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karensflowers
AOL
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That is merely Navarrette's opinion.
Navarrette's columns are always one-sided and self-serving; it's obvious his heart is with Mexico, and he is not a true journalist.
Of course those criminal employers have to say the illegals 'work ethic' is the reason, not that they are able to pay 1/2 the wages.
America citizens, as we know it from the last century and all that developed during, built this country; not the Mexicans.
Navarrette should be ashamed for continually insulting Americans; it's obvious his heart and loyalties belong to Mexico.
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reality check
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karensflowers wrote: That is merely Navarrette's opinion.
Navarrette's columns are always one-sided and self-serving; it's obvious his heart is with Mexico, and he is not a true journalist.
Of course those criminal employers have to say the illegals 'work ethic' is the reason, not that they are able to pay 1/2 the wages.
America citizens, as we know it from the last century and all that developed during, built this country; not the Mexicans.
Navarrette should be ashamed for continually insulting Americans; it's obvious his heart and loyalties belong to Mexico. As a Third Generation white American, I can tell you what I see. I see people who think having to work for a living is nonsense when you can get shelter, clothing, food, and utilities donated by someone else. When the government sends you a check every month just because you are breathing, why do an actual job? Ruben tells the truth and is vilified for it.The fact of the matter is that "poor" Americans are much better off thatn the middle class of many countries. The Union Socialists in this country would have you believe that your time is worth a large amount of money and hard work has nothing to do with wages. I have seen it myself. Americans are lazy and self-centered. They have a union mentality that says "I don't get paid enough to do that job". The immigrant work ethic is "where is a job I can do so I can better my living situation?" So, Karensflowers, go get a job cleaning toilets or picking tomatoes or shoveling dirt or sucking septic systems (yes, those kinds of jobs are available right here in good old Indiana)and then tell me how anxious Americans are to do that kind of work. Hell, you can't get an American to work at Burger King for Gawd's sake.
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Mike
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I don't doubt the work ethic the immigrants who come here to work. I have personally been involved with them on the worksite, and they work hard. At the same time they are willing to work for less than American workers. They can do it because they are willing to live with up to 15 other people in a two bedroom apartment so they can pool their money. I saw that too in West Lafayette. Basically, theses folks need to be documented to be here legally. I don't want to support illegal immigrants. And instead of the Mexican government bashing us for our stand on immigration, why haven't they been doing things to improve their county so their people will want to stay there, in their homeland?
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Rena Martin
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Judged:
1
Not all Americans are lazy and not all Mexicans (illegal or otherwise) are hard-workers. I hate absolutes. I have relatives in the construction industry. Half of them are too lazy to do a full days work, but the other half are devoted and have a hard time finding a job in the field anymore because of the glute of illegal labor in this country. Sure there are some good companies out there that just want good workers and are willing to pay...but for every one of them...there is the guy (usually a sub-contractor) picking up illegals off the street corners to cut his spending and reap more profit by under paying people. And it is a FACT that the wages in the meat packing plant were $18/hr back in the 80s and are now closer to $9/hr today...and it IS because they are hiring illegals and depressing the wages. Have you even seen "Dirty Jobs" the tv show on cable? Looks to me like there are quite a few Americans willing to take on the menial, unpleasant jobs... And, maybe with the unions and factories crumbling, you will see more and more people willing to do those jobs.
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Angela Hopson
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I disagree with Flowers. The work ethic of the immigrant population, especially in manual labor positions, far outweighs that of many of their American counterparts. They have more at stake. I once worked with a group of illegal immigrants. If I worked a morning shift - they were there. If I worked a midday shift - they were there. And if I worked night - they were there. In addition to basically living at the place of employment - you never saw them standing idle. Although there are many Americans willing to take on the menial, unpleasant positions - there are many more positions open - then we have hard working, dedicated employees to fill. It is easy for us to see many unemployed, desperate Americans - looking for jobs that they can't obtain because those spots are filled by illegal immigrants. It is not so easy for many of us to look seriously at what businesses have to face - finding a sustainable, dedicated, and quality workforce in some of the nation's least desired postitions.
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LOL
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Give me a break! I too have worked w/these people. People are people, any where you go. There will always be lazy ones and then there are those that care about their work. I have never seen $18.00 per hr. and I guarantee you I have worked for 38 years. With all of the manufacturing leaving Indiana, we need work. We don't need illegals. If most of our jobs have went to Mexico, why do they think they need what few we have left? Call me a moron if it will make you feel better, But I think it's the free ride they're looking for. Whether you agree or not, that's what they're getting and we are footing the bills.
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rich anderson
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Will wrote: Unions have a great part in the declining American work ethic. They have created an entire work force that feels they are victims. Why worry about being a good productive employee when you will make the same money and can't get fired when you are a louse.
It is time for unions to go by the wayside and bring back productivity. As I have to agree with you in that the unions most certainly do play a huge part in the decline of the principal of a work ethic, they themselves are a benefit to the wages that most people find to be comfortable. The problem with the current state of unionism is that they do not police their own members. How can they justify asking for demands when they do not provide the employer with the best possible work force? After all, that is the only "true" bargaining power that they have; "We are providing you with the best possible work force and this is what we want". They could sustain a workforce that is truly skilled in all aspects of the job, moreso than hiring a replacement off the street. Instead you always hear, "that ain't my (or your) job". No wonder our manufacturing sector is in the shape it is in, they did it to themselves with their welfare mentality of "you owe me". If they recall, the employer didn't come knocking on their door saying hey you want to work for us? It is always the other way around, you seek the employer out because you WANT to work. The employer has the obligation to reward only those who want to be there, not just because you showed up. The immigrants I had to deal with did both, and joyfully that they had the job. It was always those with the welfare mentality were the first to scream "I want my Union rep" when their performance was held in comparison to those who were glad to have the job and didn't share their viewpoints of what a worker should be. I should know, I saw it first hand everyday for 15 years and it sickened me to have to pay those dues to what was most certainly not an employee base that was "unionized" with the ethic to actually work with and for an employer.
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Proud Black and Educated
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1) Number one unions are dead and Reagan killed them by breaking the air traffic controllers union. How can a union win concessions when their only form of threatening employers, strikes, can be overturned by the government? Furthermore the way the law is set up today it is almost impossible to unionize. No wonder American wages are stagnant while corporate CEO’s and investors are raking in the dough. Go read about the turn of the Century and you’ll see a similar pattern. You will also notice that within 20 years there was a great depression caused by these same economic factors.
2) The crap about hard workers cracks me up. Why are Illegals twice as likely to get injured doing the exact same job as any other legal worker regardless of race? Because employers can cut costs like basic safety measures because they know the Illegals aren't going to complain. You see it in meat packing, where there are still far too many injuries. I saw it first hand when an old building was renovated in my home town and I saw Illegals working in regular cloths while the American bosses were in full environmentally protective suits to prevent exposure to asbestos. I am far from a basher of illegals, but, in the jobs they usually take: construction and meat packing, wages have stayed exactly the same over the last 20 years. With inflation this is impossible unless you just don't pay people a living wage.
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cjv
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Mr. Navarrette, the voice of the illegal alien propaganda. How many times are you going to write your b.s. articles in hope that any legal American will buy them. Your appeal is to illegals, La Raza and other Hispanics who feel the U.S. owes them something. Illegal means illegal.
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cjv
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I totally agree with Ms. Flowers. Mr. Navarette always writes these articles that would appeal to illegal aliens. Does he think he is believable. Thank goodness the U.S. has immigration law. otherwise the U.S. would resemble Mexico and we would have newspapers with too many Navarettes! karensflowers wrote: That is merely Navarrette's opinion.
Navarrette's columns are always one-sided and self-serving; it's obvious his heart is with Mexico, and he is not a true journalist.
Of course those criminal employers have to say the illegals 'work ethic' is the reason, not that they are able to pay 1/2 the wages.
America citizens, as we know it from the last century and all that developed during, built this country; not the Mexicans.
Navarrette should be ashamed for continually insulting Americans; it's obvious his heart and loyalties belong to Mexico.
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Delta Faucet Worker
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Navarette gets it.
I was out on Sunday near Broad Ripple. Saw a crew of Hispanics re-roofing an apartment complex, three stories up, probably -20 windchill up there. Laughing, working hard. No bitching about it being cold, being sunday, or wanting to be at home watching 6 hours of pre-game for the Colts. I'm sure there are thousands of people who wanted that job....NOT.
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ALYSSA PEREZ LOS ANGELES
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Judged:
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1
IM AN IMMMAGRANT THIS IS STUPID!!
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Too Much Gobmint
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I don't read this guy enough to know where he stands on the "labor movement" but if this column is typical I'd have to say he's anti-labor. It comes of as a diatribe based on uninformed perceptions. About 30 states are "employment-at-will" states. An employee can complain all he/she wants but the employer can always say 'my way or the highway,' since employment-at-will means the employer can terminate without cause. Unless the workers are in a union the employer is god.
I saw the Tom Brokaw report Navarrette cites and frankly found it a poor job by someone I thought was a top notch journalist. As I recall the report focused mostly the employers' perspective. As for Naverrette's remark that the reason a contractor couldn't keep people in $15 an hour dangerous construction jobs was "certainly not the wages" indicates his lack of knowledge of wages in that sector.$15/hr is in fact on the low side. Construction work is very unsteady and working 75% of the time is about as good as it gets. Travel requirements can also become extensive and expensive. Then there's all day exposure regardless of the weather, and constant health and safety hazards. It's hardly an easy way to raise a family.
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Too Much Gobmint
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Delta Faucet Worker wrote: Navarette gets it. Get's what? That desperate times call for desperate measures? Of course poverty is a great motivator. How's that a new insight? Pain avoidance is also a great motivator. Thus is the employer who's willing to extract free labor from a slave they're holding a whip over without fault? If the workers you saw were illegals and not being paid the going rate, they were being exploited by a lawbreaker. BTW, the wind chill as pretty nasty today too. Drive by the stadium project and see if anyone's working there and whether or not they appear to be illegals. They ARE receiving the prevailing rate.
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Rena Martin
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Too Much Gobmint wrote: <quoted text>
Get's what? That desperate times call for desperate measures? Of course poverty is a great motivator. How's that a new insight? Pain avoidance is also a great motivator. Thus is the employer who's willing to extract free labor from a slave they're holding a whip over without fault?
If the workers you saw were illegals and not being paid the going rate, they were being exploited by a lawbreaker.
BTW, the wind chill as pretty nasty today too. Drive by the stadium project and see if anyone's working there and whether or not they appear to be illegals. They ARE receiving the prevailing rate. EXACTLY!!! Coming from a contruction family...I agree with both of your posts. Of course you wouldn't complain if they could turn you in to the INS if you complained. And I would bust my butt too if I could come here, work for a couple of years, not pay taxes, then go back to my country and live well (by Mexico standards). You get what you pay for. My father was a licensed and bonded brickmason and was VERY good at his job. Now they hire people that have never seen a brick off the streets for a tenth of what my father was paid, but the quality is NOT there. And OF COURSE an employer (who is hiring illegals) would complain about how lazy Americans were in order to make himself look better...
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BTW124
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Judged:
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"One employer told me that when she hired the native-born she got a barrage of questions: "How much does this job pay? What are the benefits? How much vacation time do I get?" But when she hired immigrants, some of whom may have been illegal, she got only one question: "How much work can you give me?" Now, which one would you rather have working for you?"... I'm not sure what to make of the implication that asking how much a job pays or what the benefits are constitutes something unreasonable.
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robert
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Judged:
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Money talks and BS walks.....
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Proud Black and Educated
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BTW124 wrote: "One employer told me that when she hired the native-born she got a barrage of questions: "How much does this job pay? What are the benefits? How much vacation time do I get?" But when she hired immigrants, some of whom may have been illegal, she got only one question: "How much work can you give me?" Now, which one would you rather have working for you?"...
I'm not sure what to make of the implication that asking how much a job pays or what the benefits are constitutes something unreasonable. In the early 1900's we used to have child labor because they worked as hard as you wanted and didn't ask questions, so why don't we bring that back? Although I am for Mexican's being able to work in the US (FOR MINNIMUM WAGE), your logic is faulty. For one you ignore what I pointed out earlier about dangerous working conditions. I mean who wants to hire an American who's scared the machine will cut his arm off when I can hire an Illegal who I tell I’m going to contact the INS if he complains. Finally, in the long run, hiring cheap Illegal labor will cost this country. At first when they come to the US they don't complain and work hard at McDonalds, etc ... But the next Generation isn't happy with this, and gets ticked when their upward mobility stalls. Why do you think crimes by Latino's Chinese, and former Eastern Block immigrants have sky rocketed.
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Betsy
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This 'explanation' lets the employer off the hook for workplace safety, a living wage, and 100 years of labor rights progress.
There is an economics to illegal immigration that we all see. The larger numbers of people per housing unit, the lower standard of living, the utilization of various types of public assistance, using the emergency room as their primary physician (because they don't have health insurance), not having drivers liability insurance, etc.
If we are not willing to live like I just described, does that make us unreasonable and greedy? Does that mean we're not willing to work hard? Or does it mean that pumping huge numbers of desperate, docile people into our labor market is diluting and undercutting the value of the American worker?
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Jorge Ramos
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Rubins full of shit. It's not work ethics, it's someone willing to take $10.00 an hour, live 5 to 10 people in an apartment or house and live in a $20.00 an hour economy. Fine/jail these employers of ILLEGAL ALIENS, pay American Citizens a decent living wage. I will not longer frequent or use any establishment that APPEARS to be using ILLEGAL ALIEN SCAB LABOR.
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