Ethanol Strategy Losing Support

[MJayM]

Gerry wrote:

Well, I have seen just about all of the alternatives and the plug-in hybrid is doable today. There is nothing else at this time. I believe with the plug-in hybrid you will reduce the use of gas by half. Here is what I had posted on other sites.
>First you create an energy council. They can cut the red tape and examine future alternatives.
>Second, you need to fix the dollar because we have to compete with other currencies for oil. That will be hard to do.
>Third, you get rid of corn ethanol.
>Fourth, you drill for off shore oil. Only 15% is available at this time.
>Fifth, you pick the two best alternative energies and invest in them.
>Sixth, the last I saw on PBS NOVA the plug in hybrid is the most possible and in fact doable today. You plug your car in at night. The car runs on battery for the first 60 miles and after that gasoline. This would cut out half of the gas we use as most people commute to the store or work on short distances. So if you drive less than 60 miles per day you will never pay for gasoline.
>Seventh, I would give (our government and our tax money,perhaps some oil money) 1 billion dollars to each car company that builds cars in this country. And I would tell them in eight years all cars will be hybrids. The billion dollars will shut them up. This will help get us away from Middle East oil. This will also get the price down with less demand. Other countries will follow and the price of oil will fall further. With the price falling this will help the airlines and anything else that relies on oil.
>Eighth, there are 15 nuclear plants on paper and we also have coal that can be used in FutureGen plants for our electrical grid and the energy council needs to push this fast. But not too fast that you get shoddy workmanship.
>Ninth, the problems include relying on parts for nuclear power from other countries since we don't have those parts. All alternative energies have various problems. All 600 drilling rigs are in use. So at best drilling could only start in 5 years. So with all of this it takes time, even if you start now. That means 5 years, 10 years, 15 years on various aspects of our energy needs.
An assessment will be needed on the amount of copper and other commodities needed in the future for batteries. I have heard other pie in the sky alternatives and there are just too many problems with them, along with supply and demand, pricing, and geopolitical situations.
Now if we could only have a president that knows what he is doing. Unfortunately, the president we have is incompetent.
This is my answer. Even if you start fixing this problem today it would take at least 15 years to see results and frankly I don’t see us lasting 10 years under the present situation, considering the growth of China and other countries.
http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9930421-54.h...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/program.html
chapters 5 and 6

You mention several good, workable, valid solutions. It's important that we embrace a comprehensive plan. Wave, wind, and sun power are also appropriate additions.

It's nice to see the higher gas prices are motivating us toward a long term solution.

[Gerry]

MJayM wrote:

<quoted text>
You mention several good, workable, valid solutions. It's important that we embrace a comprehensive plan. Wave, wind, and sun power are also appropriate additions.
It's nice to see the higher gas prices are motivating us toward a long term solution.

Well, what ever we are doing with the oil situation is not working. We have gone some 40 years when oil prices go up people buy small cars and when oil prices go down people buy big cars. This whipsawing along with stupid policies is killing us and we need a comprehensive plan.

[MJayM]

Gerry wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, what ever we are doing with the oil situation is not working. We have gone some 40 years when oil prices go up people buy small cars and when oil prices go down people buy big cars. This whipsawing along with stupid policies is killing us and we need a comprehensive plan.

1) It was $2.28 when Pelosi was inducted into office with the dimocrat majority.

2) Conservative Republicans have been trying to get another refinery built in this country now for 31 years, and the dimocrats and RINOS won't let it happen, even when Bush tried to allow it.

3) We have the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world in Anwar, Alaska. Its footprint would be 2200 acres of 19 million. Pluck out one hair on your head, that's a slightly smaller amount of space comparitively. Liberals won't let us drill our own oil.

4) We have the largest shale oil reserve in the world bordering 4 states in the Rocky Mountains. Liberals won't let us drill.

5) Exxon/Mobil is making 24 cents off of each gallon. More gallons are used. Record profits. The US gov't is averaging twice that per gallon. Why is it you are blaming the company that provides it?

6) The dollar is competitively down to the Euro by 30 percent compared to 4 years ago; mortgages have plenty to do with it. Anyone mentioning the liberal policy insisting that banks have to lend to those that least qualify? This is what happens when the government steps into the marketplace and demands a change. This change let borrowers borrow more than they could afford, by penalty of law against the banks.

Liberal feel-good policies are costing all of us.

Anyone on here want to mention what policy it was that raised gas prices by the Bush administration when he's been trying to get the additional drilling and refining passed through congress?

That's right, it doesn't exist.

Educate yourselves as to what is actually going on as opposed to whining that the president is all powerful in global economics.

Gerry, I posted this on another gas price forum. I think it's great that people are waking up, I'm worried that they look to Washington DC for the solution.

We have some compromises and tough decisions ahead of us.

It's akin to what we do to build a car with better gas mileage, and it involves trade offs. Looking for ways to save 2% here and 5% there, and you end up being able to cut your usage by a solid 25% or so. That's a huge start.

Alternative energies for electricity generation need to move to the start of the line, right behind acquiring more oil from our own land in the short term. A plan for 2 years, a 5 year goal, and a longer term plan over the next 20.

[There are no Maybes]

Well, now you go to the gas pump and the gas comes out ever so slowly or it struggles to come out. You ask the attendant why. He tells you it's the filters. Filters? Yes. Apparently there are filters at the stations that need to be changed. You look at his face and you can see that he is not telling you everything. Just a few days later, out of the blue, your vehicle shuts down. After extensive investigation, you realize it's your fuel filter which is totally clogged. Unfortuneately for you, the engine has overheated so severly that you have to rebuilt the top of the engine block because there is water in every cylinder. Finally, you do research and learn that this "terrific" alternative absorbs water like crazy, hence the fuel filter clogs in the gas stations and your vehicle. We won't even go into the corrosion factor. Your research informs you that your fuel pump and the gaskets are also at risk of shutting down..........My teenage daughter was driving the truck on a busy expressway when it happened. Be prepared for costly repairs!

Somebody please thank those who are politically responsible for yet another CON JOB on the American people.

http://www.jwardell.com/mini/2006/06/27/ethan...

[There are no Maybes]

http://www.daybreakfishing.com/ethanol-fuel.h... .

THis one covers boats. Wouldn't want to be out in the ocean when it happens.

[There are no Maybes]

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-05-07-voa...

We're getting it coming and going.

(Last paragraph)

"And so what we're finding is that often energy bidders can outbid food buyers and consumers, and the higher the price of oil is the higher the price the energy producers are willing to pay," said Josette Sheeran."

[PATRIOT]

OH, OH AL GORE FOOLED YOU ALL! SUCKER'S!

[ricbee]

Johnboy wrote:

We as a nation need to understand the FACTS. We consume 3.5 billion barrels of gasoline annually in the US. Ethanol contains 70% of the energy in gasoline per gallon. The ethanol yield per acre of corn is only 328 gallons, thus to replace our current gasoline consumption with ethanol, we would require 762 million acres of land growing only corn. This equated to 1/3 of the total US land area including Alaska.
One other little fact is it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanlol than it yields. A lose lose proposition.
So much for burning food. What will the Washington wizards think of next?

A truly horrible idea. The farm lobby can beat the oil lobby any day & twice on Sunday.
I could let Mr Bush slide on a lot of things but not this one. Even a dummy like me can see how bad this idea is.

[Gerry]

MJayM wrote:

<quoted text>
1) It was $2.28 when Pelosi was inducted into office with the dimocrat majority.

Alternative energies for electricity generation need to move to the start of the line, right behind acquiring more oil from our own land in the short term. A plan for 2 years, a 5 year goal, and a longer term plan over the next 20.

You can go to post 18 and you will see my answer to the energy situation. We don't hear from Bush that much. He is sounding off more today, but that is catchup to one month ago when he answered he "did not know the price of gas was going to 4 dollars a gallon."
No matter what the environmentalists are doing, Bush could have gotten the American people him. After all him and Karl Rove sold us on the tax cuts, and it was him and Cheney that sold us on a lie for the war. Yes Bush could do a lot. But with everything else he believes in laissez-faire. Bush could call for an energy council, but he won't. I think Bush is a total joke. I have known about many problems years ago and Bush just keeps them piling up. I talked on these forums against the ethanol that he put in his state of the union message. I have seen him turn a blind eye to managing this country. He believes in his ideology of tax cuts, no cuts in spending, and his war. And all we got was deficits, a debt, and a worthless dollar.
>The value of the dollar is many factors. One could be the psychology with the amount of debt and deficits we have and add to that the speculators in the markets.
>Another factor is the laissez-faire policies of the Bush administration. Bush said in Nov 07 "I believe in a strong dollar" and in Mar 08 he said the same thing and the dollar went lower.
>Another factor is that the fed needs to keep interest rates lower to keep the economy going. This will create the fear of inflation and drive the dollar down. The opposite is true also, you raise interest rates and create a strong dollar. But with the fragile economy we have today that would choke any expansion,
>Another factor is the trade deficit.
>Another factor with the Bush ideology (and I feel he is cheating) is that you lower dollar and we can sell more goods overseas. Certainly, a company like Boeing or Deere have to be doing better. But all this creates other problems and we see what we have to pay for the price of oil.
To stabilize the dollar, Washington needs to be serious in cutting spending and/or raising taxes to fix the budgetary problem. And it needs to put in tight monetary policies. These are all tough choices: like cutting spending-just where are you going to cut without hurting some program. Like raising taxes or higher interest rates which will choke off the economy.
I feel we are painted in a corner and can't get out. All of these problems piling up and the president does nothing and has done nothing in his whole time in office. Bush will go down as the worst president of all time. It is sad to see this country deteriorate before before eyes.

[ricbee]

PATRIOT wrote:

OH, OH AL GORE FOOLED YOU ALL! SUCKER'S!

Yeah,he got all his foolishness made into law without being elected.

[Disgruntled Citizen]

At close to $4.00 a gallon, can we drill in ANWAR yet!!! Also, I have noticed that when I drive out of state my car (small that it is) gets about 20% better gas mileage than the ethanol blended junk which they force me to buy in CT. Doing some simple math in using 10% ethanol blend. I am now burning 1.08 gallons of gas relative to burning real gasoline. Just something to think about.

[MJayM]

Gerry, you exaggerate Bush's influence. Cutting taxes has raised revenue every single time it has been implemented. 1920's (roaring 20's), 1960 (nation loved Kennedy's economic plan), 1980's (Reagan...nuff said. Same problem, dimocrats' spending, but doubled the inflow of fed taxes), and 2001, ending the Clinton recession that began with the suing of Microsoft, effectively bursting the tech bubble in October of 1999.

The mistake was listening to dimocrats and taking their word on deals made. Also acting like one, letting minimum wage rise--giving us more unemployment. Letting dimocrats talk him into this forced lending to help the poor...that led to foreclosures.

We need a conservative again, and there's not one to choose from.