This industry illustrates the unresol...

This industry illustrates the unresolved legal relationship between religious freedom and gay rights

There are 18 comments on the Deseret News story from Aug 31, 2014, titled This industry illustrates the unresolved legal relationship between religious freedom and gay rights. In it, Deseret News reports that:

It's not always happily ever after for Christian business owners in the wedding industry, as recent religious freedom cases illustrate.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Deseret News.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#1 Aug 31, 2014
Poor little holy underwear people. Soon you will need to start "sealing" the marriage of Uncle Ed and Uncle Fred who lived together for 55 years before they died.

NOT!
Pat Robertson s Fatwass

Philadelphia, PA

#2 Aug 31, 2014
I can't wait for the cases of muslim or jewish or secularist or wiccan or buddhist or episcopalian owned businesses refusing service to those sick, xstain fundamentalists on the basis of the business owners' religious beliefs.

Then we'll hear a different take on "religious rights" from the fundie cretins.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#3 Aug 31, 2014
Pat Robertson s Fatwass wrote:
I can't wait for the cases of muslim or jewish or secularist or wiccan or buddhist or episcopalian owned businesses refusing service to those sick, xstain fundamentalists on the basis of the business owners' religious beliefs.
Then we'll hear a different take on "religious rights" from the fundie cretins.
When do you think that will start to happen?
What religious excuse could they use?
Will everyone have to carry a religion card?
You say mostly stupid things but you always seem angry.
Stay angry.
Pat Robertson s Fatwass

Philadelphia, PA

#4 Aug 31, 2014
"What religious excuse could they use?"

The exact same "logic" that the homophobic fundies are using now, that's what excuse, you stupid pos. That's why they should start doing it immediately - to demonstrate to the fundies what the golden rule (and equal application of the law) actually means.

LGBT people and str8 allies, the overwhelming majority, should be angrier at these sick, christianist, theocratic bigots. It will happen.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#5 Aug 31, 2014
Because Jesus would *totally* have rejected and turned away anyone he didn't agree with. Jesus was all about forcing his religious beliefs onto others and rejecting and scorning them if they didn't believe exactly what believed.

Wasn't he???

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#6 Aug 31, 2014
There's nothing "unresolved" here, or in any of the other cases where courts have consistently applied the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection and Due Process clauses, along with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 "public accommodation" definition, to rule that business open to the general public cannot discriminate.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#7 Aug 31, 2014
Jerald wrote:
There's nothing "unresolved" here, or in any of the other cases where courts have consistently applied the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection and Due Process clauses, along with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 "public accommodation" definition, to rule that business open to the general public cannot discriminate.
True. Whoever wrote this article is simply trying to paint the poor, long-suffering, pretend "christians" as the victims they are *not*.

True Christians, the true followers of Christ's example and his teachings, serve, love, welcome, and honor *everyone*, as Jesus himself instructed his followers to do. They don't pick and choose who is worthy and who is not and reject those they deem to be unworthy. And they *certainly* do it in Christ's name.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#8 Aug 31, 2014
Pat Robertson s Fatwass wrote:
The exact same "logic" that the homophobic fundies are using now, that's what excuse, you stupid pos.
Can you be more specific? I didn't think so. Stay angry, it's bad for your longevity.
Pat Robertson s Fatwass

Philadelphia, PA

#9 Aug 31, 2014
"Can you be more specific?"

Not specific or simple enough for lying, sexually sick bigots.

How about, the insane beliefs of xstain fundies offend my religious beliefs about the origin of the universe, how to treat outcasts, how just the homosexual "sins" do not trump everything else, that prayer should be kept private and out of state affairs, for starters?

It's a particularly easy argument to make for Ethical Culture Society members - it is a religion legally. Their religious beliefs, as those of Wiccans or Buddhists, etc., as just as sincerely held as those of the braying evilgelicals and right wing catholics. Probably moreso.

And since those fundies and their sick beliefs and practices so offend my religious beliefs I should not have to permit them in my business or "participate" in their baptisms or weddings or funerals by providing services.

You dumb filth. Now go get all those state AGs to enforce those unconstitutional anti sodomy laws on the books, as you witlessly say they must.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#10 Sep 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
When do you think that will start to happen?
What religious excuse could they use?
Will everyone have to carry a religion card?
You say mostly stupid things but you always seem angry.
Stay angry.
Just as soon as some other closely-held religious belief refuses to serve some Evangelistic Fundamentalist!!

The same religious excuse that folks like Elane has used, or the one the florist used in Washington or the excuse that Hobby Lobby has used.........except that you DON'T agree with one's closely-held religious beliefs being used AGAINST Christians, just against Gays and Lesbians, right?

You're the one here making asinine comments and seeing this issue from only one sided...instead of looking at this from a perceptive that could turn the tables on hypocrites!!!

“Where's my fairy wand!”

Since: Apr 08

Reading PA

#11 Sep 1, 2014
eJohn wrote:
Because Jesus would *totally* have rejected and turned away anyone he didn't agree with. Jesus was all about forcing his religious beliefs onto others and rejecting and scorning them if they didn't believe exactly what believed.
Wasn't he???
You are correct eJohn unfortunately his modern day "followers" don't seem to have gotten that message out of the church and the Bible.

And, to be fair, I'm not so sure it's just the modern day followers. Christianity has never been big on following the teachings of Jesus. They've HAVE been big on interpreting those teachings and cherry picking Bible passages and parables to fit their specific needs, goals or ends.

They are in good company though, many religions do the same thing so it's not just them.

I remain convinced that, on the whole, over the course of human history, religion has done far more harm than good.
Truth

Minneapolis, MN

#12 Sep 1, 2014
They are event planners, caterers, bakers etc. they are not blessing the wedding or consummating it. Just chose to do the job or get out of the business.

“Married 6/17/08”

Since: Feb 07

Porterville, CA

#13 Sep 1, 2014
In the United States when a BUSINESS is open to the "public" that means ALL of the "public" not just your kind. Discrimination in the United States, or any place else, is wrong and here against the law, if you don't like it easy answer close down the business or move it where you can like maybe Iran.
Dr Reker s Bellhop

Philadelphia, PA

#14 Sep 1, 2014
"Discrimination in the United States, or any place else, is wrong and here against the law...."

Wrong. It depends on what sort of discrimination and where in the US. You don't appear to know the law.
Dr Reker s Bellhop

Philadelphia, PA

#15 Sep 1, 2014
Oh, I consider discrimination wrong, but whether and where it is prohibited by law is a different matter. I was commenting on the existing laws in the US.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#16 Sep 1, 2014
Dr Reker s Bellhop wrote:
Oh, I consider discrimination wrong, but whether and where it is prohibited by law is a different matter. I was commenting on the existing laws in the US.
Fair enough. Discrimination -- the unusual or differential treatment of persons -- is legal when based on things that people typically can control. We allow stores and businesses to impose restrictions based on the type or lack of clothing that a person is wearing or if someone is drunk. What someone wears or their sobriety is not protected under law.(In some cases, especially for minors, age isn't protected. Twelve-year-olds can't vote, drive on freeways, or purchase alchohol.)

Federal law prohibits discrimination based on attributes that people typically can't control for and doesn't interfere or affect their ability to be productive and contributing members of society. Federal laws prohibit discrimination in employment, availability of housing, rates of pay, right to promotion, educational opportunity, civil rights, and use of facilities based on race, religion, nationality, creed, color, age (for people over 40), or sex.

Many states and local authorities prohibit discrimination based sexual orientation. If Congress passes ENDA or the Supreme Court rules that heightened scrutiny should be applied to laws that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, gays and lesbians would be more fully protected under law. Currently, it's perfectly legal in a majority of states to fire someone solely based on their sexual orientation.
Dr Reker s Bellhop

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Sep 1, 2014
"Discrimination in the United States, or any place else, is wrong and here against the law...."

No essay is required. The statement is obviously incorrect. It's the sort of fantasy wish fulfillment that you normally hear from anti rational tee baggrz, but it is by no means unknown on the left.

Now if that poster would like a basic civics lesson, or some remedial expository writing assistance, that is another matter.
Belle Sexton

Santa Cruz, CA

#18 Sep 1, 2014
"industry"

"religion"

When did these become synonyms ?

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