China anger over 'shoddy schools'

This woman lost her child when Juyuan Middle School collapsed The shoddy construction of school buildings may be to blame for the high number of child casualties in China's earthquake, according to state media.

[kathrine]

according to what i've read so far, i think that the government is very unfair with un helping people in need, especially if families have lost their only child. i thought of a plan that might just work, if we get enough people to protest against the rules of having only one child in china. this might be able to pay up for all the crappy buildings the workers have built with the cheap materials. the workers and government are actually responsible for the deaths of students and teachers. only if they had not been so cheap and lazy and bought stronger materials, have of the corps would still be alive.

[Thomas]

Chinese government knew about that for a long time,now they are pretending to be surprised,freaking commies!

[MyView]

That is a necessary police for China's getting better.

[MyView]

Otherwise, China wouldve had a population of 2 billion people.

Maybe that is what west want :

You are poor, stay poor.

[Mad Dog]

Communism excepts the naive notion that all people are altruistic. Which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Communism basically states that the people work for the betterment and properity of the state. In return the state will take care of all the peoples needs (basic needs).

People however like to have possessions and a sense of ownership. Which runs counter to Communism's doctrine.

What has happened to communism is that the state (or more correctly the people who "run" the state)
somehow feel more privledged due to their position within the state. The privledged, in order to hold onto their possessions order the law to protect them from the people and keep things status quo and the people ignorant. Else the people get jealous and speak of overthrow.

Communism works for a few generations until the people find state too greedy. Hence Russia now
China will follow within the next 40 years.

[MyView]

Mad Dog wrote:

.....
. Hence Russia now
China will follow within the next 40 years.

Why did people in Russia give the power back to communist party ?

[MyView]

Actually, I agree with your understanding, annnnnnnnnnnnd, China is no longer a communism by your statement, cuz people now have to take care of themself for every needs, health care, education, etc.

and If you think a little deep, you will find that West idea of human right is one kind of altruism, it only works well when the country is so rich that it can satisfy the appetite of every individual.

[Zsari]

What does shoddy school have anything to do with the one child policy?

Its not the material that's shoddy, but the structural design that obviously have completely ignore the safety standard. China has design requirements, but the enforcement is lax in rural area. Almost all buildings in city such as Chongqing, Chengdu have withstood the earthquake. Rest assure that there will be people held responsible for such lack of regulatory enforcement after the rescue effort. And all public buildings in rural areas of China needs to be reinspected.

[kathrine]

what i mean is that if the chinese government didnt give out such crappy materials but instead of sturdy ones, more people would still be alive.

[kathrine]

actually the chinese being stuck underneath all that rubble is quite a shame.

[MyView]

kathrine wrote:

what i mean is that if the chinese government didnt give out such crappy materials but instead of sturdy ones, more people would still be alive.

Shut up, moron.

You think every chinese can afford a $100,000 house ? not mention most damage was done within a very small circle of epicenter.

You talked like the idiotic chinese emperor in Shui Dynasty, who asked his servant "why didnt they eat chicken ?" when he was told that people were starved to death.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Zsari wrote:

What does shoddy school have anything to do with the one child policy?
Its not the material that's shoddy, but the structural design that obviously have completely ignore the safety standard. China has design requirements, but the enforcement is lax in rural area. Almost all buildings in city such as Chongqing, Chengdu have withstood the earthquake. Rest assure that there will be people held responsible for such lack of regulatory enforcement after the rescue effort. And all public buildings in rural areas of China needs to be reinspected.

Inspection means little when the inspectors can make a lot of money accepting cash in exchange for turning a blind eye to problems.

What China needs to do is send inspectors from outside the local areas. Inspectors who have no ties or relationships with local construction contractors.

[Mad Dog]

MyView wrote:

<quoted text>
Why did people in Russia give the power back to communist party ?

Good question.

Not all the people have returned to communism.

Like anything else there is a fear of the unknown.
Communism was the known. The hardliners of the party wish to return to communism because they got rich and were feared. The younger generation however got tired and frustrated with having they're lives controlled and dictated to them. Music, News, television the media were all controlled by the state. Imagine a debate with no rebuttal or counter point?

Capitalism takes time especially when you have never taken time or interest in your peoples
imagination or inventivness. For 50 years Russia perfected weapons but never designed or thought about the toaster or television. So when the system failed it failed completely because there was no no consumer product back up.

That's MHO
Hope that somewhat answers your question

[MyView]

Mad dog,

I am sorry I dont understand your answer, as the communist party in russia was voted into office by Russia people.

Boris Yeltsin who was favored by West was basically kicked out of office by Russia people.

In the recent selection, the candidate from communist party got 80% of votes.

Mad Dog wrote:

......
Music, News, television the media were all controlled by the state. Imagine a debate with no rebuttal or counter point?
.....

Actually, there are lot of debates in China.

Bofore the construction of 3 gorge dam, there was a huge OPEN debate within China about whether it should be built.

Maybe you heard of "southern tour" by Deng xiaoping in 1992, it was about whether China had opend too much or if China should continue the openness to west, and majority of communist party memebers supported Deng's policy.

Do you know Wen JiaBao went to Tienanmen square in 1989 demonstration? there is no way that he was "selected" by Jiang Zemin. Though Wen was not voted in by billions of people, but he was obviously favored by majority of the party members.

The big difference of government now from what it was 30 years ago is that its policy is not decided by one person, 10,000+ well educated people make the final decisions for China.

This government is certainly not as good as as west at tolerating criticism, but it is very open-minded to the debate of HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER or HOW TO MAKE MOST PEOPLE HAPPY, which is crucial in a developing country. As China is one party system, if 70% of people favor a proposal, it can be carried out.

Although there are also such debates in west like gun control, it rarely leads to any real solution as the government has to respect the right of every individual; even a proposal with 90% favor will not be carried out.

So in China, there are some people whose rights are offended. For example, some people were forced to give up the land for the infrastructure construction. Are they mistreated ? probably. but did chinese government have other choice? no, unless everybody stayed poor.

[MyView]

My point is while west people focus on if they are entitled to know the problem, they didnt pay attention to if the problem can be solved with the system.

Like, there is big difference between "you have the right to vote." and " your vote will count.".

and those 10,000+ people who make final decisions for China, usually they dont benefit direcly from the decision, so why they truely represent the interest of provinces and groups they represnt.

[Mad Dog]

MyView

I concur you make very good points.
I guess it could be said then that the Chinese govt is not very receptive to public criticism?
Both internally and externally.

VR/
Maddog

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

MyView wrote:

Mad dog,
I am sorry I dont understand your answer, as the communist party in russia was voted into office by Russia people.

I don't understand you at all. The Communist Party got about 13% of the vote. It was not voted into power. I don't know where you read your news, but it certainly can't be accurate.

[george]

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:

<quoted text>
Inspection means little when the inspectors can make a lot of money accepting cash in exchange for turning a blind eye to problems.
What China needs to do is send inspectors from outside the local areas. Inspectors who have no ties or relationships with local construction contractors.

Thank you whiner. It is the first time you are helpful here. I'll put your suggestions to Chinese forum.

[george]

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't understand you at all. The Communist Party got about 13% of the vote. It was not voted into power. I don't know where you read your news, but it certainly can't be accurate.

It is not the name of the party; It IS the people forming the party, man.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Not relevant.

Everyone in Russia used to be communists. Therefore, all parties are communist? Because that is what you are basically saying.

Your logic doesn't make sense.