St. Paul / What's wrong with downtown?

[Super Wayne]

Master of Clowny wrote:

<quoted text>
Why don't you ask Clowny the Coward - he certainly seems like the type? Are you looking to form a club with him?
Ask C

Still waiting....

[Two Words]

Free parking. After 5 pm on weekdays and Saturday/Sunday all day.

And some of that free parking needs to extend to the empty parking garages (or at least have agreement with downtown businesses for $2.00 parking after 5 pm).

[Master of Clowny]

Super Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Still waiting....

What are you waiting for, Clowny? A better head rug?

[Master of Clowny]

Two Words wrote:

Free parking. After 5 pm on weekdays and Saturday/Sunday all day.

Street parking is already free after 4:30 Mon-Sat and all day Sunday. Meters in the surrounding blocks of the Farmer's Market are free for 2 hours on Saturday morning.

[STPer]

The real problem with downtown St. Paul is that the city lacks vision. They just kind of putter along and sort of maintain it, but they have no goal for where it is headed and no willingness to let private parties take risks....

[St Paulite]

It is totally bizarre the law enforcement conditions in both downtowns. The ticket-meter-checking license regristration police are like "Big Brother" while panhandlers,loiterers, and crooks aren't even noticed. Since Minnesota people are especially irritated by loitering panhandling and harassment, no wonder both cities are declining. If they would just clean up these cities with resolve they would get a revival.
If you asked I bet most people would rather spend their time with shopping and entertainment in the suburbs where parking is free, you don't have to worry about getting attacked by thugs, "Big Brother" isn't waiting to haul your car away to the impound lot, you can find a free restroom to use instead of encountering locked up buildings at every turn, and people will actually help you if you are lost or have a problem.

[Josh V]

RememberWHEN wrote:

Suggestions:
1.Movie Theatre
2.Target (or something similar)
3.A Lowertown Bar/Restaurant for happy hour (maybe some dj music for dancing) Remember the Heartthrob Cafe? How about OTTO's!!! What fun memories!
4.Bring back TOWN SQUARE PARK - Fountains, relaxation, proms, etc.
5.Dollar Store
6.Cafeteria style restaurant
7.Culvers
8.Bakers Square, Perkins, Denny's or IHOP (Some type of family sit down restaurant
9.Stores to by clothes, not just 'Lobby Shops'
10.Get rid of the 'rif-raff'

You can't have a dollar store without 'rif-raff.' The two go hand-in-hand.

[Josh V]

Master of Clowny wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh Clowny - just can't stop lying, can you? We debated a topic, and when I presented irrefutable facts that shredded your assertion, you got extremely nasty. You also preceded that with plenty of insults (eg, the "pansy" remark). I'm not going to belabor this. I deemed you "Clowny" because I gave you a chance to live by the "I'm here to learn" lie, and since you just went into insult tirades and general trolling, I no longer feel obligated to do anything but mock you.
You're a tough talking Internet wuss. Nothing more. If I challenged you to meet me in person to show me what a "pansy" I am and how I'm just a "zit faced teenager living in a basement", you'd shrink up your little member and run away - just like you do in a debate. You are both a physical and intellectual coward, and as I said, this is why you act like a Clowny and are all alone at the age of 35.
Your future looks grim, Clowny. I wonder if you'll ever learn.

You are the laughing stock of anything read on any of the twincities.com forums. You have had some (although not many) good points, and I'm not necessarily doubting your intelligence, but you are the most smug, arrogant, know-it-all, small-minded person who has written anything on this forum. I have met many people with attitudes like you, and I can GUARANTEE without knowing you that you have very few friends, have no life, people pretend to like you that you are forced to be in contact with, but they talk S**t about you as soon as you turn your back, your co-workers hate you (if you're employed) because you're and arrogant prick who always claims to be right and can't accept being wrong, and you act about 1/4 your age, whatever age that might be.

Of all of the forums I have read, if there is an insult war, you've started it. Hands down. Re-read your posts. You are the poster child for a troll, along with that psycho Mary who occasionally posts. Do you live with Mary?

Some of your posts lead me to believe that you're a well-educated person, but then I read the ones where you act live a complete child, and I lose that thought quickly.

[Master of Clowny]

Josh V wrote:

<quoted text>
You are the laughing stock of anything read on any of the twincities.com forums.

Well, I knew you'd turn ugly eventually. My apologies for treating you with civility.

[Super Wayne]

Master of Clowny wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I knew you'd turn ugly eventually. My apologies for treating you with civility.

You could turn Mother Theresa ugly.... Im still waiting. You even mention that your all in yet.... nothing. You fraud

[ColdRedRain]

">Hmm, which is why someone is OPENING a theater? Or opening new businesses in US Bank Center? Latest ramp opening was by the Xcel.

Devil's advocate alert*

Somebody opened up a neighborhood candy store on Lake Street and 17th in Minneapolis. It lasted all of 8 months. Kids either don't live there or are afraid to get shot over there.

>I suppose the Republican National Convention is a small local side-show, right?

A good start to the the long awaited development that should have went into STP.

>Or why when the local news was reporting on hotels to be used for the convention, they mentioned St Paul Hotel as the choice hotel, followed by St Paul Hilton, and St Paul Crown Plaza?

The same reason why if you stay in Rochester for any events, you usually stay at the Kahler and the Holiday Inn and not at the Comfort Suite inn right by the bluffs.

>And after that mentions of hotels out in SHOREVIEW of all places. The Republicans are willing to be bussed out from SHOREVIEW, but yet the report makes no mention of the hotels in Minneapolis.

>St Paul is always considered the ritziest place to stay in the Twin Cities.

Hahah! Most of my friends from out of state think STP looks seedy and underdeveloped.

>Or why does St Paul have major motion pictures shot with St Paul as the central location, but not Minneapolis? Mighty Ducks and Prairie Home Companion to name a couple.

They always claim the movies to be filmed in "Minneapolis" because nobody knows of STP in the country or the world.

>You talk about high-end boutiques opening in Minneapolis, and yet a dozen retailers left Minneapolis since December! How do you explain that one away? I work in Minneapolis, and haven't seen any new openings.

They're being thrown out so they could regentrify DT. Meanwhile, nothing like that's ever happened in STP.

>Meanwhile, St Paul's Town Square which was designed and is roughly similar to Minneapolis City Center has more retailers and larger crowds passing through it. How do you explain that?

City Center is a death trap, that's why.

>Long story short: both downtowns face problems. But the DEMAND IS THERE. The guy is opening a movie theater in Galtier Plaza. You say that opening businesses and movie theaters is demand, but yet you DENY demand when a theater or business actually starts opening there.

DT STP needs to reinvent itself. A simple movie theater isn't just going to do it. They need more national attractions. Maybe if this movie theater had a national film festival or something, then it might attract more national attention.

>Are you ignorant, or are you stupid? I am leaning towards the latter instead of the former at this point."

Glass house, stones, don't do it, you know the drill.

[ColdRedRain]

Why are you even paying attention to this troll? I gave up on him a long time ago.

[Scott Simon]

Moi wrote:

<quoted text>
Minneapolis sold out before St Paul for an event that is being held IN ST PAUL? Then why is the Republican candidate for President staying IN ST PAUL?

ANSWER: Because he is senile and frail. Many doubt that he could sustain the daily trek to and from Downtown Minneapolis. Too bad the Light Rail Train to Nowhere isn't already up and running except that he would have to make at least three stops in Hmongtown on University Avenue where he might have flashbacks that he was still being held in the P.O.W. camp in Vietnam.

You continue to set'em up and I'll deliver the punchline. Thanks for your help.

BTW, most of the major hospitality events will be held in downtown Minneapolis and at the Mall of America. I have heard that Anheiser Busch has leased McGowen's for the run of the convention. Senator McCain's wife made her fortune as a member of the family that owned the Budweiser franchise in the Arizona desert. The Busch family wants to stay close to the Xcel Center.

Another goal of mine is to educate as well as entertain. I can't fulfill my duty if all I do is be BRUTALLY HONEST. I must do it with a style and in a way that makes whatever is posted by others look incredibly lacking in content or honesty. How am I doing so far?

What happened to answers about West Publishing and USPS moving to Eagan and Fhima closing and no Target store; pending shutdown of Ford plant and on and on and on? And seriously, where are these 20+ hotels? You're not counting the rusty ethanol tank on West 7th as a hotel are you? That was another great idea by the DFL leadership in St. Paul. Have any lobbyists rented the circus school tent in Highland Park to host an event during the Republican Convention? Better get your make-up on clowny. Clearly, many are jumping off the USS St. Paul but nevertheless, you sure Be Prepared!

[Johnny Boy]

Josh V wrote:

<quoted text>
You can't have a dollar store without 'rif-raff.' The two go hand-in-hand.

You beat me to the punch. But if the bums are going to drink their mouthwash downtown, they might as well buy it there and support the local economy.

[Brutally Honest]

Scott, you ask how you are doing? Well, to use your words, I'll be BRUTALLY HONEST. After reading your posts on several forums, I'd have to say you are the meanest person I have ever come in contact with. It is one thing to respectfully debate and quite another to be down right cruel. It is as if anyone who may be different from you or have an opinion different from yours deserves to be hated and ridiculed. Some of your posts are so mean spirited they make me physically ill. Please, tone it down and stick to debating the issues. What ever happened to Minnesota Nice??

[ColdRedRain]

Brutally Honest wrote:

Scott, you ask how you are doing? Well, to use your words, I'll be BRUTALLY HONEST. After reading your posts on several forums, I'd have to say you are the meanest person I have ever come in contact with. It is one thing to respectfully debate and quite another to be down right cruel. It is as if anyone who may be different from you or have an opinion different from yours deserves to be hated and ridiculed. Some of your posts are so mean spirited they make me physically ill. Please, tone it down and stick to debating the issues. What ever happened to Minnesota Nice??

Here, just for you.

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[Jimhill]

Scott Simon wrote:

<quoted text>
You continue to set'em up and I'll deliver the punchline. Thanks for your help.

Don't get too full of yourself there buckaroo.

All you are doing here is picking fights with anyone who argues with your admitted 1970s view of downtown St Paul, around the time when Mary Tyler Moore threw her hat in the air in from of Donaldson's.

Oh wait, Minneapolis incompetence allowed thugs to torch it, go bankrupt from City Center, and disappear off the map.

Wait a sec, is there even a downtown there in Minneapolis? Looks a lot like surface parking lots with a building here or there. It feels like a warzone -- and looks like Europe during WWII.

[Scott Simon]

I love the way some of the readers here talk about empty surface parking lots as if that is a bad thing. The reason city blocks sit empty is because over time --and it takes lots of time, the city eventually acquires all the pieces of property on a square block so that it can be offered to a big-time developer who has vision AND the financial connections to think big. Those of you from St. Paul wouldn't appreciate this because you haven't seen these kinds of people roaming your streets in a long, long time. Lawson Software and perhaps even Galtier before that (mid 1980's?) were the last NON-governmental developments in Downtown St. Paul of any size and scope. Do you understand how empty surface parking lots are part of the revitalization process? Block E in Mpls. is an example. Many buildings, many parcels. It took the city a long time to acquire and clear. Then it sits as a tempting bit of bait for prospective developers. Finally a deal is done and the surface parking lot becomes a genuine, big-time development complete with a hotel that charges room rates of close to $300 per night. This would not be a Holiday Inn like that across the street from the Xcel Center and next to the new Dorothy Day parking ramp.

So I'd suggest that you drop the cheap shots at surface parking lots because you clearly don't understand their purpose because you haven't seen any serious development in Downtown St. Paul in over 20 years. Adding a beer tapper to an auto parts store on West 7th is not what I would call true, large scale development. But I know it means much to St. Paulites who feel inadequate when these topics are brought up and disseminated by people like me.

I stand my ground. No one in the West, South or North metro areas has any reason to visit Downtown St. Paul unless it is to watch an occasional hockey game or concert. There is NOTHING there that attracts us unless we work for the state government or one of the similar drone/grey/blah companies that are located there. It is a trip to NOWHERE. Light Rail in and out of St. Paul is PRIMARILY to allow St. Paulites the opportunity to ESCAPE to the West. St. Paul is not a destination. There is no DEMAND whether it be for movies or dining or shopping, or banking or entertainment.

I'd like to see the waste stopped and the Light Rail planning yanked from St. Paul and diverted to the University (but not further down University Ave.) and I'd like to see the Mall of America line extended over the Cedar Avenue bridge into Dakota County. This would be better use of Light Rail resources. When it comes to planning the next major line or the next serious expansion of Light Rail, it should be along 394, all the way to downtown Wayzata.

I know, I know. The truth hurts. Being BRUTALLY HONEST is a burden to bare ... or is that bear?

[dave st paul]

There still some good resturants in St Paul that no other suburbs dont have pazzulana,Kincaid,M cafe,Mirtage ,Sakaura, etc.

Oakdale has 36 screens with a pop of 25000 many of the screens are showing movies with many empty auditorium even weekends.So much for demand Dt has 80000 ,do the math

[Scott Simon]

The big Kincaid is in Bloomington. The one in St. Paul is like a branch office and the Pazzulana is run by the same people.

Dave is right. If theatres in Oakdale can't draw audience with first-run features and tens of thousands of moviegoers within 5 miles, how in the world can Galtier expect to succeed when customers will need to pay for parking? It's a bad idea, plain and simple.