Wells Fargo facing allegation of wron...

Wells Fargo facing allegation of wrongful foreclosure in Aptos home sale

There are 78 comments on the Santa Cruz Sentinel story from Dec 1, 2010, titled Wells Fargo facing allegation of wrongful foreclosure in Aptos home sale. In it, Santa Cruz Sentinel reports that:

After working in real estate for 15 years, Ron Ward is in the fight of his life, suing his lender, Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, for wrongful foreclosure to get back the dream house he built in Aptos.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Santa Cruz Sentinel.

Robert

Santa Clara, CA

#21 Dec 1, 2010
Brigid wrote:
What the Wards have gone through is identical in form to what at least 3 of my friends -- whose mortgage payments were WAY less - have gone through with Wells Fargo.
Please trashcan all personal judgments about the Wards and their lifestyle and LOOK at the general outlines of what the banks are doing with regard to these mortgage modifications; this could happen to anyone
No...sme of us live within our means...have a 6 month reserve in the bank...drive sensible cars

But I see your point. If you beleive that since property values had soared at a rate that far outpaced incomes and would continue to ad infinitum...and leveraged the value of your house again and again to by "labels" to impress your friends and family...and then found out that the market could not sustain it's double digit growth forever...yeah, then I guess it could happen to you!
JJJ

Vallejo, CA

#22 Dec 1, 2010
your smug 6 month reserve could be wiped out in a blink by trip to an emergency room.

then what?
Neighbor

Los Gatos, CA

#23 Dec 1, 2010
The Sentinel continues to publish these one sided stories that contribute to the publics miss conceived views of reality. These people did not make a payment on there house for over a year. Their lender has no obligation to modify their loan. The lender already showed them leniency by not foreclosing after 60 days had gone by from when the notice of default was filed. The owner says he is a Realtor? Then he would have known these laws in order to pass his state license exam...

Stop making these Banks look like they are the ones at fault. They are just trying to close out a bad investment. That house is worth 1/2 of what he stated.
Brigid

Santa Cruz, CA

#24 Dec 1, 2010
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
No...sme of us live within our means...have a 6 month reserve in the bank...drive sensible cars
But I see your point. If you beleive that since property values had soared at a rate that far outpaced incomes and would continue to ad infinitum...and leveraged the value of your house again and again to by "labels" to impress your friends and family...and then found out that the market could not sustain it's double digit growth forever...yeah, then I guess it could happen to you!
You still don't get it, do you? Banks are foreclosing on houses to which they have no right. They are not doing things in a timely fashion and are following proper procedures or giving proper notifications. In at least 3 cases they foreclosed on houses that had no mortgage at all. Such is the case when you have a faulty electronic database (MERS),employ robo-signers, and employ retired judges to sign off on hundreds of cases per day.

Do some research. Start here.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/173...
Robert

Santa Clara, CA

#25 Dec 1, 2010
JJJ wrote:
your smug 6 month reserve could be wiped out in a blink by trip to an emergency room.
then what?
Nope....I am insured! Max I will pay in any given year $2500!

In one year I had an ambulance ride to the ER, a CT Scan, an MRI, a neurological assessment, a sleep study....

$900 out of pocket!
Robert

Santa Clara, CA

#26 Dec 1, 2010
Brigid wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't get it, do you? Banks are foreclosing on houses to which they have no right. They are not doing things in a timely fashion and are following proper procedures or giving proper notifications. In at least 3 cases they foreclosed on houses that had no mortgage at all. Such is the case when you have a faulty electronic database (MERS),employ robo-signers, and employ retired judges to sign off on hundreds of cases per day.
Do some research. Start here.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/173...
How can a bank foreclose on a house when they don't carry a note?
It has to go through a court proceeding and be checked against the deed. You do some research! A foreclosure proceeding requires lawful steps to be taken and if you fail to make payments as agreed don't expect the banks to carry you forever! Yes banks made bad decisions in funding some of these loans...but stated income loans and 5 yr adjustable / interest only loans were the drug of choice for greedy investors who thought the market would go on forever! Me, I'll stick with a 30yr conventional and pay a little extra principal each month.
Neighbor

Los Gatos, CA

#27 Dec 1, 2010
Brigid wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't get it, do you? Banks are foreclosing on houses to which they have no right. They are not doing things in a timely fashion and are following proper procedures or giving proper notifications. In at least 3 cases they foreclosed on houses that had no mortgage at all. Such is the case when you have a faulty electronic database (MERS),employ robo-signers, and employ retired judges to sign off on hundreds of cases per day.
Do some research. Start here.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/173...
How does NOT making your payments constitute wrongful foreclosure??
Robert

Santa Clara, CA

#28 Dec 1, 2010
Brigid,

Do a little research before you go citing a Blogger who dropped acid at a major debate during the 2004 presidential campaign. A pillar of journalistic integrity he is not!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taibbi
Telmark

Durham, CA

#29 Dec 1, 2010
1. Homeowners, in nearly every case, must have a verifiable reason for falling behind on their mortgage payments before they can expect a loan modification. In other words, you can not willfully stop your mortgage payments in an effort to qualify for a refinance option. Nor can you voluntarily spend yourself into an even greater debt load with frivolous purchases in order to do so.

2. Sensible people should know better than to voluntarily quit their mortgage payments due to a verbal exchange on the phone (rather than in accordance to a written and signed document). Anyone with even a minimal amount of experience in real estate should, without doubt, know and understand this.

3. It seems far more likely that certain people took the statement that "you must be currently behind in your mortgage payments in order to be considered for a loan modification" as meaning that you should "stop making your payments". However, some degree of verbal deception may have been used by some banks in this regard. The problem is proving such deception in court (this is why documentation is both required and provided for nearly every transaction that you make).

4. Homeowners that have both a reasonable and verifiable excuse for the need to modify or refinance their home loans should be given the opportunity to do so IMO (i.e. unexpected health care issues, job loss, etc). These homeowners must first, however, be able to show their ability to stay current with their prospective loan modification.

5. A very small percentage of wrongful foreclosures have, without doubt, taken place (these will, most likely, be corrected in court).
jojo

Santa Cruz, CA

#30 Dec 1, 2010
Hey Robert,

Setting aside for a moment the case at hand, you aren't reading the news about bank and servicer malfeasance and of busy courts looking the other way as affidavits with factual inaccuracies are being allowed to be admitted in many foreclosure cases. Ownership changes, as mortgages are sold from originator into trusts(Mortgage Backed Securities)are not being recorded in many cases and clearly there is great confusion as to whether servicers and or banks have standing to foreclose based on the various state laws.

Banks and servicers are not geared up to deal with foreclosures and loan mods and are clearly reeling from the volume.

The FED is not enforcing the level of mark to market on bank real estate portfolios required to match reality and to put pressure on banks to write down their inflated loans. This in turn is allowing banks to dilly dally and string borrowers along one day or go schizoid the next day and foreclose. Banks are scared and irrational.

The article talks about a loan modification agreement that may or may not be in existence and may or not have been offered by Wells to the couple. A judge will decide which, not much more to say on that topic.
Hells Fargo

Vallejo, CA

#31 Dec 1, 2010
When village idiots have offspring, the result is Wells Fargo Bank. How such a collective of mindless
fools can be under one company heading is beyond comprehension.
Know it all

United States

#32 Dec 1, 2010
One more disgusting situation caused by the guys at the top. Talk to Barney Frank and Bill Clinton. Ask them now if they still think every american should own a home. The fallout will continue for years!
Frankly even though I find fault with policitians and banks I also feel that people who took on financially irresponsible obligations need to just face the music.
It's all about GREED. Every party to this mess is in it due to greed. Does anyone buy a home and just live in it with a thankful heart? No .. they want MORE.
been there

Monterey, CA

#33 Dec 1, 2010
ooo....ooo.... ooo

Poor guys. No red tag or warning. Shame.
But standard comments seem to be if it didn't happen to one making a comment - laugh/ blame the victim "those richy-rich people deserved that- should have seen it coming!''

That sort of opinion is not all that amusing. Nor just another home situation to 'pooh-pooh' off.
trisha0790

Walnut Creek, CA

#34 Dec 1, 2010
JJJ wrote:
your smug 6 month reserve could be wiped out in a blink by trip to an emergency room.
then what?
That's why people have health insurance, hello! 6 months reserve sounds very smart and reasonable to me.
been there

Stockton, CA

#35 Dec 1, 2010
Neighbor wrote:
The Sentinel continues to publish these one sided stories that contribute to the publics miss conceived views of reality. These people did not make a payment on there house for over a year. Their lender has no obligation to modify their loan. The lender already showed them leniency by not foreclosing after 60 days had gone by from when the notice of default was filed. The owner says he is a Realtor? Then he would have known these laws in order to pass his state license exam...
Stop making these Banks look like they are the ones at fault. They are just trying to close out a bad investment. That house is worth 1/2 of what he stated.
What it is worth is not the point. It's what the payment structure is that matters. If you can make the mortgage payments it doesn't matter if you are above or below water, you are still able to pay and meet the obligations of the loan. It's when you try to modify the loan they (the banks) screw things up, and want the property back, even when you have the ability to pay. You may have had 2 incomes to qualify for the loan, now have one. On paper you don't make enough income to qualify for the loan, old one or the new one. However, you have been paying the old loan on time. Income is not the only way to make payments. I myself have money in reserve, can sell other assets, or have access to family money if needed. You may forced to keep the old rotten loan that you are paying on, because the bank can't touch that. Try to modify, and they wipe you out through delays, lost paperwork, and a host of other things that defeat you. I have a loan with WFB also, and refuse to talk with them just to avoid problems. But I'm underwater so can't refinance elsewhere. The govt assistance programs are not working for the consumer, and probably the banks either. Blame Barney Franks and his cronies and the regulators for letting this happen, or actually encouraging it. ps: I have worked for banks for 40+ years and know first hand they make collosal mistakes all the time, and hire incompetent staff.
Sara

Pacifica, CA

#36 Dec 1, 2010
Brigid wrote:
What the Wards have gone through is identical in form to what at least 3 of my friends -- whose mortgage payments were WAY less - have gone through with Wells Fargo.
Please trashcan all personal judgments about the Wards and their lifestyle and LOOK at the general outlines of what the banks are doing with regard to these mortgage modifications; this could happen to anyone:
1) They ignore your request for a modification until you've stopped paying your mortgage.
Sometimes they even tell you to stop paying.
2) When they start the modification process they drag it out for as long as possible -- continually losing documents, requesting resubmissions, kicking you off the list if you don't contact them every month to see what's going on, or passing you off to different people who know nothing and make you start all over.
3)They simultaneously start foreclosure proceedings because you've stopped paying your mortgage.
4)Then, in some cases, they will finally get back to you with a modification offer, telling you there's a 3 mo probation period.
5)You dutifully pay your for 3 months, then hear nothing from them. When you contact them about it they tell you they will soon be making a final decision about you. You are confused because you thought that paying your reduced payments dutifully meant you were "in."
6)At this point they will do one of three things, or sometimes a combination of them:
**Demand payment of all that is in arrears and threaten to foreclose if you don't.
**Offer you a permanent modification, send you the paperwork but never send you back a copy they've signed.
**Foreclose anyhow (with the help of robo-signers) and sell your property without notifying you to some scammy little newly formed company that buys up & resells foreclosures.
Many of these foreclosure cases are not about living within ones means (of course some are!). Banks are getting away with criminal behavior. THAT is what you should be paying attention to and demand Congress to do something about.
We have been going through this for months, and everything you said is happening. We have had to resubmit paperwork 3 different times starting from the very beginning. The bank is constantly losing documents or changing representatives or requesting the wrong document. The first guy we were working with nobody at the bank has even heard of now. We lost our business and now have extremely reduced income, yet we still almost live within our means, drive modest cars and should be perfect candidates for a loan mod. We want to stay in our home and we are not under water, which is most likely why they dont want to modify. If they foreclose we owe less than the house is worth. Why is it so hard just to reduce our payments a little bit, extend the loan a few years. I know people say we signed on the dotted line, and i agree but shite happens sometimes. Plus I am annoed that chase now owns my mortgage, I signed papers with wachovia,
confused

Stockton, CA

#37 Dec 1, 2010
been there wrote:
ooo....ooo.... ooo
Poor guys. No red tag or warning. Shame.
But standard comments seem to be if it didn't happen to one making a comment - laugh/ blame the victim "those richy-rich people deserved that- should have seen it coming!''
That sort of opinion is not all that amusing. Nor just another home situation to 'pooh-pooh' off.
You don't know what the hell you are talking about, and your comments don't even make sense. What is your point anyway? This has nothing to do with being rich or middle class, or working class. It's the legal process to modify a loan or restructure that is broken, and is being manipulated by the lenders, probably in more than one illegal method, not necessarily intentional either. People just don't know what they are doing in the loan departments of most financial institutions.
On target reply

Stockton, CA

#38 Dec 1, 2010
jojo wrote:
Hey Robert,
Setting aside for a moment the case at hand, you aren't reading the news about bank and servicer malfeasance and of busy courts looking the other way as affidavits with factual inaccuracies are being allowed to be admitted in many foreclosure cases. Ownership changes, as mortgages are sold from originator into trusts(Mortgage Backed Securities)are not being recorded in many cases and clearly there is great confusion as to whether servicers and or banks have standing to foreclose based on the various state laws.
Banks and servicers are not geared up to deal with foreclosures and loan mods and are clearly reeling from the volume.
The FED is not enforcing the level of mark to market on bank real estate portfolios required to match reality and to put pressure on banks to write down their inflated loans. This in turn is allowing banks to dilly dally and string borrowers along one day or go schizoid the next day and foreclose. Banks are scared and irrational.
The article talks about a loan modification agreement that may or may not be in existence and may or not have been offered by Wells to the couple. A judge will decide which, not much more to say on that topic.
Now, this poster knows what he's talking about! One of the best factual descriptions of what is really going on. Not too many business editors at a newspaper or Yahoo, MSN, MSNBC, etc. could do as good a job as this. Very helpful.
disabuser

Courtland, CA

#39 Dec 1, 2010
aphr wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as the property is in litigation ( could take years), they are effectives living rent free. I know of someone who is still in their homes after 3 years of not paying their mortgage.
The bigger issue is not about the lifestyles of this couple, but how the banks(s) are violating disclosure law in these foreclosure sales.
Is that true? The house has been foreclosed upon. Is the existence of a lawsuit all it takes to allow people to stay in those houses without paying anything?
On target reply

Stockton, CA

#40 Dec 1, 2010
Sara wrote:
<quoted text>
We have been going through this for months, and everything you said is happening. We have had to resubmit paperwork 3 different times starting from the very beginning. The bank is constantly losing documents or changing representatives or requesting the wrong document. The first guy we were working with nobody at the bank has even heard of now. We lost our business and now have extremely reduced income, yet we still almost live within our means, drive modest cars and should be perfect candidates for a loan mod. We want to stay in our home and we are not under water, which is most likely why they dont want to modify. If they foreclose we owe less than the house is worth. Why is it so hard just to reduce our payments a little bit, extend the loan a few years. I know people say we signed on the dotted line, and i agree but shite happens sometimes. Plus I am annoed that chase now owns my mortgage, I signed papers with wachovia,
That just about sums it up for me too. Very similar circumstances, no help from my lender (WFB. I'm not surprised, just mad at the way the system is allowed to not work and no help from our government representatives. Housing is going to get even worse for perhaps a few more years, before it levels off and maybe even takes an upturn again. Not holding my breath. We're all caught in a vortex.

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