Museum to rename star parties for comet

[High Rolls astronomer]

Wow! A post based on facts and not name calling and innuendos. The first one on this thread. Let's see how low the rest of you will now continue to sink. The politics are why I'm not involved in the local astronomy organizations.

Leah Tookey wrote:

Jackie, Why don't you get your facts straight. Manny has been in education for three years. He is great! He was shuttle camp manager last year and did a wonderful job. There was no animosity or strife between the teachers and the museum staff like there was when you were in charge. And, as if you care, there were 450 kids at shuttle camp last year. Maybe not 900, but in this case quality is better than quantity. At least all the teachers had classrooms when they needed them and we weren't juggling kids around all the time. I thought it was the best year of shuttle camp since I became director of education four years ago. We had a great curriculum, great teachers and assistants, lots of fun and lots of learning. That's what it is all about. Perhaps some of the numbers this year reflect the wonderful program we had last year.
You can take your animosity and bitterness out on me if you want. I can honestly say, I worked very hard to make the education department at the museum the best it could be. I supported all of the programs to the best of my ability. Even the ones you created and nurtured. When I left last fall I felt I left it in the very capable hands of Emmanuel and Mike Shinabery, two employees I am proud to say, I hired and admire totally.
I was told you had said some nasty things about me here in this forum, but I must say, I was surprised to see that they are so hateful. I thought you had more integrity than that. I am sorry you are so angry. You really need to move on with your life. I pray you will find happiness someday.

[PinkFloyd]

There is no politics in our astronomy organization. In fact, there is no dues, no by-laws, no leaders nor followers, just stargazers who enjoy getting together and doing public outreach.

[ladyastronomer]

Bitterness doesn't even accurately describe my feelings about the museum Leah. I'd challenge you to work and do the job that I did in the same conditions I did. But that isn't what this topic is about.

It is about changing the name of WSSP to the Hale-Bopp Star Parties - without consulting "partners" of the event. Even the subject of Alan is off topic.

It is about the museum saying "to hell with the others, this is what we are going to do."

Those "others" are the amateur astronomy community that has not only supported the event with their attendance, but also with their hard work and contributions.

And then basically, giving them "the finger."

That is what this topix is about.

As for my happiness - it is fine thank you. I'm quite happy doing what I'm doing, living the life I'm living without the politics of the museum. It is very nice to work at a place that not only appreciates you, but values you as an employee.

What is really incredible "High Rolls Astronomer" is that the Alamogordo Astronomy Club split over club politics awhile back. The group that split formed the Museum Astronomers Group. And believe it or not, there has been tremendous effort by both groups recently to "get the politics back out of amateur astronomy and back to stargazing." Well guess what? This recent maneuver by the museum has finally accomplished a good thing. There is now a united effort in objecting to Mr. Hayes' decision.

[FactOrFiction]

Ladyastronomer is correct in say that when she was the manager of the shuttle camp that enrollment was 900 students, that is if 746 is almost 900.
Ladyastronomer is correct in say that last year’s enrollment was 150, that is if 450 is almost 150.
In order to try to sink the shuttle camp program, when she left the museum, she took the mailing list of all of the potential students.
She left the staff at the museum because there were going to make changes, and she didn’t like the changes because they were not her idea. So I quit.
How they want to change the name of the star party, and it’s not her idea. So I quit.

To see how important you are, you can measure your importance, you can use the bucket method. Take a bucket and fill it to 75% with water, put your hand in the water, hold it there for two minutes. Remove your hand and see how big of a hole you have left in the water.

[Traveler]

The stars are big and bright in Texas. And Santa Fe, too. That's where the politicians are.

[FactOrFiction]

PinkFloyd wrote:

There is no politics in our astronomy organization. In fact, there is no dues, no by-laws, no leaders nor followers, just stargazers who enjoy getting together and doing public outreach.

If you have no leaders, who should the NMMSH ask about the name change?

[FactOrFiction]

FactOrFiction wrote:

Ladyastronomer is correct in say that when she was the manager of the shuttle camp that enrollment was 900 students, that is if 746 is almost 900.
Ladyastronomer is correct in say that last year’s enrollment was 150, that is if 450 is almost 150.
In order to try to sink the shuttle camp program, when she left the museum, she took the mailing list of all of the potential students.
She left the staff at the museum because there were going to make changes, and she didn’t like the changes because they were not her idea. So I quit.
How they want to change the name of the star party, and it’s not her idea. So I quit.
To see how important you are, you can measure your importance, you can use the bucket method. Take a bucket and fill it to 75% with water, put your hand in the water, hold it there for two minutes. Remove your hand and see how big of a hole you have left in the water.

**** should read HOLE

[ladyastronomer]

Fact or Fiction, let's have you get your "facts right" before you say such things.

Fact one: I didn't keep the mailing list of potential student nor take it - I didn't maintain the mailing list. The Shuttle Camp admin assistant did. So if you want to point the finger at someone, point it elsewhere.

Fact two: I have the documentation to prove that enrollment one year I was director was about 880 students.(I said nearly 900 in my earlier post. I'm sorry if I exaggerated.)

Fact three: I don't need to "see how big of a hole I left in the water" when I left. I don't need you or anyone else to validate what I did or didn't do at the museum.

Fact four: I left the museum because I had been verbally harassed by my supervisor for more than 10 years. So if you want to know why I'm "bitter" it is because museum management allowed "that" to occur. Oh, and for the record, after my departure, the museum discovered first hand the kind of nonsense my former supervisor was up to. And guess what? He's no longer there.

I'm not a "quitter" as you suggested. I endured many years of pain in order to build something that I thought was viable and valuable to the community. Despite the politics and the tremendous pressures I was under at the museum.

Fact Five: My "source" of enrollment figures from last year came directly from a current museum employee who I not only love, but trust. If the figure was "bad" then it was misquoted to me.

I'm "done" with this conversation.

And in that light, I'd like to share this email from Mr. Hayes (printed verbatim, typos included)this morning:

It appears that yu and other local astronomers do not want to make any changes
to the existing WSSP. Last week when we met I thouhgt we were clear that we
were interested in expanding this concept to benefit the entire community. We
had discussed having an umbrella organization of which the WSSP would be
a venue, but other venues would also be created. We are still committed to
enlarging the astronomical opportunities in the Otero county area, and to
offer and market this unique area on a much broader basis. If you and the local
groups want to be a part of this concept we welcome you. It is also apparent
that you have pretty much decided on the format and content for the WSSP
and have expressed you wish no changes. That is fine too.
In that light, I see no need to have a planning meeting next tuesday. The members
of the local organizations most definitely have their ideas on the event and have
made it clear they're not interested in any changes we seek. We wish you well
in your endeavors and great success.
Randall Hayes

Enough said.

[Captain nemo]

It seams that everything Randell gets involved in
turns into a mess .Maybe if he sets up a few dinosaurs on the dunes,that will bring them in.And by the way he invented the telescope.

[PinkFloyd]

FactOrFiction wrote:

<quoted text>
If you have no leaders, who should the NMMSH ask about the name change?

The WSSP has never been owned by the museum. It is a joint partnership between the Alamogordo Astronomy Club, New Mexico Museum of Space History, and White Sands National Monument. Guess who was consulted about the name change....NO ONE! Shouldn't the amateur astronomers from the Alamogordo Astronomy Club and the museum been consulted about this change. The only thing that was discussed at the first meeting for the White Sands Star Party was the possibility of expanding the event.....never was a name change mentioned. The astronomy community both local and out of state know that event as the WHITE SANDS STAR PARTY. It was a tremendous success last year in previous years. There was no reason for a name change only that the new museum director wanted to throw his weight around. He should have sat down with the volunteers (the ones that do the event in the first place) and discussed this with them but he did not.

[Leo Cuevas]

Again, I cannot believe the amount of whining I read on here ... ALL because of a name change?
SERIOUSLY.
Let me say this, when the Hale-Bopp comet passed by earth years ago. Everyone in the world was talking about it, from friends in Mexico City to friends and relatives back home in Illinois.
We drove out into the country, to take a look at the comet. When I tell my friends about the Hale Bopp comet, all of them know what I am talking about. If I mention White Sands, the have no idea what I am talking about.
Soooo name recognition surely is a big deal, people need to think out of the box and just go with what it best for ALL, not just what is best for those that think they know best. Change is not always bad, sometimes can be very good.
I hate it when others tear up others without even giving them a chance to give their side of the story. It seems to me Alan had nothing to do with the name change as it came from the museum? Maybe I am wrong?
What I am reading here and the impression I get is this amounts to bitter angry people.

[PinkFloyd]

Leo Cuevas wrote:

Again, I cannot believe the amount of whining I read on here ... ALL because of a name change?
SERIOUSLY.
Let me say this, when the Hale-Bopp comet passed by earth years ago. Everyone in the world was talking about it, from friends in Mexico City to friends and relatives back home in Illinois.
We drove out into the country, to take a look at the comet. When I tell my friends about the Hale Bopp comet, all of them know what I am talking about. If I mention White Sands, the have no idea what I am talking about.
Soooo name recognition surely is a big deal, people need to think out of the box and just go with what it best for ALL, not just what is best for those that think they know best. Change is not always bad, sometimes can be very good.
I hate it when others tear up others without even giving them a chance to give their side of the story. It seems to me Alan had nothing to do with the name change as it came from the museum? Maybe I am wrong?
What I am reading here and the impression I get is this amounts to bitter angry people.

You are not an astronomer so your friends won't recognize the WSSP. They do know about it in the national amateur astronomy community which is what is needed for a star party.

[Leo Cuevas]

I posted this on another thread:
FYI, Alan has done non-profit volunteer work every year since we moved back here 3 years ago and has been doing it longer than us.
These last few months (plus over the past few years) he has been meeting with us as part of our theatre group in Cloudcroft. This group puts on shows, free of charge, to give back to the community, such as scholarships to local high school students, but also to help others and even help the local economy by buying hundreds of dollars worth of supplies, for the dozen plus shows, three times a year.
An example, last year we gave a few hundred dollars (not much) to a local family who's mom is dying and has no health insurance.
So for those that don't know Alan or follow him around with a camera, OR ANYBODY ELSE for that matter. He does much more than many others know or give him credit for.
We members all spend ALOT of money on gas (sometimes I think too much when we are running on empty), not to mention the LONG hours, last night until 9pm, three days a week, months out of the year, can be stressful at times ... all to give back ... how many of you give back?

[PinkFloyd]

No bitterness here. Just happy because the museum director is now eating crow, big helping of it this morning. The director is the one that decided on the name change. Don't know where he got the idea that he could do that.

[Leo Cuevas]

I just think it's wrong to rip on specific people, especially when those people have no idea what is being said about them.

To me, Hale-Boppe sounds better than Star Party .... from an outsider point of view, when I hear Star Party, I am thinking Hollywood came to town.... when I hear Hale_Boppe, I know right away this means: comets and space.

No offense, just my thought.

[PinkFloyd]

Leo Cuevas wrote:

I posted this on another thread:
FYI, Alan has done non-profit volunteer work every year since we moved back here 3 years ago and has been doing it longer than us.
These last few months (plus over the past few years) he has been meeting with us as part of our theatre group in Cloudcroft. This group puts on shows, free of charge, to give back to the community, such as scholarships to local high school students, but also to help others and even help the local economy by buying hundreds of dollars worth of supplies, for the dozen plus shows, three times a year.
An example, last year we gave a few hundred dollars (not much) to a local family who's mom is dying and has no health insurance.
So for those that don't know Alan or follow him around with a camera, OR ANYBODY ELSE for that matter. He does much more than many others know or give him credit for.
We members all spend ALOT of money on gas (sometimes I think too much when we are running on empty), not to mention the LONG hours, last night until 9pm, three days a week, months out of the year, can be stressful at times ... all to give back ... how many of you give back?

Well lets see, I volunteer twice each month for astronomy events and for every Shuttle Camp. Does Alan... NO. All he is interested in is selling his book. I have never seen him at ANY star gazing event. He thinks he is above paying dues to join the Alamogordo Astronomy Club. Is he the only one that has contributed locally to the astronomical community...NO. We have many others that do and do so without fanfair.

[PinkFloyd]

Leo Cuevas wrote:

I just think it's wrong to rip on specific people, especially when those people have no idea what is being said about them.
To me, Hale-Boppe sounds better than Star Party .... from an outsider point of view, when I hear Star Party, I am thinking Hollywood came to town.... when I hear Hale_Boppe, I know right away this means: comets and space.
No offense, just my thought.

Well astronomers (which are the ones that pay to camp out at the sands during the White Sands Star Party) know these events as star parties. So, they are the ones that matter. Public outreach is our game and it has had this name for ages. And naming it Hale-Bopp suggests that you will actually see this comet at the event which you will not unless it is the year is passes by again!

[PinkFloyd]

Oh BTW, Hale-Bopp won't be bright enough to been seen until 4377.

[Captain of the Minnow]

Leo Cuevas wrote:

I just think it's wrong to rip on specific people, especially when those people have no idea what is being said about them.
To me, Hale-Boppe sounds better than Star Party .... from an outsider point of view, when I hear Star Party, I am thinking Hollywood came to town.... when I hear Hale_Boppe, I know right away this means: comets and space.
No offense, just my thought.

Sorry Leo, the space museum director has just renamed you. Your new name is Alan Hale-Cuevas.

[PinkFloyd]

PinkFloyd wrote:

Oh BTW, Hale-Bopp won't be bright enough to been seen until 4377.

Which is why I don't think it ought to be renamed. Do you know how many times we'll hear "OH, ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE HALE-BOPP TONIGHT...NO, THEN WHY IS IT CALLED THAT??"