of measure A which states that the measure does not allow any circumvention of existing laws or regulations. Which includes an impact review. If there is a problem it will stop there.
Vote NO on A wrote:
Also, Willits, Fort Bragg and Ukiah will see no new revenue. In fact they will lose revenue because Measure A will drain sales tax away from them, making it harder to fund essential public services like police and fire.
There are just too many unanswered questions about Measure A.
No thanks. Vote NO on A.
No the county will. We are already loosing a lot of money by people going to costco and target, best buy and since we are there the mall and other places in Santa Rosa. I know I go there! I would rather shop locally and normally do but I live on a budget and local shops charge a ton in attempts to gouge pot growers. I dont grow so I cant afford it... Also it is the County that distributes the funds to Sheriff and Fire agencies, also Ambulance. If the county was getting more tax revenue from the new mall then the Emergencies you cite will benefit form a YES vote on Measure A not a NO.... Nice lie.
Sorry but your side is flawed.
Willits Resident

Santa Rosa, CA

#134 Nov 3, 2009
Vote NO on A wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on, you are really smarter than that aren't you?
Wow, a personal attack? You really are starting off justifying my position that you really don't care about the issues you just are pushing your agenda.
Vote NO on A wrote:
Let's start with Willits. Four of your City Council members have endorsed NO on Measure A. Greg Kanne, Larry Stranske, Holly Madrigal and Victor Hansen. Larry Stranske is a hippie? Victor Hansen? What have you been smoking?
There it is again, Smoking? Nope I don't smoke. As for those in our city council they may be against it but I don't know for what reasons. I can't see your side. I read the whole argument and rebuttal and I read the breakdown of each side. All I see from the "No on A" camp are conjectures. Rants of ominous looming dangers from an Evil Corporation. But nothing behind it. Only the simple minded are swayed by such arguments. Give me something with substance!
Vote NO on A wrote:
Here are some more hippies against Measure A: Jere Melo, Doug Crane, Marge Boynton, Shannon Riley, Carre Brown, and the list goes on. It is yes on A that has been telling one whopper after another. The fact is that people across the political and social spectrum are voting NO on Measure A for many reasons, not the least of which are the many lies of DDR.
You have made two fallacies here Ad populum or appeal to the masses...(Also known as the lemming fallacy which is; everyone is going off the cliff so it must be the right course of action.) The second is straw-man which is DDR is an evil corporation and they are behind it so it is evil.
Again No substance.
Vote NO on A wrote:
And you should not be fooled by what Measure A, which adopts the 300 page "plan" written by DDR, has to say. The Project Summary says that "All uses, site plans and descriptions are conceptual and do not reflect what may actually be built." (Page B-19 of Exhibit B which contains the so-called Specific Plan.)
This weasel language means the developer is not bound by any of the descriptions or conditions in the plan. In short, if Measure A passes, DDR, the developer who wrote and paid for Measure A gets to do whatever they want and we get stuck paying for the impacts.
If the county supervisors had done their job then there would be more oversight but again I site section 6 of measure A which states that the measure does not allow any circumvention of existing laws or regulations. Which includes an impact review. If there is a problem it will stop there.
Vote NO on A wrote:
Also, Willits, Fort Bragg and Ukiah will see no new revenue. In fact they will lose revenue because Measure A will drain sales tax away from them, making it harder to fund essential public services like police and fire.
There are just too many unanswered questions about Measure A.
No thanks. Vote NO on A.
No the county will. We are already loosing a lot of money by people going to costco and target, best buy and since we are there the mall and other places in Santa Rosa. I know I go there! I would rather shop locally and normally do but I live on a budget and local shops charge a ton in attempts to gouge pot growers. I dont grow so I cant afford it... Also it is the County that distributes the funds to Sheriff and Fire agencies, also Ambulance. If the county was getting more tax revenue from the new mall then the Emergencies you cite will benefit form a YES vote on Measure A not a NO.... Nice lie.
Sorry but your side is flawed.
Vote NO on A

Jackson St Forest, CA

#135 Nov 3, 2009
Willits Resident, your rhetorical arguments come up short. And please knock off the baloney about DDR doing an EIR. If Measure A passes it won't happen. Read the Impartial Analysis in your ballot pamphlet. No CEQA = No EIR. You are obviously are one who does not wish to be confused with the facts. And if you really are a Willits resident, then why do you want to see your local city revenue gutted? Vote No on A.

“Illegitimati non carborundum”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#136 Nov 3, 2009
Vote NO on A wrote:
And if you really are a Willits resident, then why do you want to see your local city revenue gutted? Vote No on A.
Because these people can't see past a possible costco or target. that's all they see. They are all so stuck on getting a costco and/or target to ukiah they couldn't see the truth even if it were a snake under foot! And a yes vote didn't evenn guarranty either. All it did was give "all" control to DDR.
After seeing these types with the measure A debate I can understand how the patriot act was shoved through so easily. Gullible is gullible just like stupid is stupid.
Willits Resident

Santa Rosa, CA

#137 Nov 4, 2009
Vote NO on A wrote:
Willits Resident, your rhetorical arguments come up short. And please knock off the baloney about DDR doing an EIR. If Measure A passes it won't happen. Read the Impartial Analysis in your ballot pamphlet. No CEQA = No EIR. You are obviously are one who does not wish to be confused with the facts. And if you really are a Willits resident, then why do you want to see your local city revenue gutted? Vote No on A.
Again a lie... repeating it does not make it true, the ballot had no "Impartial Analysis", the analysis was clearly from the no camp... but lemmings like you will keep repeating the lie because it works to convince other lemmings... and Measure A was voted down. I am a resident, having a mall in Ukiah will not effect Willits... but truth does not matter to those like you so why bother. Just keep Mendocino's economy in the craps and you will have done your job... If you really cared about Mendocino you would not lie.
Willits Resident

Saint Helena, CA

#138 Nov 4, 2009
Former Ukiahan wrote:
<quoted text>
Because these people can't see past a possible costco or target. that's all they see. They are all so stuck on getting a costco and/or target to ukiah they couldn't see the truth even if it were a snake under foot! And a yes vote didn't evenn guarranty either. All it did was give "all" control to DDR.
After seeing these types with the measure A debate I can understand how the patriot act was shoved through so easily. Gullible is gullible just like stupid is stupid.
I asked for any type of substantial argument that would convince me otherwise. Nobody from the 'No side' could ever come up with a good argument they just keep spouting the lie that there would be no review and "all control to DDR". Even the measure stated the opposite in Section 6 so those like you and the "No" guy above are either too stupid to figure that out or you are being outright deceitful.

If I was to make my guess I would probably say you are the dumb one (based on your spelling" and the "No on Measure A" guy is the deceitful one.
Ohboy

United States

#139 Nov 4, 2009
The money DDR spent on this project would have been better spent on some mitigation on the project. They could have went through the process, instead they wanted it their way and only their way. What&#8217;s truly a waste of money and time. The thing I hope DDR understands that we the citizens of Mendocino County are strive to do is create our community that&#8217;s a model and not some other community blueprint plan. We have a great place, its like no other community and county in the nation. Mendocino Co. wants to flourish. DDR s plan was not the answer. It was a long shot quick fix. This is not about today it s about our future and that of the next generation. The residents of this county want to leave a legacy not a mall that is some sort of American standard and yesterday&#8217;s economic development plan.
Cut Ones Ball Off

Oakland, CA

#140 Jun 21, 2010
Yer SMRT wrote:
Jeez why do I bother replying... I don't know.
So nobody said they wouldn't let you vote, nice way to 'try' and mince words.
And you wanna play the veteran card? OK.
Guess what buddy? I'm a vet too. Same branch as you.
Me 'suggesting' you shouldn't vote had nothing to do with your military status.. it has to do with your ignorance; because just like your name... you make ‘no sence’
So people is Ukiah any better...

“Illegitimati non carborundum”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#141 Jun 21, 2010
Cut Ones Ball Off wrote:
<quoted text>So people is Ukiah any better...
Nope! But it's not any worse as well. It's ukiah. Love it or leave it!
In Ukiah

Oakland, CA

#142 Jun 25, 2010
Former Ukiahan wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope! But it's not any worse as well. It's ukiah. Love it or leave it!
I rather Love it and Fix it...

Since: Oct 09

Ukiah, CA

#143 Jun 26, 2010
What didn't happen was all the "green energy" businesses Richard Shoemaker and John Schaffer were supposed to build there. What also didn't happen was a tax sharing deal between the city and the county.

What has happened is Mendocino County is closer than ever to bankruptcy.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 7
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Real Estate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News China approves 9 Trump trademarks previously re... 17 min L I G E R 2
News Most Trump real estate now sold to anonymous bu... 18 min L I G E R 5
News Donald Trump 19 min L I G E R 2
Bulk REO Buyers Wanted! Must be direct to Buyer... (Jan '08) Jun 14 business finance 2,231
[ studios ] -- what would be the most accurate ... Jun 8 allgoals 1
News Neo-Nazi website raises $150,000 to fight South... Jun 8 Mullahing It Over 1
News Major mall (maybe two) coming here (Apr '11) Jun 6 forget it 3
More from around the web