CEO George David Will Pass Top UTC Job To Successor -- Layoffs ...

[Lucas]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
If so, why are you the rank and file while he's the CEO?

Because if everybody was a coyote we would be dead as a country, coyote.
Isn't your master calling?

[Captian Obvious]

[quote]As far as globalization goes, explain how anyone in America is a victim?[/quote]

I think The Fixer makes a good point. Here's your list of victims, Zanzibar:

#1:
Ok, so jobs that were being done by US americans get moved elsewhere at extremely cut rate prices.

Those US americans were doing their jobs, they were just expecting to be paid a fair, living wage.

Now they're unemployed getting paid nothing.

Victims #1.

#2: The money that's "saved" by moving the jobs elsewhere isn't reflected in the price of the goods or services now being charged, in fact typically prices increase after such a large move.

Now the consumer has received zero benefit, and as we can show through numerous examples quality and safety usually drops when these cut rate employees take over.

Consumers are victim #2.

#3: A significant portion that 'saved' expenditure ends up directly in the pockets of the deal makers, through bonuses, back alley deal making, kick backs, sky rocketing executive salaries, etc. instead of being allowed to go to the company bottom line AND STAY THERE for the use of business, or possibly distributed in an increased dividend.

The stock holders are victims #3.

#4: Now that all this money has centralized into fewer hands, and there's less money being paid locally to the previous workers, and there's less money being used to build the business or being paid back to the stock holders, that in turn means less tax revenue. That's federal, state, and local taxes, which means OTHER taxes and fees will have to be increased.

Victims 4 and 5: The various government agencies depending on that tax income and the tax payer who ends up getting hit with a greater portion of the tax burden due to the income shift.

Pull your head out of your own wallet, look around and see the detrimental affects that occur to the average US american.

Most of us are very hard working. I've yet to hear of any free nation that allows as little vacation time, or takes as little of the allowed vacations as we do.

We bust are busting our asses, and yeah, we do expect to receive a FAIR share of our efforts.

There's not ONE "explative" person working for a coporation that deserves a SALARY one hundred times that of the average employee. I don't care how smart you or that person thinks he is.

If a person is part of a corporation, even at the top of the corporation, the money earned by that corporation is the result of EVERYONE's efforts, and not one person should recieve the vast, VAST majority of the 'rewards'. It SHOULD be distributed evenly amongst those putting forth the efforts to make that kind of potential salary possible. Unfortunately it's not, and what's worse if/when ALL the jobs are moved off shore, is the executive's salary going to be reduced to be commiserate with the location of the vast majority of workers in the new location?

Hell no. His salary will go up, such that his salary is now 100,000 or even 1,000,000 times that of the average worker.

Even giving capatilism its due, even paying homage to a person's intelligence, or more probably luck, in helping a business turn a profit, there is absolutely NO possible way any single person in a corporation DESERVES that much money.

Period.

[Theodore Nugent]

Nice to see you have a warm, fuzzy sense of humor, you stool sample.

[Theodore Nugent]

That previous post is directed to Zanzibar, the Silver City Stool Sample, in case anyone cares.

;-)

[Theodore Nugent]

Captian Obvious wrote:

[quote]As far as globalization goes, explain how anyone in America is a victim?[/quote]
I think The Fixer makes a good point. Here's your list of victims, Zanzibar:
#1:
Ok, so jobs that were being done by US americans get moved elsewhere at extremely cut rate prices.
Those US americans were doing their jobs, they were just expecting to be paid a fair, living wage.
Now they're unemployed getting paid nothing.
Victims #1.
#2: The money that's "saved" by moving the jobs elsewhere isn't reflected in the price of the goods or services now being charged, in fact typically prices increase after such a large move.
Now the consumer has received zero benefit, and as we can show through numerous examples quality and safety usually drops when these cut rate employees take over.
Consumers are victim #2.
#3: A significant portion that 'saved' expenditure ends up directly in the pockets of the deal makers, through bonuses, back alley deal making, kick backs, sky rocketing executive salaries, etc. instead of being allowed to go to the company bottom line AND STAY THERE for the use of business, or possibly distributed in an increased dividend.
The stock holders are victims #3.
#4: Now that all this money has centralized into fewer hands, and there's less money being paid locally to the previous workers, and there's less money being used to build the business or being paid back to the stock holders, that in turn means less tax revenue. That's federal, state, and local taxes, which means OTHER taxes and fees will have to be increased.
Victims 4 and 5: The various government agencies depending on that tax income and the tax payer who ends up getting hit with a greater portion of the tax burden due to the income shift.
Pull your head out of your own wallet, look around and see the detrimental affects that occur to the average US american.
Most of us are very hard working. I've yet to hear of any free nation that allows as little vacation time, or takes as little of the allowed vacations as we do.
We bust are busting our asses, and yeah, we do expect to receive a FAIR share of our efforts.
There's not ONE "explative" person working for a coporation that deserves a SALARY one hundred times that of the average employee. I don't care how smart you or that person thinks he is.
If a person is part of a corporation, even at the top of the corporation, the money earned by that corporation is the result of EVERYONE's efforts, and not one person should recieve the vast, VAST majority of the 'rewards'. It SHOULD be distributed evenly amongst those putting forth the efforts to make that kind of potential salary possible. Unfortunately it's not, and what's worse if/when ALL the jobs are moved off shore, is the executive's salary going to be reduced to be commiserate with the location of the vast majority of workers in the new location?
Hell no. His salary will go up, such that his salary is now 100,000 or even 1,000,000 times that of the average worker.
Even giving capatilism its due, even paying homage to a person's intelligence, or more probably luck, in helping a business turn a profit, there is absolutely NO possible way any single person in a corporation DESERVES that much money.
Period.

Now, that's a detailed, valid, fact-based opinion.

My hat's off to you, Captain.

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

Lucas wrote:

<quoted text>
Because if everybody was a coyote we would be dead as a country, coyote.
Isn't your master calling?

Are you a crazy person?

Also, when you say rank and file, do you mean that you're a VP, or you're a blue collar worker? Because if it's the former, you might have an argument (albeit a losing one). But if you're the latter, then you're argument is nothing more than marxist drivel.

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

Theodore Nugent wrote:

<quoted text>
Now, that's a detailed, valid, fact-based opinion.
My hat's off to you, Captain.

Fact based?

For those of you who feel victimized by losing your jobs, maybe you should have recognized that your jobs weren't going to be around forever. Why is that not your fault? Why are others to blame?

As for prices, you're just plain wrong. The cost of labor and production has a direct impact on the price of goods. Always.

As for the stockholders, they're more than welcome to purchase other stocks. They're also more than welcome to affect change through their voting rights.

Finally, the only "victims" are the ones who let themselves be victims. For the rest of us, we learned a long time ago that we're responsible for ourselves.

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

Theodore Nugent wrote:

That previous post is directed to Zanzibar, the Silver City Stool Sample, in case anyone cares.
;-)

Just out of curiousity, do you even know why you believe what you believe? Or are you just another idiot who rails against everything that he can't understand?

[Theodore Nugent]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
Just out of curiousity, do you even know why you believe what you believe? Or are you just another idiot who rails against everything that he can't understand?

I do believe, that, you, Zanzibar, are a stool sample.

I do believe that the elitist of the country have sold their fellow "hard-working" men and women down the river (maybe you should take a canoe ride down the Quinnipiac while you're at it—start at Red Bridge).

I do believe that there's no such thing as honesty, integrity, and loyalty left in this country.

I do believe that individuals such as Ken Lay (coward), Bernie Ebbers (coward), Dennis Kozlowski (coward), etc., etc. are/were nothing but selfish, demonic cockroaches in nice suits.

Any more questions, idiot?

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

Theodore Nugent wrote:

<quoted text>
I do believe, that, you, Zanzibar, are a stool sample.
I do believe that the elitist of the country have sold their fellow "hard-working" men and women down the river (maybe you should take a canoe ride down the Quinnipiac while you're at it—start at Red Bridge).
I do believe that there's no such thing as honesty, integrity, and loyalty left in this country.
I do believe that individuals such as Ken Lay (coward), Bernie Ebbers (coward), Dennis Kozlowski (coward), etc., etc. are/were nothing but selfish, demonic cockroaches in nice suits.
Any more questions, idiot?

So you believe that criminals are criminals. Wow. That's radical.

As for the rest of what you believe, you failed to explain why you think it's dishonest to make money. I guess you think that if you're not smart enough to succeed, then others should fail as well.

[Howie Mandell]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
So you believe that criminals are criminals. Wow. That's radical.
As for the rest of what you believe, you failed to explain why you think it's dishonest to make money. I guess you think that if you're not smart enough to succeed, then others should fail as well.

Blah, blah, blah, Zanzibar. More useless drivel.

You don't get do you. I never said it was "dishonest" to make money. Those individuals/criminals quoted did so at the expense of THEIR EMPLOYEES—people they hired/entrusted to make their respective companies successful.

Then they bit the greed-bullet, and said the hell with everyone else.

What part of that DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

You must enjoy "trying" to be mister smartie on these blogs. But, it's not working. Trust me.

Remember, there will always someone else out there that's smarter than you...probably reading this blog, for all you know.

Or, better yet, looking over your shoulder as you type away.

[The Fixer]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
Fact based?
For those of you who feel victimized by losing your jobs, maybe you should have recognized that your jobs weren't going to be around forever. Why is that not your fault? Why are others to blame?

First off, hats off to Captain Obvious for 'getting it'.

While I have no specific first hand knowledge of the process at UTC, I have been in my fair share of similar circumstances. In all instances, when I've 'taken personal responsibility' and made it a point to directly asked the executives at the companies where I worked whether or not I should start looking for another job, the responses were the same, "Oh no, just keep working hard and we'll get through this, you'll see! We might have to tighten our belts a bit but we'll make it."

Then two weeks later me and a number of fellow employees get pulled into a private meeting where we learn we're no longer employed due to cut backs.

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>As for prices, you're just plain wrong. The cost of labor and production has a direct impact on the price of goods. Always.

Then how come, as the Captain pointed out, when they start saving on their cost of labor, those "cost savings" aren't passed along to the consumer?

I've never seen the price of goods or services from a company that's recently laid off its 'expensive' workforce in favor of establishing a 'cheaper' workforce, go down.

They've always, ALWAYS increased.

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
As for the stockholders, they're more than welcome to purchase other stocks. They're also more than welcome to affect change through their voting rights.

Perhaps you have a point there, but how can you justify taking money that would be much better used for the building of the business, or rewarding the investors so that THEY can perhaps invest in OTHER businesses, and sticking into the salary of the few elite executives that just happened to be at the top of the company management structure?

How is that justified?

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
Finally, the only "victims" are the ones who let themselves be victims. For the rest of us, we learned a long time ago that we're responsible for ourselves.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, is it Zanzibar? You can be a victim through absolutely no fault of your own, even when you make an honest effort at avoiding being one.

Not everything that happens to you is your responsibility, as much as the tort system would like to convince us that "perhaps we shouldn't have been driving down the road where the bridge that collapsed on us existed, so you share some blame in the matter too", the same sort of thing here applies.

If the information neccessary to make the needed decisions was freely available, and the big fat golden parachutes were available equally, and the overly grandiose paychecks were also equally distributed, perhaps THEN we americans could share some culpability. But really, mostly we don't have that kind of control on average, we really don't, and if you believe we do then you're obviously not in the same tax bracket as the rest of us, or you're seriously fooling yourself.

[lucas]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
So you believe that criminals are criminals. Wow. That's radical.
As for the rest of what you believe, you failed to explain why you think it's dishonest to make money. I guess you think that if you're not smart enough to succeed, then others should fail as well.

What the hell do you do for a living? I'll bet you make those little oval gold stickers that say "Made in China". If you're smart enough to do that.

You've got a big mouth, a small one track brain and your business ethic is that of an egg-sucking coyote.

Go back to wetting the bed.

[UTC Smarty Pants]

Well, any company with a website like this, cannot be good for employees! utc-suicide.com

[Jef H]

Sure wrote:

Move more American jobs overseas and avoid more US taxes. Great for shareholders. Doom for America. More hard times for USA.

You can thank liberals for driving jobs overseas, with high taxes, union labor, and high minimum wages. Simple economics, really.

[The Fixer]

I don't neccessarily blame only the liberals though. Honestly if a company moves jobs from the US, they should be penalized an additional and proportional "import tarriff" for all the goods/services that end up being brought in from over seas.

The only way to eliminate the that "import tarriff" would be to, of course, bring jobs INTO the US.

Likewise, companies that use H1B Visa and such personnel should also pay an "import tarriff" on the goods and services the non-citicenz are producing in the US.

Again, if they don't pay they don't get to sell their goods or services in the US, STILL one of the best markets on the planet.

Apply it evenly to all companies trying to business in the US, foriegn or not, and the objection to being 'unable to compete' no longer factors into it.

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

The Fixer wrote:

I don't neccessarily blame only the liberals though. Honestly if a company moves jobs from the US, they should be penalized an additional and proportional "import tarriff" for all the goods/services that end up being brought in from over seas.
The only way to eliminate the that "import tarriff" would be to, of course, bring jobs INTO the US.
Likewise, companies that use H1B Visa and such personnel should also pay an "import tarriff" on the goods and services the non-citicenz are producing in the US.
Again, if they don't pay they don't get to sell their goods or services in the US, STILL one of the best markets on the planet.
Apply it evenly to all companies trying to business in the US, foriegn or not, and the objection to being 'unable to compete' no longer factors into it.

That's just what we want. I'm sure it won't set off a wave of protectionist legislation by other countries.

[Ed M]

Chris M wrote:

I, too, am a UTC engineer, and starkly contrast Lucas' viewpoint.
David is (was) CEO of a huge multinational, so of course he's going to make millions. But compare his compensation with what his peers got, and he's a bargain.
As far as "all those workers" earning David his pay... please. Walk through the shop and all I see are fat union slobs complaining about all the things they don't get instead of shutting their mouths and WORKING! Maybe if Parent and his crew could figure that out UTC would stop shipping their $35/hour jobs elsewhere. Gone are the days where simply putting your time in is enough. We live in a global economy folks - of course David's going to be focused on delivering shareholder value - that's his job! And oh BTW - every union worker's 401k and pension are now beefed up by David's 800% increase in revenues. But of course - that's not enough, either. It's always about how the company screwed you... what a sorry, miserable existence you people live. Try taking a little responsibility for your own futures instead of blaming everyone else.

LMFAO! Chris M hit the nail right on the head!

The rest of you socialists and pathetic whiners can all go screw yourselves.

By the way, often times UTC's customers DEMAND a "piece of the action" meaning that when an airline says "Okay, I'll buy those 100 Boeing 747's with Pratt engines ONLY IF you agree to manufacture 30% of those engine parts in my country. If you don't find those terms acceptable, GE and Rolls Royce will."

So shut your pathetic whiny, protectionist, "how dare you out source" ignorant, stupid mouths, okay?

Oh and if you work for UTC and you want to whine and pis and moan, then shut your mouths, get back to work and if you feel so damned abused by the company then go get another job. Odds are you won't find as good of a deal as you have at UTC.

[Ed M]

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate wrote:

<quoted text>
That's just what we want. I'm sure it won't set off a wave of protectionist legislation by other countries.

You may as well just give up trying to deal with these illiterate morons Zanzibar. They're stupid, jealous, whiny, selfish pigs that think the world OWES THEM, just like almost all Democrats. They will never "get it." We'd have better luck talking to brick walls. I do thank you very much for your posts and insight.

[Vote Stamford for Capital]

Ed M wrote:

<quoted text>
You may as well just give up trying to deal with these illiterate morons Zanzibar. They're stupid, jealous, whiny, selfish pigs that think the world OWES THEM, just like almost all Democrats. They will never "get it." We'd have better luck talking to brick walls. I do thank you very much for your posts and insight.

I second that. People need to understand that the U.S. has adopted a capitalist system, and thus far, has worked pretty damn well, don't you think?? It rewards those that work hard and have ambition AND it's generous enough to give handouts to all you lazy welfare-abusing, food-stamp collecting, unemployed scum. Hats off to Mr. David. Turning a $6 billion market cap into $65 billion and increasing earnings 800% is no easy task at any corporation, nevermind a multinational conglomerate as complex as UTC. So for all of you whiners, you should have paid more attention in Economics class, that is, if you took an Economics class, or went to college, or have a job...you get my point....