St. Paul / What's wrong with downtown?

[StPaulNative]

Scott Simon wrote:

The big Kincaid is in Bloomington. The one in St. Paul is like a branch office and the Pazzulana is run by the same people.
Dave is right. If theatres in Oakdale can't draw audience with first-run features and tens of thousands of moviegoers within 5 miles, how in the world can Galtier expect to succeed when customers will need to pay for parking? It's a bad idea, plain and simple.

There are 8000 living in St.Paul, 40,000 + who work there each day and 170,000 within a 3 mile radius. That seems like a lot of people to draw from. Plus it sounds like they will be offering something unique. Time will tell. I for one, hope they succeed.

[Jimhill]

Scott Simon wrote:

I love the way some of the readers here talk about empty surface parking lots as if that is a bad thing. The reason city blocks sit empty is because over time --and it takes lots of time, the city eventually acquires all the pieces of property on a square block so that it can be offered to a big-time developer who has vision AND the financial connections to think big. Those of you from St. Paul wouldn't appreciate this because you haven't seen these kinds of people roaming your streets in a long, long time. Lawson Software and perhaps even Galtier before that (mid 1980's?) were the last NON-governmental developments in Downtown St. Paul of any size and scope. Do you understand how empty surface parking lots are part of the revitalization process? Block E in Mpls. is an example. Many buildings, many parcels. It took the city a long time to acquire and clear. Then it sits as a tempting bit of bait for prospective developers. Finally a deal is done and the surface parking lot becomes a genuine, big-time development complete with a hotel that charges room rates of close to $300 per night. This would not be a Holiday Inn like that across the street from the Xcel Center and next to the new Dorothy Day parking ramp.
So I'd suggest that you drop the cheap shots at surface parking lots because you clearly don't understand their purpose because you haven't seen any serious development in Downtown St. Paul in over 20 years. Adding a beer tapper to an auto parts store on West 7th is not what I would call true, large scale development. But I know it means much to St. Paulites who feel inadequate when these topics are brought up and disseminated by people like me.
I stand my ground. No one in the West, South or North metro areas has any reason to visit Downtown St. Paul unless it is to watch an occasional hockey game or concert. There is NOTHING there that attracts us unless we work for the state government or one of the similar drone/grey/blah companies that are located there. It is a trip to NOWHERE. Light Rail in and out of St. Paul is PRIMARILY to allow St. Paulites the opportunity to ESCAPE to the West. St. Paul is not a destination. There is no DEMAND whether it be for movies or dining or shopping, or banking or entertainment.
I'd like to see the waste stopped and the Light Rail planning yanked from St. Paul and diverted to the University (but not further down University Ave.) and I'd like to see the Mall of America line extended over the Cedar Avenue bridge into Dakota County. This would be better use of Light Rail resources. When it comes to planning the next major line or the next serious expansion of Light Rail, it should be along 394, all the way to downtown Wayzata.
I know, I know. The truth hurts. Being BRUTALLY HONEST is a burden to bare ... or is that bear?

FYI - it's not called honesty when it comes from you; it's called delusion. Too much tequila the other night?

If your logic stood to reason, how do you explain the fact that those surface parking lots have stood there for 50 years since the Gateway Destruction Project, during a time when Minneapolis thought it would be a great idea to bulldoze 40% of its downtown. Some of the most beautiful and architecturally significant buildings were destroyed. A few were replaced with 60s buildings, none of which are in existence any more.

Lileks.com if you don't believe me.

You accuse St Paulites of making weaknesses appear to be strengths, but then you conveniently ignore history and do the same thing for Minneapolis.

[Big deal]

"St Paul is always considered the ritziest place to stay in the Twin Cities."

Your kidding right? You clearly have an inferiority complex or are just ignorant. St. Paul has never been viewed as the better place to stay, under any interpritation.

Just the Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
Hmm, which is why someone is OPENING a theater? Or opening new businesses in US Bank Center? Latest ramp opening was by the Xcel.
I suppose the Republican National Convention is a small local side-show, right?
Or why when the local news was reporting on hotels to be used for the convention, they mentioned St Paul Hotel as the choice hotel, followed by St Paul Hilton, and St Paul Crown Plaza? And after that mentions of hotels out in SHOREVIEW of all places. The Republicans are willing to be bussed out from SHOREVIEW, but yet the report makes no mention of the hotels in Minneapolis.
St Paul is always considered the ritziest place to stay in the Twin Cities.
Or why does St Paul have major motion pictures shot with St Paul as the central location, but not Minneapolis? Mighty Ducks and Prairie Home Companion to name a couple.
You talk about high-end boutiques opening in Minneapolis, and yet a dozen retailers left Minneapolis since December! How do you explain that one away? I work in Minneapolis, and haven't seen any new openings. Meanwhile, St Paul's Town Square which was designed and is roughly similar to Minneapolis City Center has more retailers and larger crowds passing through it. How do you explain that?
Long story short: both downtowns face problems. But the DEMAND IS THERE. The guy is opening a movie theater in Galtier Plaza. You say that opening businesses and movie theaters is demand, but yet you DENY demand when a theater or business actually starts opening there.
Are you ignorant, or are you stupid? I am leaning towards the latter instead of the former at this point.

[Moi]

That would be referring to "The Saint Paul Hotel" on Rice Park. When the big stars come to town, that's where they stay. It's considered one of the country's great hotels.

Nothing in Minneapolis comes close, not even Graves 601 which promises a first class experience but fails to deliver one.

[Scott Simon]

I do agree that Minneapolis was pre-mature in taking down several of their buildings. Some are missed and could have been revitalized. But of course others were junk and ready to fall down. But your point is understood and I agree with you for the most part.

But despite the clearing of land, there is a sense of progress in Minneapolis and no such feeling in St. Paul. There has been a crane or two in constant view on the Minneapolis skyline for the past 40 years. Can the same be said for St. Paul? No.

And Moi, yes, the St. Paul Hotel is a lovely place. First class all the way. But there are several excellent hotels of all vintages and ratings in Minneapolis. Most of the rooms are "convention quality" because that is their primary use, but there is diversity and pricing at all levels in Minneapolis. More importantly, there is something to do in Minneapolis on a Saturday. Can the same be said for Downtown St. Paul? No. And aside from the St. Paul Hotel, the other 3 hotels in Downtown St. Paul change their names and franchises more often than most St. Paulites change their socks and underwear. It is unstable and this is never a good sign.

Now to combine both these topics on great old hotels(Moi) with bulldozed buildings(Jimhill), which of these hotels do you miss the most ... Nicollet, Lemington, Curtis or Sheraton Ritz?

[Downtown Resident]

SAINT PAUL LOOSERS STRIKE A POSE

A Resolution Is Adopted Against Republican Governor Calling for Proof that the City of Saint Paul’s Is Unable to Support Itself.

City of Saint Paul, April 11 -- The polititians in this city are not going to be left behind in the march of progress and reform. Righteous indignation surges. A meeting held in the City Council Chambers was attended by the most prominent and influential gaggle of political beggars and business bashers ever before assembled there. After setting forth their wrongs, a resolution to the governor was drafted, condemning his veto of Saint Paul public projects. It was clearly fitting to attack the Governor's misguided conclusion that the City of Saint Paul might possibly survive without these funds.

Am I the only person who finds all of this groveling an embarrassment?

[Reckoner]

I reckon STP is done for until it finds an identity. It's quite the ghost town of the west, even tho it lies east of the river. Having lived here for 6 yrs now, I've noticed the decay spread around areas of DT STP in addition to the further spread of decline inside the city. The city presents itself as foreboding when approaching from the South. It starts with the section of 35E which slows to 45 mph. It grows worse the further you get in with a lack of extended business hours, no real strong retail presence, little to no night life, etc -- all the reasons that have been mentioned thru previous comments. Ghost town streets on weekend with appropriately styled buildings to go along with it. If anything, Hollywood should use DT STP as a movie set for a production backdrop - it nearly looks like an empty studio lot set now.

It's always fun to get asked "So where are you from" in my travels around the U.S. Admission of my residence in STP nearly always draws a reaction from the questioner like "Oh.....ok",--as in--"Oh....ok...the wasteland stinkhole city in MN, got it but I'm too polite to call that out in a short conversation"

It's a response much like you'd expect if you were from Cleveland, Pittsburg, Newark, etc.

[Ronald McDonald]

Two choices for St. Paul:

1. Boot out the current City Council, the mayor, and their cronies; or

2. Give it up to the Asians, rename it St. Laos and leave town. At least then the city will be run efficiently with dignity.

[Doinny]

Why can't we call them like they are?

Beigetownhouseville (not to be confused with Taupetownhouseville)

Left City

Right City

Center City

Mexicanopolis

Asian Acres

Homosexual Heights

Fundementalist Town

East African Village

West Afrivan Village

South African Village

Central African Village

SUV City

Treehugger Heights

Greed City

Methtown

oh, Atlas, where art thou?

[Super Wayne]

Ronald McDonald wrote:

Two choices for St. Paul:
1. Boot out the current City Council, the mayor, and their cronies; or
2. Give it up to the Asians, rename it St. Laos and leave town. At least then the city will be run efficiently with dignity.

Can I choose #1?

[Downtown Resident]

Want a good laugh. Check out web page for the Saint Paul Republican City Committee.

http://www.stpaulgop.com/index.php/Main_Page

They have a calandar of events. It is blank for every month through the end of 2008, including September, when the Republican National Convention will be in town.

Boot out the current administration, et al, LOL. The DFL would just foist another gang of mindless autotrons into their positions. In STP, the DFL could put John Wayne Gacy up for office and he would be elected. How about this for a slogan - "I cannot be worse than you got, I'm dead!"

[Red Ryder]

"What's wrong with downtown"?:

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_916499...

[Reckoner]

Red Ryder wrote:

"What's wrong with downtown"?:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_916499...

Classic. A world class team of buffoons who couldn't budget their way out of a wet paper back if their lives depended on it. Raise my taxes once - shame on you. Raise my taxes twice - shame on me. Raise my taxes a third time? F You...back to a s'burbs...