Pat Buchanan Defends Hitler's Invasion of Poland

May 26, 2008 Full story: littlegreenfootballs.com 26

Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:29:41 am PST Last week we noted the bizarre arguments of Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey, who tried so hard to defend Barack Obama against President Bush's "appeasement" ...

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“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#1 May 26, 2008
Well that article takes out of context Pat Buchanan's comments which were related to negotiations and specifically with the Palestinian Arabs, and to Bush's Hitler comments.

However manipulating history to score political points, is tantamount to lying against an injured party. In this case the Poles. Buchanan is a chickenshit historian and a second rate politician. He should apologies to Poland for his outburst, or be made to suffer the political consequences.

(And this is not a statement to support Bush, who I consider in every way possible even a greater abuser of history than Buchanan. The only excuse Bush has is that he's a bloody chimpanzee, and so just being able to utter a few phrases is impressive indeed.)
peter

Cambridge, Canada

#2 May 27, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
Well that article takes out of context Pat Buchanan's comments which were related to negotiations and specifically with the Palestinian Arabs, and to Bush's Hitler comments.
However manipulating history to score political points, is tantamount to lying against an injured party. In this case the Poles. Buchanan is a chickenshit historian and a second rate politician. He should apologies to Poland for his outburst, or be made to suffer the political consequences.
(And this is not a statement to support Bush, who I consider in every way possible even a greater abuser of history than Buchanan. The only excuse Bush has is that he's a bloody chimpanzee, and so just being able to utter a few phrases is impressive indeed.)
This Buchanan must be a nazi in disguise. Why is it that everyone wants to blame ethnic poles for everything (WW2, anti-semitism, nazi collaboration, all lies)? Are we too nice, quiet, and civilized? Maybe we should start acting just like the black community and start major riots in order to send the message across.
Silky_Smooth_Joh nson

Kitchener, Canada

#3 May 27, 2008
Na
I think we should just laugh it off, You know the old saying; the best revenge is SUCCESS.
No matter what anyone says or tries to manipulate,
History is history, the ones that are educated and have some sort of common sence will be able to dicifer the B.S from the truth
and as for the others; well lets just say, one cannot stop shit from smelling.

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#4 May 27, 2008
Buchanan is a nutter anyways. It's not like anyone actually takes what he say's serious. He's one step away from the looney bin.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#5 May 28, 2008
peter wrote:
<quoted text>
This Buchanan must be a nazi in disguise. Why is it that everyone wants to blame ethnic poles for everything (WW2, anti-semitism, nazi collaboration, all lies)? Are we too nice, quiet, and civilized? Maybe we should start acting just like the black community and start major riots in order to send the message across.
ALl the politicians are sucking up to the Jewish Lobby. They are saying what they think AIPAC want to hear. It's all becoming one sick joke. No wonder McCain is trying to put some distance between his campaign and the Lobby.

Yeah I agree, this is looks like a certifiable nutter ready for the can.
Arindam

Doha, Qatar

#6 May 28, 2008
peter wrote:
<quoted text>
This Buchanan must be a nazi in disguise. Why is it that everyone wants to blame ethnic poles for everything (WW2, anti-semitism, nazi collaboration, all lies)? Are we too nice, quiet, and civilized? Maybe we should start acting just like the black community and start major riots in order to send the message across.
When it comes to history, it might be best to put blame aside, and simply study the causes and consequences of disasters, so as to avoid similar disasters in the future.(We already do this in the natural sciences - instead of blaming the rain god for the bad weather).

The two world wars were disasters for most of the concerned parties,(the main exception being the United States which benefited mightily from both; Poland, it must be said, suffered more than most). Therefore, they need to be studied and analyzed dispassionately - so that we can avoid a repeat.(Cynics would say - so we can find out how to benefit mightily from a repeat...)

Blaming Germany or Poland or Britain or 'the Jews' or 'Hitler'- doesn't get us anywhere - just as blaming the water or the winds for a tsunami is rather pointless. Such moralizing tends to create ill-will without actually increasing our understanding.

Challenges to the standard view should be welcomed to the extent that they increase our understanding of the event, rather than just shifting blame.

To this end, an interesting article on the subject of wars and imperial collapse is the following:

How Empires Fall
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05132008.h...

Another, rather long one is:

Military or Market-Driven Empire Building: 1950-2008
http://www.voltairenet.com/article156825.html

I hope you find them as enlightening as I did.
Pole from Warsaw

Bialystok, Poland

#7 May 28, 2008
Arindam wrote:
To this end, an interesting article on the subject of wars and imperial collapse is the following:
How Empires Fall
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05132008.h...
Another, rather long one is:
Military or Market-Driven Empire Building: 1950-2008
http://www.voltairenet.com/article156825.html
I hope you find them as enlightening as I did.
I took time to read both articles. I sincerely disencourage anyone else who'd wish to, unless one's interested in studying the ways psyops operate.(Psyops - psychological operations, formerly plain propaganda). Or to put it in a more straightforward manner - under the disguise of a science as neutral as meteorology we receive the fully blossomed flower of anti-Western propaganda in the twisted history sauce.

And here's a little example of taste bouquet being served

'It was Churchill, not Hitler, who first targeted civilian populations in World War II and caused the structure of civilized warfare to collapse in ruins.
The Americans quickly adopted Churchillís criminal policy of attacking civilians'

No, thanks - chef!

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#8 May 28, 2008
Pole from Warsaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I took time to read both articles. I sincerely disencourage anyone else who'd wish to, unless one's interested in studying the ways psyops operate.(Psyops - psychological operations, formerly plain propaganda). Or to put it in a more straightforward manner - under the disguise of a science as neutral as meteorology we receive the fully blossomed flower of anti-Western propaganda in the twisted history sauce.
And here's a little example of taste bouquet being served
'It was Churchill, not Hitler, who first targeted civilian populations in World War II and caused the structure of civilized warfare to collapse in ruins.
The Americans quickly adopted Churchillís criminal policy of attacking civilians'
No, thanks - chef!
Did you expect anything differen't from an Arab? They aren't called the scourge of the earth for nothing.
Pole from Warsaw

Bialystok, Poland

#9 May 28, 2008
Why_Me, there're only 40 % of Arabs in Quatar, so one can never know. Besides, there're Arabs and Arabs, I propose we don't condemn whole ethic groups :))

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#10 May 28, 2008
Why_Me wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you expect anything differen't from an Arab? They aren't called the scourge of the earth for nothing.
Arindam is no Arab. He's Indian and an old buddy of mine. Before you start dismissing him, his efforts are only to show you the otherside of the coin. He's not saying its better or worse, but only saying that the alternative view needs to be considered ... and in doing so you get a fuller understanding of the picture.

Rightly enough, this involves a little thinking and that can be painful of a blog like this where knee jerk responses and flaming are usually the menu du jour.

But from time to time it is therepeutic and even tasty, and todays recommendeation.

Poland is not holy, neither is America, neither are the Jews and most certainly not Soviet Russia. However bring them all together, and then your cooking! But it takes a far more sophisticated chef than the one PfW envisaged!
Pole from Warsaw

Bialystok, Poland

#11 May 28, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
Arindam is no Arab. He's Indian and an old buddy of mine. Before you start dismissing him, his efforts are only to show you the otherside of the coin. He's not saying its better or worse, but only saying that the alternative view needs to be considered ... and in doing so you get a fuller understanding of the picture.
Rightly enough, this involves a little thinking and that can be painful of a blog like this where knee jerk responses and flaming are usually the menu du jour.
But from time to time it is therepeutic and even tasty, and todays recommendeation.
Poland is not holy, neither is America, neither are the Jews and most certainly not Soviet Russia. However bring them all together, and then your cooking! But it takes a far more sophisticated chef than the one PfW envisaged!
We're not talking Arindam, we're talking the links he recommended. HT, I don't see much of 'other side of coin' news in there. Always the same anti- West, anti-American, stuff I read so many times it bores me to death. And I don't see how reading such c.... as:

'It was Churchill, not Hitler, who first targeted civilian populations in World War II and caused the structure of civilized warfare to collapse in ruins.
The Americans quickly adopted Churchillís criminal policy of attacking civilians'

may serve the fuller understanding of the picture. Or did you mean picture of a twisted history.

Sorry, Arindan. I appreciate your effort to rise the level of this place anyway.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#12 May 28, 2008
To be honest, I'll need to go back later to read the articles properly. There is no doubt that both Germany and Russia targeted civilians before Churchill, because they were that way inclined and because they got going earlier.

The statement no doubt refers to Churchills carpet bombing of the German mainland which was brutal no two ways about it. However, this was the only option available to both the Brits and the Americans as they did not have any other military capability ready to create the second front. And it was helpful at least in damaging some munitions factories and destroying the German spirit to fight.

I do agree that after further analysis, the conclusions remain the same more or less.

And secondly the topic is purely modern day, about the attitude of the American politicians towars very current situations. And so articles like these whilst interesting within themselves, actually hinder rather than aid understanding.

(.... I think that not bad considering my youngest kid is pestering me to have a go on the computer!)
Abe

Bronx, NY

#13 May 28, 2008
Getting back to Pat Buchanan.

Buchanan being part German and a right-winger has taken the Nazi German-centric viewpoint that Germany had some kind of right to a corridor (and territory) to the German population in Danzig (today's Gdansk). That was the reason for part of Hitler's b*tching about Poland.

That's surpising coming from someone who is very against multiculturalism. Most Europeans assimilate into another European nation but these Germans just became an ethnic enclave not to mention the fact that they illegally were there in the first place.

These Germans were there because they were pushed into that area against the will of the Poles when Germany occupied that area of Poland, when Poland did not exist during the 123 years before 1917.

I thought Buchanan was against ethnic enclaves that don't assimilate in a country.

I wonder if Buchanan thinks that Russia should have a corridor to its Russian population in Ukraine, Estonia and Latvia or that China should have a corridor to its Chinese populations in Russia OR that Mexico should have a corridor to its Mexican population in California and therefore anex and control California.

Although Nazis have always felt the German corridor issue was a legitimate reason to attack Poland, everyone knew that the Germans had plans to enslave all of Poland and Eastern Europe. So corridor issue or not, Poland was going to be destroyed by the same country that partly destroyed it for 123 years prior.

So World War II was coming no matter what. It was just a matter of when.
Abbass Abuzzada

Saint Paul, MN

#14 May 28, 2008
I begged Pat to stop drinking. This is what happens when he is really boozed.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#15 May 28, 2008
Abe wrote:
Getting back to Pat Buchanan.
Buchanan being part German and a right-winger has taken the Nazi German-centric viewpoint that Germany had some kind of right to a corridor (and territory) to the German population in Danzig (today's Gdansk). That was the reason for part of Hitler's b*tching about Poland.....
I totally agree with your statement and in the other Bush/Hitler/Buchanan thread I did mention the chicken shit politician playing up to a known audience which was in Pitsburgh from memory, and that is a German enclave as you of all people very well know.

Anyway, I've had my suspicions about this guy for a while without delving deeply into the crap he has written about, and know I am pleased the prick has openly verified it. The only redeeming factor is that he was speaking out against Bush....

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#16 May 28, 2008
Abbass Abuzzada wrote:
I begged Pat to stop drinking. This is what happens when he is really boozed.
I'll bet he took a shot of schnapps to calm his nerves, Abbass! No senior politician would come out with such a dunb statement in a completely sober state.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#17 May 28, 2008
.. I mean dumb .... as in dumb f@cker!
Abbass Abuzzada

Saint Paul, MN

#18 May 28, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll bet he took a shot of schnapps to calm his nerves, Abbass! No senior politician would come out with such a dunb statement in a completely sober state.
Add senile to that, too, HT.:)

There is a "hidden" epidemic in the USA. It's not hard drugs or pot, it's alcohol abuse. We're going back to the 50's in booze, despite all the drunk driving campaigns.

Alcohol accounts for more domestic violence and vehicle deaths than any other source.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#19 May 28, 2008
...world over!
Abbass Abuzzada

Saint Paul, MN

#20 May 28, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
...world over!
Ah! Thanks, HT, UK buddy.

What's your weather like now? It's 7pm here. And we have had a lovely day. Not more than 65 degrees. Alas, I was stuck inside working. But did manage a stroll about our Uptown area, dodging cars and trucks, on foot.:)

We have three different colored lilac bushes in bloom.:)

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