NYT Reports On Harassment Against Pro...

NYT Reports On Harassment Against Pro-Marriage Equality NC Business

There are 96 comments on the lezgetreal.com story from May 27, 2012, titled NYT Reports On Harassment Against Pro-Marriage Equality NC Business. In it, lezgetreal.com reports that:

The National Organization for Marriage constantly and consistently makes the argument that, if their donors are known to the public, then they will be harassed and lose business.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at lezgetreal.com.

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“WAY TO GO”

Since: Mar 11

IRELAND

#86 May 29, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Irrelevant.
First, we Catholics certainly consider ourselves Christians. Charles Carroll, the only Roman Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence stated that as a Roman Catholic, "he struck a blow not only for our independence of England, but for the toleration of all sects professing the Christian religion and communicating to them equal rights."
The Treaty of Tripoli merely stated the United States wasn't founded as a theocracy but I never said it was. Of course some of the states were founded on the Christian religion but the treaty kind of beat around the bush on that fact. Further ART 11 is not found in the Arabic version so the statement had no legal consequences during its short life. That statement was removed from the next Treaty of Tripoli after we defeated the Barbary States,
"It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary.....Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.
Jefferson's actions may seem surprising because his attitude toward the relation between religion and government is usually thought to have been embodied in his recommendation that there exist "a wall of separation between church and state." In that statement, Jefferson was apparently declaring his opposition, as Madison had done in introducing the Bill of Rights, to a "national" religion. In attending church services on public property, Jefferson and Madison consciously and deliberately were offering symbolic support to religion as a prop for republican government.
Religion and The Founding of the American Republic
James H. Hutson
Chief Historian
Manuscript Division
Library of Congress
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2....
Glad I could help,
You haven't helped at all.....and though you are entitled to your religious beliefs......I am entitled to mine and they can be different.....and Jefferson clearly stated that there should be a separation of Church and State.....so, essentially, the Government is PREVENTED from setting a National Religion!!!

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.

Who were the Founding Fathers? American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the "key" Founding Fathers:
John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington
Of these, only John Jay can be considered an orthodox Christian.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#88 May 30, 2012
Hoodathunkit wrote:
<quoted text>
State laws requiring a belief in God were unconstitutional from the start since the 6th article of the US Constitution expressly forbids any religious test to hold ofice in either the federal or state governments. The Supreme Court settled that in 1961 by declaring such laws as unconstitutional based on the 6th article.
Most blue laws were repealed or declared unconstitutional at the state level. While blue laws concerning the sale of alcohol on Sunday might pass Supreme Court scrutiny, the other few remaining blue laws probably wouldn't pass today's Supreme Court's scrutiny.
It doesn't matter what the founding fathers personal beliefs were or what the religious affliation of the people was at the time. The founding fathers expressly forbid the establishment of a state religion which would include the overbroad title of being a Christian nation. The founding fathers were aware that different religions existed and still did not officially declare anywhere that the US was a Christian nation. In fact, they enshrined secularism in the Constitution by expressly forbidding the establishment of a state religion (for both the federal and state governments).
Incorrect. Art VI applied to federal office holders only and judicial opinions are often based on the ideology of the jurists writing the decision meaning other jurists could interpret it differently. Many constitutional scholars believe the court erred in applying the establishment clause to the states since apparently it was written to protect the religious power of the states from infringement by the federal government.

Art VI and federal office holders

"In response to widespread sentiment that to survive the United States needed a stronger federal government, a convention met in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787 and on September 17 adopted the Constitution of the United States. Aside from Article VI, which stated that "no religious Test shall ever be required as Qualification" for FEDERAL OFFICE HOLDERS, the Constitution said little about religion."

Religion and the Founding of the American Republic

James H. Hutson
Chief Historian
Manuscript Division
Library of Congress

The Article VI ban (APPLICABLE TO FEDERAL OFFICE HOLDERS ONLY) was not driven by a radical secular agenda or a renunciation of religious tests as a matter of principle.
A Godless Constitution?: A Response to Kramnick and Moore
by Daniel L. Dreisbach

The only reference to religion in the original Constitution, Article VI is written in the form of an unequivocal denial of any place to be given to religious considerations in determining qualifications for public office. The prohibition applied at this time, of course ONLY TO FEDERAL OFFICE, not state or local.
Journal of Church and State 29 (Spring 1987)
James E.Wood Jr

Of course we know that state requirements for a belief in God to hold office were certainly not unconstitutional when written despite your claim. We have the authority of Justice Joseph Story and Thomas Jefferson to confirm my claim.

"Thus, the whole power over the subject of religion is left exclusively to the state governments, to be acted upon according to their own sense of justice, and the state constitutions..."
Joseph Story
Associate Justice of the Supreme Court 1811-1845

"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies."
-Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805.
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#89 May 30, 2012
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>

John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington
Of these, only John Jay can be considered an orthodox Christian.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
"I believe [that]... once restored to an independent government & no longer persecuted they [the Jews] would soon wear away some of the asperities and peculiarities of their character & possibly in time become liberal Unitarian Christians for your Jehovah is our Jehovah & your God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is our God.
John Adams to Mordecai Manuel Noah- 1818

"History will also afford the frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion, from its usefulness to the public; the advantage of a religious character among private persons; the mischiefs of superstition, &c. and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
Benjamin Franklin, Proposals Relating to the Education of Youth in Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, 1749), p. 22.


"I have tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty; through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me."
Alexander Hamilton

"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of Religion or against temporal Enjoyments even the most rational and manly than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent Advocates in the cause of Christ, and I wish you may give in your Evidence in this way."
James Madison

"Unto Him who is the Author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved Son."
John Jay

"The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I as chief Magistrate of this nation am bound to give it the sanction of my example. "
Thomas Jefferson
"Washington Parish, Washington City" by Reverend Ethan Allen
Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress
research by Emily C. Howie, Reference Librarian, Main Reading Room, Library of Congress


George Washington
"Without making ostentatious professions of religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly devout man."

Chief Justice of the Supreme Court John Marshall-1826


Is it necessary that any one should certify, "General Washington avowed himself to me a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."
With sentiments of esteem,
I am, Nelly Custis-Lewis
(George Washington's adopted daughter)
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#90 May 30, 2012
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>

Who were the Founding Fathers? American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the "key" Founding Fathers:
John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington
Of these, only John Jay can be considered an orthodox Christian.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
Why would your author leave out Roger Sherman?

Roger Sherman is cited by many historians as the second most important founder after James Madison and he has the credentials to support that claim.
Roger Sherman was a member of the Continental Congress and was on the committee that drafted the Declaration of Independence. He not only helped draft all four great state papers of the United States: the United States Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Association, the Articles of Confederation, and the United States Constitution, he is the only founding father to sign all four documents. Only one other person, Robert Morris, signed 3 of these documents (not the Articles of Association).James Madison's notes from the Constitutional Convention convention credited Sherman with delivering one hundred and thirty-eight (138) speeches to the convention delegates.

The Connecticut Compromise (also known as the Great Compromise of 1787 or Sherman's Compromise) was an agreement between large and small states reached during the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 that in part defined the legislative structure and representation that each state would have under the United States Constitution. It proposed a bicameral legislature, resulting in the current United States Senate and House of Representatives.

Sherman’s "Great Compromise" was adopted on July 16, 1787 by a vote of five states to four, and served to not only save the convention from ruin, but provided the stimulus to resolve additional issues that had yet to be decided.

Roger Sherman was a devout Christian so perhaps your author had a bit of a bias.

"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him.... I believe that the souls of believers are at their death made perfectly holy and immediately taken to glory: that at the end of this world there will be a resurrection of the dead and a final judgement of all mankind when the righteous shall be publically acquitted by Christ the Judge and admitted to everlasting life and glory, and the wicked be sentenced to everlasting punishment."
Roger Sherman
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#91 May 30, 2012
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
d B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the "key" Founding Fathers:
John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington
Of these, only John Jay can be considered an orthodox Christian.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
Webster's Dictionary of 1828 defines a Founding Father(capital letters) as "a member of the American Constitutional Convention of 1787" which technically would eliminate Thomas Jefferson. Just saying.

According to a separationist site the following were, by their criteria, the most important founding fathers I have listed the religious affiliation of the top ten .

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/founder1.ht...

James Madison was an Episcopalian.

Roger Sherman was a Congregationalist.

James Wilson was an Episcopalian and a Presbyterian.

Rufus King was an Episcopalian and (according to some sources) a Congregationalist.

Elbridge Gerry was an Episcopalian.

Edmund J. Randolph was an Episcopalian.

George Mason was an Episcopalian.

Alexander Hamilton was a Presbyterian and an Episcopalian.

Gouverneur Morris was an Episcopalian.

John Rutledge was an Episcopalian.

“WAY TO GO”

Since: Mar 11

IRELAND

#92 May 30, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would your author leave out Roger Sherman?
Roger Sherman is cited by many historians as the second most important founder after James Madison and he has the credentials to support that claim.
Roger Sherman was a member of the Continental Congress and was on the committee that drafted the Declaration of Independence. He not only helped draft all four great state papers of the United States: the United States Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Association, the Articles of Confederation, and the United States Constitution, he is the only founding father to sign all four documents. Only one other person, Robert Morris, signed 3 of these documents (not the Articles of Association).James Madison's notes from the Constitutional Convention convention credited Sherman with delivering one hundred and thirty-eight (138) speeches to the convention delegates.
The Connecticut Compromise (also known as the Great Compromise of 1787 or Sherman's Compromise) was an agreement between large and small states reached during the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 that in part defined the legislative structure and representation that each state would have under the United States Constitution. It proposed a bicameral legislature, resulting in the current United States Senate and House of Representatives.
Sherman’s "Great Compromise" was adopted on July 16, 1787 by a vote of five states to four, and served to not only save the convention from ruin, but provided the stimulus to resolve additional issues that had yet to be decided.
Roger Sherman was a devout Christian so perhaps your author had a bit of a bias.
"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him.... I believe that the souls of believers are at their death made perfectly holy and immediately taken to glory: that at the end of this world there will be a resurrection of the dead and a final judgement of all mankind when the righteous shall be publically acquitted by Christ the Judge and admitted to everlasting life and glory, and the wicked be sentenced to everlasting punishment."
Roger Sherman
Did Roger Sherman actually sign anything, like the Constitution?
Xstain Fatwass Central

Philadelphia, PA

#93 May 30, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect. Art VI applied
Hey bigot, your lying aside, there's no difference between the US being a Christian theocracy - it isn't - and the US favoring Christianity over all other religions.

It is clear from the Establishment Clause that government policies which favor one religion do, by definition, establish one religion.

Your BS about which Founder was Christian, or how many Christians there are in the country, or what this or that bizarrely proffered legal or statute means has nothing to offer on this simple, central, accepted point.
Hoodathunkit

De Graff, OH

#94 May 30, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect. Art VI applied to federal office holders only and judicial opinions are often based on the ideology of the jurists writing the decision meaning other jurists could interpret it differently. Many constitutional scholars believe the court erred in applying the establishment clause to the states since apparently it was written to protect the religious power of the states from infringement by the federal government.
Art VI and federal office holders
"In response to widespread sentiment that to survive the United States needed a stronger federal government, a convention met in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787 and on September 17 adopted the Constitution of the United States. Aside from Article VI, which stated that "no religious Test shall ever be required as Qualification" for FEDERAL OFFICE HOLDERS, the Constitution said little about religion."
Religion and the Founding of the American Republic
James H. Hutson
Chief Historian
Manuscript Division
Library of Congress
The Article VI ban (APPLICABLE TO FEDERAL OFFICE HOLDERS ONLY) was not driven by a radical secular agenda or a renunciation of religious tests as a matter of principle.
A Godless Constitution?: A Response to Kramnick and Moore
by Daniel L. Dreisbach
The only reference to religion in the original Constitution, Article VI is written in the form of an unequivocal denial of any place to be given to religious considerations in determining qualifications for public office. The prohibition applied at this time, of course ONLY TO FEDERAL OFFICE, not state or local.
Journal of Church and State 29 (Spring 1987)
James E.Wood Jr
Of course we know that state requirements for a belief in God to hold office were certainly not unconstitutional when written despite your claim. We have the authority of Justice Joseph Story and Thomas Jefferson to confirm my claim.
"Thus, the whole power over the subject of religion is left exclusively to the state governments, to be acted upon according to their own sense of justice, and the state constitutions..."
Joseph Story
Associate Justice of the Supreme Court 1811-1845
"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies."
-Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805.
Article 6 specifically states "both of the United States and the several states".
The Supreme Court found in 1940 that the states are expressly prohibited by Article 6 of the Constitution of creating legislation in favor of any religion or religious views, promoting any religion or religious views, and establishing a state religion. The court further stated that the wall of separation between church and state was meant to protect both religious and non-religious citizens from state sponsored religious views.
The Supreme Court found in 1961 that state laws requiring an acknowledgement or belief in God were unconstitutional according to Article 6 and reaffirmed the findings of the 1940 Supreme court ruling.
The current Supreme Court rulings (1940 and 1961) are that the states are clearly bound to Article 6 of the US Constitution when it comes to religious tests to hold office.
The Supreme Court also ruled that the clause forbidding Congress to establish a state religion applies to all congresses within the US both federal and state.
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#95 May 30, 2012
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Roger Sherman actually sign anything, like the Constitution?
He was the only person to sign all four great state papers of the U.S.:

the Continental Association,
the Declaration of Independence
the Articles of Confederation
the U.S.Constitution
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#96 May 30, 2012
Xstain Fatwass Central wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey bigot, your lying aside, there's no difference between the US being a Christian theocracy - it isn't - and the US favoring Christianity over all other religions.
It is clear from the Establishment Clause that government policies which favor one religion do, by definition, establish one religion.
Your BS about which Founder was Christian, or how many Christians there are in the country, or what this or that bizarrely proffered legal or statute means has nothing to offer on this simple, central, accepted point.


With all that fiery B.S., don't burst into flames on us
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#97 May 30, 2012
Hoodathunkit wrote:
<quoted text>
Article 6 specifically states "both of the United States and the several states".
The Supreme Court found in 1940 that the states are expressly prohibited by Article 6 of the Constitution of creating legislation in favor of any religion or religious views, promoting any religion or religious views, and establishing a state religion. The court further stated that the wall of separation between church and state was meant to protect both religious and non-religious citizens from state sponsored religious views.
The Supreme Court found in 1961 that state laws requiring an acknowledgement or belief in God were unconstitutional according to Article 6 and reaffirmed the findings of the 1940 Supreme court ruling.
The current Supreme Court rulings (1940 and 1961) are that the states are clearly bound to Article 6 of the US Constitution when it comes to religious tests to hold office.
The Supreme Court also ruled that the clause forbidding Congress to establish a state religion applies to all congresses within the US both federal and state.
When written, the establishment clause was a restriction on the federal government only and states were free to have an established church if they so desired.

The First Amendment to the US Constitution explicitly forbids the U.S. federal government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids either designating an official church for the United States, or interfering with State and local official churches — which were common when the First Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state governments from establishing official churches. Connecticut continued to do so until she replaced her colonial Charter with the Connecticut Constitution of 1818; Massachusetts did not disestablish its official church until 1833, more than forty years after the ratification of the First Amendment; and local official establishments of religion persisted even later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church

Mr. Chief Justice MARSHALL delivered the unanimous opinion of the court.(8-0)

"In compliance with a sentiment thus generally expressed, to quiet fears thus extensively entertained, amendments(Bill of Rights) were proposed by the required majority in Congress and adopted by the States. These amendments contain no expression indicating an intention to apply them to the State governments. This court CANNOT so apply them

Barron v. Mayor & City Council of Baltimore,
32 U.S. 243 (1833)

"the Constitution makes no provision for protecting the citizens of the respective States in their religious liberties; this is left to the state constitutions and laws: nor is there any inhibition imposed by the Constitution of the United States in this respect on the states."

Permoli v. Municipality,
44 U.S.(3 Howard) 589, 609 (1845).

The establishment clause was only incorporated under the 14th Amendment in 1947 to restrict the states and as I mentioned many scholars believed they did err in doing so. Here are just two examples-

"To apply the [Establishment] clause against a state government is precisely to eliminate its right to choose whether to establish a religion -- a right explicitly confirmed by the establishment clause itself!... The Fourteenth Amendment might best be read as incorporating free exercise, but not establishment, principles against state governments."
Yale Law Professor Akhil Reed Amar, The Bill of Rights as a Constitution, 100 Yale L.J. 1131, 1157-58 (1991)


"It may be, for example, that the Supreme Court was mistaken in Everson both in asserting that the Fourteenth Amendment was intended to incorporate the Establishment Clause against the states and also in asserting that the Establishment Clause was intended to adopt a position of "no aid' separationism."
Steven D. Smith, Separation as a Tradition, 18 J.L. & Pol. 215, 263 (2002)









“WAY TO GO”

Since: Mar 11

IRELAND

#98 May 30, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
He was the only person to sign all four great state papers of the U.S.:
the Continental Association,
the Declaration of Independence
the Articles of Confederation
the U.S.Constitution
Interesting!
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#99 May 30, 2012
Xstain Fatwass Central wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey bigot, your lying aside, there's no difference between the US being a Christian theocracy - it isn't - and the US favoring Christianity over all other religions.
It is clear from the Establishment Clause that government policies which favor one religion do, by definition, establish one religion.
Your BS about which Founder was Christian, or how many Christians there are in the country, or what this or that bizarrely proffered legal or statute means has nothing to offer on this simple, central, accepted point.
let's see ,did the federal government favor one religion over another and if so, did that establish a religion?

"By 1867, the church in the Capitol had become the largest church in Washington, and the largest Protestant church in America."

James Hutson, Chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress, Religion and the Founding of the American Republic 91 (Washington, D. C.: Library of Congress

Apparently the federal government did favor one religion, namely Christianity, and no, the favoritism did not establish Christianity as the official religion of the nation.

See how easy you are?
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#100 May 30, 2012
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting!


In addition,we can't ignore James Wilson who was also an important Founding Father,

James Wilson
"His influence in drawing up the Constitution was second only to that of James Madison. He was active in drafting the Pennsylvania constitution of 1790 and served as Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court (1789–98). He was the first professor of law (1789) at the College of Philadelphia. Wilson wrote a number of pamphlets, addresses, treatises, and lectures on law."
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0852389...

James Wilson was a member of the Continental Congress, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, a signer of the US Constitution and appointed to the US Supreme Court by George Washington.
..........
"Wilson was among the most influential delegates at the Convention. One of eighteenth-century America's foremost political theorists and advocates of democracy, he cooperated with James Madison in promoting popular sovereignty, especially in the election of congressmen, and led the opposition against those delegates who sought to reserve special rights and privileges for the rich and well-born."
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/RevWar/ss/wi...

..........
"Wilson's work at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 is considered by many to be second in importance only to James Madison."
http://www.michaelariens.com/ConLaw/justices/...

..........
"James Wilson was so knowledgeable on the subject of government that he was generally regarded as the most erudite of all the learned Founding Fathers. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wilson

“WAY TO GO”

Since: Mar 11

IRELAND

#101 May 30, 2012
I am curious as to how this thread got so far off topic.....lol!!!
Xstain Fatwass Central

Philadelphia, PA

#102 May 30, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
let's see ,did the federal government favor one religion over another
Hey dumb, lying bigot:

Don't reply four times separately to each one of my posts, you spastic idiot.

I know the government has fallen short in many ways, partly because this is a majority Christian nation and because Christians have historically run rough shod over other religions. So you pointed to yet another illegal aberration by the government, again from your favorite time period of slave owning and/or the hangover period from slave owning.

This has nothing to do the Establishment Clause, which is understood to require a separation of church and state, however imperfectly certain judges and religious freeeks manage to do this. Or xstain theocrats who insist on lying they are not xstain theocrats, as in your case.

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